Is Pant in contention for GWOAT?

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I remember one match vs India where Aus were 99 for 6 but then Gilly and Hayden took Aus to 350+ in a test match.

 

Gilly was still a generational player because his average was in 50s for a while before it went down in later part. Pant has long way to go because when he will have loss of form, that average will go down.

 

 

Pant also hasn't played much in India. So the average should increase first.

 

Ofcourse Gilly would have some rescue acts over a long career. But its common for Pant,hes doing it every 2nd match.

 

Big challenge for Pant would be fitness.

[Laaloo]

Without a doubt

[express bowling]

48 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I remember one match vs India where Aus were 99 for 6 but then Gilly and Hayden took Aus to 350+ in a test match.

 

Gilly was still a generational player because his average was in 50s for a while before it went down in later part. Pant has long way to go because when he will have loss of form, that average will go down.

 

 

Odd instances can always be found.

 

But Pant saving India, in 1 out of 2 tough situations, has become the norm.

 

And this is priceless. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by express bowling

[Vijy]

I would put gilly ahead for now, not because he's "better" (hard to quantify) but because he maintained his excellence over a long period. in the early-to-mid career, there were several counterattacking knocks by gilly in tough situations (e.g., vs Pak with Langoor; vs Ind with Haydos). however, my belief is that if Pant improves fitness and maintains form, he can overtake Gilly.

 

what will, however, be harder to do is overtake ABDV and Andy Flower, especially the latter who was good enough as No. 4 and batting fulcrum in a very weak team (while also being competent keeper). Flower had the ability to score daddy 100s, which is currently eluding Pant. and I can recall several knocks where flower was scoring single-handedly, while everyone else kept collapsing.

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I would put gilly ahead for now, not because he's "better" (hard to quantify) but because he maintained his excellence over a long period. in the early-to-mid career, there were several counterattacking knocks by gilly in tough situations (e.g., vs Pak with Langoor; vs Ind with Haydos). however, my belief is that if Pant improves fitness and maintains form, he can overtake Gilly.

 

what will, however, be harder to do is overtake ABDV and Andy Flower, especially the latter who was good enough as No. 4 and batting fulcrum in a very weak team (while also being competent keeper). Flower had the ability to score daddy 100s, which is currently eluding Pant. and I can recall several knocks where flower was scoring single-handedly, while everyone else kept collapsing.

 

so are you putting Flower ahead of Gilly?

 

AB also didn't keep consistently. It was Boucher,De Kock with AB in between for 2-3 years.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

so are you putting Flower ahead of Gilly?

 

AB also didn't keep consistently. It was Boucher,De Kock with AB in between for 2-3 years.

yes, my order for now (which can change once pant matures) among those I have seen (looking mostly at batting) is: Flower > Gilly > ABDV the keeper [only because he didn't keep regularly] > Pant > Sanga the keeper (not Sanga the batter) > Prior > Dujon (lower avg, but better batter than most) > Dhongi > Rizwan

Edited December 24, 2022 by Vijy

[R!TTER]

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Pak with Langoor

Who's Langoor

 

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I would put gilly ahead for now, not because he's "better" (hard to quantify) but because he maintained his excellence over a long period.

I would still put him a fair distance ahead, despite some of the Pant fan's posts here, because he was a big match player! In LO he is the only player to score three 50+ scores in WC finals, Ponting was MoM in the 2003 final but without Gilly's onslaught in the first 15 overs Oz would not have scored 359

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, R!TTER said:

Who's Langoor

 

I would still put him a fair distance ahead, despite some of the Pant fan's posts here, because he was a big match player! In LO he is the only player to score three 50+ scores in WC finals, Ponting was MoM in the 2003 final but without Gilly's onslaught in the first 15 overs Oz would not have scored 359

but this discussion is only about Tests, RITTER. and I did put gilly ahead in tests.

