Waqar Younis blames the mindset of India when it comes to pace

[Suhaan]

Just now, singhvivek141 said:

You don't care about articles, but you care about this 1993 stamp where it's nowhere mentioned what speedometer was used and what was it's accuracy.
Speedometers were unreliable and no knows how accurately they're calculated. When the speedometer became a trend with regularity, Srinath beat Waqar and that's the truth.

Waqar was borderline fast medium, that's it His deliveries never rushed batsmen

 

[singhvivek141]

There is myth in Pakistan that Waqar was a 155k bowler in his early days, that illusion comes mostly due to his banana swing (whatever maybe the reason) which foxed the batters out.
Waqar was a 135-142 kph bowler with max around 145-146...in 2003 WC at age of 32 he was a 132-138 kph bowler with ceiling at 142. 
Wasim was in 132-138 range with max around 142-143...in 2003 WC he was operating at 130-136 with peak speed around 138-139.

Accepting the truth isn't gonna diminish their stature as a bowler.

[Mesky99]

2 hours ago, the don said:

Never said he wasnt quick but he has never been clocked over 150 kph.

He has, once in 1996 tour of south Africa and the other time in the 1999 world cup against aus, the delivery  was clocked as the second fastest in the world cup, waqar was never clocked 150kph in any live telecast matches neither was wasim, fake hyperbole of Pak fast pacers in the 90s is some sort of mythology, bar akthar, Sami and now rauf Pak have never produced quick consistent bowlers, not just Srinath even salil ankola was faster than waqar in his debut series.

[the don]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

There is myth in Pakistan that Waqar was a 155k bowler in his early days, that illusion comes mostly due to his banana swing (whatever maybe the reason) which foxed the batters out.
Waqar was a 135-142 kph bowler with max around 145-146...in 2003 WC at age of 32 he was a 132-138 kph bowler with ceiling at 142. 
Wasim was in 132-138 range with max around 142-143...in 2003 WC he was operating at 130-136 with peak speed around 138-139.

Accepting the truth isn't gonna diminish their stature as a bowler.

I dont know about myth. But waqar clocked over 150 kph in england and southafrica.

Please see this speed gun data from 2002

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

[the don]

23 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

He has, once in 1996 tour of south Africa and the other time in the 1999 world cup against aus, the delivery  was clocked as the second fastest in the world cup, waqar was never clocked 150kph in any live telecast matches neither was wasim, fake hyperbole of Pak fast pacers in the 90s is some sort of mythology, bar akthar, Sami and now rauf Pak have never produced quick consistent bowlers, not just Srinath even salil ankola was faster than waqar in his debut series.

Incorrect.

waqar clocked 150 plus in telecast matches in that tri series vs southafrica and test vs england. Here is ball ttacking data till 2002.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

 

 

[the don]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Regular speed gun readings were available on TV only from the WC 1999.

 

So, how can one find video evidence of 1994 to early 1997, Srinath's quickest period  !!

 

The fact that he clocked 149.x kph  in 1999, after losing pace, just points to the fact that he must have clocked higher speeds in his quickest years. 

 

Another aspect was that Srinath was very bouncy and accurate too.  That adds to the " heat " generated by a pacer.  I would love to have a Srinath bowling for us nowadays when thd support pacers are so much better in tests and ODIs.

Thats true for alot of bowlers including waqar who lost express pace after back injury in 92 and yet more pace in 96. 
 

He was however clocked over 150 kph in televised games. The data for which was published in 2002. The fastest Srinath officially clocked was 149kph.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

[putrevus]

Just now, the don said:

Thats true for alot of bowlers including waqar who lost express pace after back injury in 92 and yet more pace in 96. 
 

He was however clocked over 150 kph in televised games. The data for which was published in 2002. The fastest Srinath officially clocked was 149kph.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

Waqar at his peak was pacier than Srinath. You don't need speed guns for it. Stress fracture robbed some of his speed.Some people here turn 1980s(Holdings ,Roberts) WI bowlers also into medium pacers and those same people turn Ajit Agarkar and Srinath in 150 k bowlers.

 

No need to defend speed of Waqar.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, the don said:

I dont know about myth. But waqar clocked over 150 kph in england and southafrica.

Please see this speed gun data from 2002

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

Is it correct ?...as most of the other data is from 1997-1998 onwards but only one Wasim's data and one of Waqar's are from 1992/1993.
That's not a reliable source, as it don't measure other bowlers at the same time + we don't know if the speed gun was calibrated or just a fantasy number.
This can't be used as a source of truth, authenticity is questionable.

