How to fit Ishan Kishan in ODI XI without losing balance ?

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, Lord said:

And how is Iyer gonna help us. We collapse v swing/pace which is his weakness too. You need technically superior batsmen in such situations.

 

Here is another one

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/sri-lanka-in-india-2021-22-1278665/india-vs-sri-lanka-3rd-t20i-1278686/full-scorecard

 

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Here is another one

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/sri-lanka-in-india-2021-22-1278665/india-vs-sri-lanka-3rd-t20i-1278686/full-scorecard

 

 

Where is the collapse?

[Lord]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Situations like this. You can collapse anywhere. But he is probably the most reliable so far. He finds a way to stick around even after collapse. Even during SKY's insane innings he stuck around although couldn't score much.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-tour-of-india-2020-21-1243364/india-vs-england-1st-t20i-1243388/full-scorecard

Wow got us to great score of 124

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

Wow got us to great score of 124

 

How many times others have consistently made runs in recent times. Why do you ignore Iyer's 5 fifties in a row plus 49 in NZ. He was up against Ferguson, Milne. Did not face a single spinner.

[vvvslaxman]

Iyer also made 113 against Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi in India. 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

How many times others have consistently made runs in recent times. Why do you ignore Iyer's 5 fifties in a row plus 49 in NZ. He was up against Ferguson, Milne. Did not face a single spinner.

 

NZ LOI pitches are uber flat,not bouncy plus short grounds. He has failed in Aus and SA.

 

How many ODI games did he win us even in NZ?

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Iyer also made 113 against Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi in India. 

 

In India.

 

SKY did well v same attack in Aus

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

NZ LOI pitches are uber flat,not bouncy plus short grounds. He has failed in Aus and SA.

 

How many ODI games did he win us even in NZ?

 

Uber flat? How? How much others made there? NO pitch was bouncy. Balls were flying keepers head as well. Way faster than BD pitch. SOmehow we point to his dismissal against Bangladesh while ignoring how he handled Ferguson and co iN NZ on a much pacier pitch.  Pant failed in both the matches in NZ?  What does that say about him? Pant averages 12 in NZ. If that is flat he should have scored something right? Pant averages 10 in West indies.  He is averaging 35. He has to get somewhat close to Dhoni to become a specialist bat over others. Even Dhoni rarely played as a specialist batsman.

[vvvslaxman]

I don't mind pant playing. But he should play as a pure keeper. Not as a pure batsman. 

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I don't mind pant playing. But he should play as a pure keeper. Not as a pure batsman. 

 

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Uber flat? How? How much others made there? NO pitch was bouncy. Balls were flying keepers head as well. Way faster than BD pitch. SOmehow we point to his dismissal against Bangladesh while ignoring how he handled Ferguson and co iN NZ on a much pacier pitch.  Pant failed in both the matches in NZ?  What does that say about him? Pant averages 12 in NZ. If that is flat he should have scored something right? Pant averages 10 in West indies.  He is averaging 35. He has to get somewhat close to Dhoni to become a specialist bat over others. Even Dhoni rarely played as a specialist batsman.

Pant will play only as a keeper. Unless Ishan is fixed in opening or Rahul keeps.

 

However we need to use SKY's form.No reason why he can't do it in ODIs.

 

Iyer is too similar in approach to Rohit,Kohli,Rahul.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Pant will play only as a keeper. Unless Ishan is fixed in opening or Rahul keeps.

 

However we need to use SKY's form.No reason why he can't do it in ODIs.

 

Iyer is too similar in approach to Rohit,Kohli,Rahul.

 

India needs accelerators against spin which is what cost us world T20 semi final.  Zampa, Rashid, Santner, Sodhi have all owned us. SKY is one option.  KL Rahul's problem is not  bowling type. It is more situation. He has to be evaluated using a different metric.

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

India needs accelerators against spin which is what cost us world T20 semi final.  Zampa, Rashid, Santner, Sodhi have all owned us. SKY is one option.  KL Rahul's problem is not  bowling type. It is more situation. He has to be evaluated using a different metric.

Iyer is not that great v legspin. Best v offies and finger spin

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

Iyer is not that great v legspin. Best v offies and finger spin

 

Not weak. He is still pretty good. Got dismissed only 3. SR is around 90.  Still he owns Shamsi who is a wristy. Overall reliable spin bully we have while building an innings. I do not trust other guys to take us to safe total from a crisis. They often go missing. Pant even with that 125 not out he is still averaging only 37 this year.  Take that century away his average drops down to 23 for this year.   7 out of 10 innings under 20 runs.  He has to achieve semblance of consistency. India is not England who have incredible batting depth. In India everybody has to be reasonably consistent. SKY is yet to realize his full potential as you have lot more overs to play with.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Not weak. He is still pretty good. Got dismissed only 3. SR is around 90.  Still he owns Shamsi who is a wristy. Overall reliable spin bully we have while building an innings. I do not trust other guys to take us to safe total from a crisis. They often go missing. Pant even with that 125 not out he is still averaging only 37 this year.  Take that century away his average drops down to 23 for this year.   7 out of 10 innings under 20 runs.  He has to achieve semblance of consistency. India is not England who have incredible batting depth. In India everybody has to be reasonably consistent. SKY is yet to realize his full potential as you have lot more overs to play with.

Shamsi also turns the ball into him.

 

SKY hasn't had much opportunity. If its a steep chase, I'd want him instead of anyone.

[vvvslaxman]

[deepdynamo]

Few things have changed since last few days

- Dhawan is no longer in scheme of things
- Pant has a horrific accident so he is out too

So for the top 5 in ODI first XI, we have the following eight candidates.

 

Rohit

Gill

Kohli

Iyer

Rahul

Ishan 

Sky

Samson

Pant* ( subject to injury)

[SRT100]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:43 AM, vvvslaxman said:

Iyer also made 113 against Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi in India. 

See centuries like this is worth like 3 Kohli centuries vs SL.

 

There needs to be a method in given weight of importance of runs against superior bowling attacks and or on challenging surfaces.

 

Lets put the game and the pitch in perspective batting wise, SL scored over 100 for the 10th wicket.

[nevada]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:42 AM, nevada said:

Karun Nair ODI version will be the most likely outcome. 

I KNEW the TM would do this! In the very next game they have done this.The support for KL at the expense of Kishan is nauseating!

[Sooda]

For me, Kishan in for Gill and Kishan keeps. SKY in for KL Rahul: offers much more "oomph" in middle order. I get the argument about KL in ODIs in middle order, but SKY has merited a long run- long overdue

 

It is unfortunate for Gill, but Kishan bats at higher SR

 

Rohit, Kishan, Virat, Iyer, Hardik, SKY 

[putrevus]

The problem with whiteball cricket for India is bowling is so weak that they have never bailed them out even in helpful conditions.

 

Kishen gives leftie option and scores at higher SR, he needs to be given nod over Gill.

Edited January 11, 2023 by putrevus