NZ tour of Pakistan 2022/23 - Discussion Thread

[sandeep]

22 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

All top 5 Pak-pacemen has v.little to none 1st class exp. none of them has bowled 25 overs a day.

 

Shaheen should have been injured long back bcoz of the way Pak TM was using him, he played all the matched in all the format.

 

• Rauf was playing tape-ball crkt 3-4 years back where he needed to bowl 12 balls at max, he was more inclined to play t20s only let alone test
• Shaheen was picked too early just after U19,
• Naseem was picked all by SM and Pak YTbers   hyping him up (rumouring he was bowling 150ish at an age of 18 )
•  Husnain was picked from a local tournaments in Karachi.
• Wasim was picked just after 1 PSL 

This is okay for T20s- All 5 have picked some pace in last 2 years when pace has gone down for other teams (rabada and Starc are example of it), but for test you need bowler how can bowl longer spells at high speeds. 

 

This is also to do with PCB systematically looking to make progress in white ball, and test crkt has been on back burner 

 

 

Same on the spin front - Shadab Khan was an excellent prospect, but his red ball bowling potential went the Piyush Chawla way.  He's more focused on his batting, and now captaincy and transformed himself into a #7 bat who can bowl a big of legspin.  Waste of a 3 tool talent by a systemically diseased cricket structure.  

 

 

[putrevus]

26 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

All top 5 Pak-pacemen has v.little to none 1st class exp. none of them has bowled 25 overs a day.

 

Shaheen should have been injured long back bcoz of the way Pak TM was using him, he played all the matched in all the format.

 

• Rauf was playing tape-ball crkt 3-4 years back where he needed to bowl 12 balls at max, he was more inclined to play t20s only let alone test
• Shaheen was picked too early just after U19,
• Naseem was picked all by SM and Pak YTbers   hyping him up (rumouring he was bowling 150ish at an age of 18 )
•  Husnain was picked from a local tournaments in Karachi.
• Wasim was picked just after 1 PSL 

This is okay for T20s- All 5 have picked some pace in last 2 years when pace has gone down for other teams (rabada and Starc are example of it), but for test you need bowler how can bowl longer spells at high speeds. 

 

This is also to do with PCB systematically looking to make progress in white ball, and test crkt has been on back burner 

 

Naseem is fine, he still is very young, he can get better. Shaheen is good too Neither of them are great. They were never going to be Wasim or Waqar but they will be okay.I rather have Pakistan's way as far as pace bowlers being given chances way too early  than Indian way where they don't get even chances until they check all marks.Even then  trundlers are given priority.

 

Problem with Pakistan is spinners too , they don't have any spinners to control the game so fast bowlers can come and attack.

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Naseem is fine, he still is very young, he can get better. Shaheen is good too Neither of them are great. They were never going to be Wasim or Waqar but they will be okay.I rather have Pakistan's way as far as pace bowlers being given chances way too early  than Indian way where they don't get even chances until they check all marks.Even then  trundlers are given priority.

 

Problem with Pakistan is spinners too , they don't have any spinners to control the game so fast bowlers can come and attack.

Naseem has already had to come back from major back injuries - and his post recovery career is unlikely to last a fraction of say a Pat Cummins.  High probability that he will flame out after a year or 2 or if he plays longer, drop pace and become a trundler.  

[tapandrun]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Naseem is fine, he still is very young, he can get better. Shaheen is good too Neither of them are great. They were never going to be Wasim or Waqar but they will be okay.I rather have Pakistan's way as far as pace bowlers being given chances way too early  than Indian way where they don't get even chances until they check all marks.Even then  trundlers are given priority.

 

Problem with Pakistan is spinners too , they don't have any spinners to control the game so fast bowlers can come and attack.

Agree to how Pak is fielding their fastest men, I hope Ind TM can do the same, try putting all the fastest bowler available in a series and see the diff.  it creates.

 

The problem with Pak test bowling is no-one has ever bowled in longer spells in domestics and hence PCB finding hard to get a test level pacer. All Pak bowlers are considerably slower compared to their T20s speeds. 

And this is symptomatic by PCB the priority has been white ball, which I assume is okay on their part.

 

Pak team has done considerably well in last 2-3 years in white ball cricket  

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Naseem has already had to come back from major back injuries - and his post recovery career is unlikely to last a fraction of say a Pat Cummins.  High probability that he will flame out after a year or 2 or if he plays longer, drop pace and become a trundler.  

 

There is a reason why you don't see many Pak members in 200 wicket club these days. They fade away after sometime.

 

Akram 414

Waqar 373

Imran  362

 

Just 3 seamers in 200 club. That's it. Aktar is next with 178.