 

• Notes:
  • This list is not a comprehensive database of all such deliveries to have been timed at 140kph or faster. Nor is it official in any capacity. It simply shows which bowlers have broken this barrier on known occasions in international matches. If you are able to supply any substantiable information on deliveries not listed below, please contact Eddie so we can endeavour to make it more complete.
  • Speed measuring devices have only become commonplace at international cricket matches since around 1998. There are few instances where speeds are known authoritatively prior to this.
  • Some speed measuring devices display speeds to the nearest kilometre per hour. These figures appear below with no appended decimal fraction.
  • Some speed measuring devices record in miles per hour. These figures have been converted to kilometres per hour and rounded to the nearest kph.

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Waqar at his peak was pacier than Srinath. You don't need speed guns for it. Stress fracture robbed some of his speed.Some people here turn 1980s(Holdings ,Roberts) WI bowlers also into medium pacers and those same people turn Ajit Agarkar and Srinath in 150 k bowlers.

 

No need to defend speed of Waqar.

Again nothing but a hyperbole, if Waqar lost his pace due to stress facture, so does Srinath due to his rotator cuff injury on his shoulders.
Judge everyone on same parameter instead of weighing bias against one.

No one calls Holdings or Roberts as 130k bowlers, we don't know their accurate pace but they were fast...so was Malcolm Marshall, Lillee and Jeff Thompson. Agarkar was a fast medium with pace in 135-140 range with upper pace at 144 (like Hardik Pandya)...he wasn't a 150kph bowler but Srinath was.

People say what they have seen, no one will call Prabhakar or Venkatesh Prasad as a 140k bowler...they were early 120's to early 130's.

Edited November 15, 2022 by singhvivek141

[the don]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Waqar at his peak was pacier than Srinath. You don't need speed guns for it. Stress fracture robbed some of his speed.Some people here turn 1980s(Holdings ,Roberts) WI bowlers also into medium pacers and those same people turn Ajit Agarkar and Srinath in 150 k bowlers.

 

No need to defend speed of Waqar.

Yes , here is Indias favourite son Tendulkar calling him easily the fastest bowler of that generation along with Devon mlcolm. Sachin even wrote that he had never faced anywhere near that sort of pace in domestics before facing waqar in Pakistan and here we have clown like @Mesky99 claiming that Salil freaking Ankola was faster. Lmao., Total insult to pace bowling fans.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/sachin-tendulkar-waqar-s-bouncer-and-playing-through-pain-defined-me-1229445%3Fplatform%3Damp

[the don]

10 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Is it correct ?...as most of the other data is from 1997-1998 onwards but only one Wasim's data and one of Waqar's are from 1992/1993.
That's not a reliable source, as it don't measure other bowlers at the same time + we don't know if the speed gun was calibrated or just a fantasy number.
This can't be used as a source of truth, authenticity is questionable.

 

• Notes:
  • This list is not a comprehensive database of all such deliveries to have been timed at 140kph or faster. Nor is it official in any capacity. It simply shows which bowlers have broken this barrier on known occasions in international matches. If you are able to supply any substantiable information on deliveries not listed below, please contact Eddie so we can endeavour to make it more complete.
  • Speed measuring devices have only become commonplace at international cricket matches since around 1998. There are few instances where speeds are known authoritatively prior to this.
  • Some speed measuring devices display speeds to the nearest kilometre per hour. These figures appear below with no appended decimal fraction.
  • Some speed measuring devices record in miles per hour. These figures have been converted to kilometres per hour and rounded to the nearest kph.

 

This is as accurate a data as you can find because all these speeds are from televised games The waqar one is from the tri series vs Southafrica and westindies where they had spped guns. Yes people like Sami went on to clock higher speeds post 2002, but anything else is fantasy and hyperbole.

Edited November 15, 2022 by the don

[the don]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Again nothing but a hyperbole, if Waqar lost his pace due to stress facture, so does Srinath due to his rotator cuff injury on his shoulders.
Judge everyone on same parameter instead of weighing bias against one.

No one calls Holdings or Roberts as 130k bowlers, we don't know their accurate pace but they were fast...so was Malcolm Marshall, Lillee and Jeff Thompson. Agarkar was a fast medium with pace in 135-140 range with upper pace at 144 (like Hardik Pandya)...he wasn't a 150kph bowler but Srinath was.