 

Langoor = Langer

[R!TTER]

The Cricinfo article doesn't say anything about only tests or LO, it does reference mostly tests though.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

The Cricinfo article doesn't say anything about only tests or LO, it does reference mostly tests though.

yes, it is implicitly about tests. in ODIs, both ABDV and Dhongi are ahead of Pant by quite a margin

[Majestic]

46 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Odd instances can always be found.

 

But Pant saving India, in 1 out of 2 tough situations, has become the norm.

 

And this is priceless. 

I need to dig deep into Gilchrist 's career so can't say as of now but just that one instance I remember out of my head. I am sure he has quite a few more. 

 

But I get your point. Gilchrist batted mostly at 7 so instances of not outs will always be higher for him compared to what it is for a keeper bat who bats at 5 or 6. Pant is pretty much batting like a specialist batsman does and keeping is additional that he does. However, longevity is important and things can quickly so he has some time to go before we compare it with Gilchrist purely on career performance than comparing potentially.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I need to dig deep into Gilchrist 's career so can't say as of now but just that one instance I remember out of my head. I am sure he has quite a few more. 

.

 

The Aussie batting was so strong that they did not falter that often to give Gilly the chance to save them    : )

[Majestic]

26 minutes ago, Vijy said:

yes, my order for now (which can change once pant matures) among those I have seen (looking mostly at batting) is: Flower > Gilly > ABDV the keeper [only because he didn't keep regularly] > Pant > Sanga the keeper (not Sanga the batter) > Prior > Dujon (lower avg, but better batter than most) > Dhongi > Rizwan

Flower was a below par keeper and played for Zimbabwe ( which means lesser intensity series) which is why he is not rated as highly as Gilchrist. Also, need to dig into what Flower did vs Aussies or England in Tests. Against India, he was terrific ofcourse can't forget that, he gave some serious trauma when India played Zimbabwe back in late 90s. 

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Flower was a below par keeper and played for Zimbabwe ( which means lesser intensity series) which is why he is not rated as highly as Gilchrist. Also, need to dig into what Flower did vs Aussies or England in Tests. Against India, he was terrific ofcourse can't forget that, he gave some serious trauma when India played Zimbabwe back in late 90s. 

you should look up his twin centuries vs SA. he wasn't great vs Aus, but few players were. Eng was not a big team in 90s

 

besides, I was commenting mostly on batting - which you would have seen in my post

Edited December 24, 2022 by Vijy

[speedracer]

11 hours ago, R!TTER said:

He'll need to perform better with the bat & maintain similar level of WKing for 3x as long if he wants to surpass Gilly!

Let Gill play with this batting lineup of washed up kela kphli pujara etc and I won't be surprised if he averages under 40. 

[Vijy]

Just now, speedracer said:

Let Gill play with this batting lineup of washed up kela kphli pujara etc and I won't be surprised if he averages under 40. 

Gilly rarely took his batting seriously since it was a surplus most of the times. if he was challenged more often, perhaps he would have done better - like Andy flower

[speedracer]

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Gilly rarely took his batting seriously since it was a surplus most of the times. if he was challenged more often, perhaps he would have done better - like Andy flower

Also gilly played I. Flat pitch era. He would struggle on turning or seaming pitches. I remember them getting blown away by bond in early 2000.

Edited December 24, 2022 by speedracer

[zen]

Ind masses are jinxing poor Pant now for their own armchair vanities

 

 

[speedracer]

14 minutes ago, zen said:

Ind masses are jinxing poor Pant now for their own armchair vanities

 

 

Who even believes in jinxes. 

 

Pant is an ATG already. Knock vs Aussies is better than anything even sacchu has achieved. 

[zen]

6 minutes ago, speedracer said:

Who even believes in jinxes. 

 

Pant is an ATG already. Knock vs Aussies is better than anything even sacchu has achieved. 

 

Wait & watch. After sometime won't be surprised if they same ppl would be asking Pant to be dropped