 

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

There is a reason why you don't see many Pak members in 200 wicket club these days. They fade away after sometime.

 

Akram 414

Waqar 373

Imran  362

 

Just 3 seamers in 200 club. That's it. Aktar is next with 178.

 

I don't know if Hassan Ali has that many wickets, but even Shaheen may fade quickly.  Couch-face's real age is unknown anyway - and no I'm not alleging age fraud to a massive extent - just that folks of his demographic tend to "mature/age" early and if you benefit from that a younger age, there's also the flip side where they do fade away at younger ages relatively.  Ultimately for bowlers its also about the mileage on their bodies.  The amount of bowling they have done.  It takes its toll.  

[sandeep]

26 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I rather have Pakistan's way as far as pace bowlers being given chances way too early  than Indian way where they don't get even chances until they check all marks

Around 2016-2017 I had started a thread on this very question - whether India needs to blood young promising quicks a bit earlier in their careers as opposed to waiting till later - @express bowling might remember - we had a long discussion on it...

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Naseem has already had to come back from major back injuries - and his post recovery career is unlikely to last a fraction of say a Pat Cummins.  High probability that he will flame out after a year or 2 or if he plays longer, drop pace and become a trundler.  

Injuries are unfortunate part of being a fast bowler.If he flames out it will be sad, I like him a lot . Playing FC cricket for even half season will help him a lot.

 

Pat Cummins is built differently

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Around 2016-2017 I had started a thread on this very question - whether India needs to blood young promising quicks a bit earlier in their careers as opposed to waiting till later - @express bowling might remember - we had a long discussion on it...

IMO fast bowlers need to play one full season of FC before they are brought into test teams.They need to learn art of wicket taking along with ability to bowl 20 overs and then coming back next day to bowl 20 overs again. Siraj is prime example of playing too many FC seasons, he lost that zip as he lost his speed.

 

Guy like Ishant had ability to bowl 20 over in a day without losing much gas but he never learnt art of taking wickets.He could have used reverse swing a lot better as his main weapon in sub continent ala Imran Khan.

 

Personally I would not suggest them playing IPL till they play FC cricket.

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Naseem has already had to come back from major back injuries - and his post recovery career is unlikely to last a fraction of say a Pat Cummins.  High probability that he will flame out after a year or 2 or if he plays longer, drop pace and become a trundler.  

there is high incentivization in Pak to become good at T20s, and that's why many of the current crop are good in that format. it takes diff skills to put in the hard yards and sustain pace + intensity in tests.

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

There is a reason why you don't see many Pak members in 200 wicket club these days. They fade away after sometime.

 

Akram 414

Waqar 373

Imran  362

 

Just 3 seamers in 200 club. That's it. Aktar is next with 178.

 

Fast bowling is very hard once ball tampering got clamped down, it reduced the ability of Pakistani bowlers a lot.Them not playing at home for more than a decade also did not help.

 

Pakistani pitches we are seeing have not changed much, it is just bowlers who are bowling are not talented and main thing they are unable to use reverse swing as weapon. two major things happened batsmen are aware of it and tampering has reduced a lot.

 

We also cannot underestimate their other potent weapons their home umpires.

 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

IMO fast bowlers need to play one full season of FC before they are brought into test teams.They need to learn art of wicket taking along with ability to bowl 20 overs and then coming back next day to bowl 20 overs again. Siraj is prime example of playing too many FC seasons, he lost that zip as he lost his speed.

 

Guy like Ishant had ability to bowl 20 over in a day without losing much gas but he never learnt art of taking wickets.He could have used reverse swing a lot better as his main weapon in sub continent ala Imran Khan.

 

Personally I would not suggest them playing IPL till they play FC cricket.

Siraj debut in red ball was delayed unnecessarily for 2 years or more. 

[SM2907]

pitch pe susu karenge to competitive pitch ban jaayegi kya??

[SM2907]

inshallah, bracewell hatrick coming up

[SM2907]

audience ka naam pe stadium mein suar ghoom rahe hain , batao

[Number]

NZ lack the wicket takers and the pitch has become flatter and flatter. All about batsman making a mistake. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Number

[SM2907]

37 minutes ago, Number said:

NZ lack the wicket takers and the pitch has become flatter and flatter. All about batsman making a mistake. 

inshallah, southee and sodhi will take hatrick and show the kufr power

[Lone Wolf]

25 minutes ago, SM2907 said:

inshallah, southee and sodhi will take hatrick and show the kufr power

NZ have Ajaz to counter the Kufr

[speedracer]

Kufoor toot hoga. Marhaba marhaba

[SM2907]

when will Bazid remove constipation from his mouth??