The fastest srinath has ever clocked under official speed readings is 149 kph. For context Shaheen afridi has already clocked 154 kph against Southafrica. Stop calling Srinath a 150 kph bowler.

[singhvivek141]

3 minutes ago, the don said:

The fastest srinath has ever clocked under official speed readings is 149 kph. For context Shaheen afridi has already clocked 154 kph against Southafrica. Stop calling Srinath a 150 kph bowler.

& who told you that Waqar's 153 as given by Mr. Eddie is official ?
Tomorrow I will show you screenshot of Bhuvi bowlng 200 kph in a match, will you accept that you're all bowlers are trundler ?

Srinath beaten Waqar for pace in 2003 ODI WC and data is openly there...I don't know from where Mr. Eddie came up with this fantasy number.

[singhvivek141]

10 minutes ago, the don said:

This is as accurate a data as you can find because all these speeds are from televised games The waqar one is from the tri series vs Southafrica and westindies where they had spped guns. Yes people like Sami went on to clock higher speeds post 2002, but anything else is fantasy and hyperbole.

No proof of that...if that's accurate for you as it's from ESPN cricinfo...then Srinath has bowled 156kph as mentioned in the same website...everything else is just an illusion.

[rkt.india]

16 minutes ago, the don said:

The fastest srinath has ever clocked under official speed readings is 149 kph. For context Shaheen afridi has already clocked 154 kph against Southafrica. Stop calling Srinath a 150 kph bowler.

What's the fastest waqar clocked under the official speed hun? 

[the don]

22 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

What's the fastest waqar clocked under the official speed hun? 

153 kph in the pak, southafrica, west indies tti series in southafrica. 
 

Its on Tv. There is another 150 kph delivery shown on tv from the same series.

[the don]

35 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

& who told you that Waqar's 153 as given by Mr. Eddie is official ?
Tomorrow I will show you screenshot of Bhuvi bowlng 200 kph in a match, will you accept that you're all bowlers are trundler ?

Srinath beaten Waqar for pace in 2003 ODI WC and data is openly there...I don't know from where Mr. Eddie came up with this fantasy number.

Lol. Ab tum nay nahi maana tou woh alag baat hai but that waqar delivery and another 150 kph ball was shown on tv. Hence this data and video grabs. Baaaki even Zahid cloked 164 kph accordinv to articles.

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, the don said:

153 kph in the pak, southafrica, west indies tti series in southafrica. 
 

Its on Tv. There is another 150 kph delivery shown on tv from the same series.

Tbh, I don't think he was fast in 96. Yes was pretty fast in early 90s. He wasn't fast even in 96 world cup.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, the don said:

Thats true for alot of bowlers including waqar who lost express pace after back injury in 92 and yet more pace in 96. 
 

He was however clocked over 150 kph in televised games. The data for which was published in 2002. The fastest Srinath officially clocked was 149kph.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

 

 

I have watched Waqar bowl from his Test one.

 

He was very quick from 1989 to 1993 or 1994.

 

Then I remember thinking from the mid 1990s that Waqar is looking a lot slower. Wasim, due to his height and bounce, looked sharp even when he lost some pace but not the case with Waqar. 

 

Waqar may have been the 2nd quickest among Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib ... but as he was the least bouncy, he looked the most innocuous of the 4 after losing some pace.

 

He probably lost some abity to skid the ball too after back injury. Otherwise, skiddy bowlers look quick.

 

Imran was a hit the deck pacer who depended a lot on bounce and seam movement too and not just swing. Which is why he looked sharp even in in later years.

 

From a bowling point of view, it is not just about bowling top speeds of 150 k. Wasim had hurried batters a lot more than Waqar after both lost pace.

 

 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

17 minutes ago, the don said:

Lol. Ab tum nay nahi maana tou woh alag baat hai but that waqar delivery and another 150 kph ball was shown on tv. Hence this data and video grabs. Baaaki even Zahid cloked 164 kph accordinv to articles.

Can you show me the evidence ?
Zahid can clock 264 kph, that's not the discussion here.
Point here is if in the same website, at one part Srinath's pace is mentioned 156 and Waqar's 153, why we're ignoring one and including other. Unless we have any other evidence, this discussion won't go anywhere.

Secondly, the speed guns before 1996-1997 were sparingy used.....hence there is credibility over the standards...and when speed guns were used commonly, Srinath beat Waqar for pace in 2 tournaments 1999 ODI WC and 2003 ODI WC.