1st Test Nagpur, February 09 - 13, 2023, Australia tour of India - PREMATCH

[zen]

13 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

yeah - thing is speaking of poking holes.....Everyone likes to poke holes in Sunny's career saying it was so so with a 51 odd average using no helmets, chest or thigh guards where as the more recent heroes like SRT with 53+ average dressed like a medieval knight while playing fast bowling are the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

 

Sunny had a bad patch 81-83 and he had trouble in 1971 in World XI versus Lillee and Massie. But then they ignore the rest of his career and ignore the 188 he scored versus Marshall and Hadlee and Clive Rice at Lords after retirement playing for World XI vs MCC.

Sachin usually used to play one good knock per series against strong attacks. He record against Pak with Wasim + Waqar, Aus with McGrath + Warne (had one good series in 1999), etc., is not too flattering. 

Sachin is among top batsman but there are many such top batsmen around and some of them are probably more mentally tougher. 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by zen

[AKane]

23 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Right, so how does that prove SRT isn't better? Sure helmets have allowed batters to be slightly more "fearless" the counter argument to that is they have (arguably) less time & FoV to watch the ball from the bowler's hand, the grill & helmet on top is hardly the elixir or panacea you're making it out to be - it also has some major disadvantages!

It is a panacea. If the advantages were less than disadvantages - people would use them sparingly..... Everyone uses them - everyone. Why? Because it overwhelmingly is advantageous.

 

Not slightly more "fearless" but feeling quite "safe". The video I posted earlier with SRT hit on helmet by a Akhtar bouncer would have without the helmet......you figure it out.

 

For example Sunny could not wear the ball on his head like SRT did .....result is wicket to Lillee. Watch at 1.38 minute.Lillee to Gavaskar. Similar ball as what hit SRT from Akhtar on helmet. Sunny had to dodge. No helmets those days.

 

 

 

[AKane]

Speaking of poking holes in career.

 

Let us look at Lillee (supposed greatest bowler ever.... he was not a patch on Marshall or even McGrath) outside Aus/Eng/NZ.

 

in Australia	1971-1984	44	546	27	11.37	0	231	7/83	23.73	15	16	0	-12.35	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in England	1972-1981	16	278	73*	23.16	0	96	7/89	20.56	6	1	0	2.60	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in New Zealand	1977-1982	5	63	23*	15.75	0	22	6/72	22.50	2	4	0	-6.74	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in Pakistan	1980-1980	3	18	12*	9.00	0	3	3/114	101.00	0	1	0	-91.99	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in Sri Lanka	1983-1983	1	-	-	-	-	3	2/67	35.66	0	1	0	-	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in West Indies	1973-1973	1	-	-	-	-	0	-	-	0	0	0	-	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

 

 

He has 3 wickets in 3 tests for 101 in Pak

He  has 3 wickets in 1 test for 35 odd in SL

He has no wickets in WI

He never played in India.

 

He played a total of 5 tests outside his "ghar and ilaka" in Aus/Eng/NZ.

 

He should keep his trap shut about Sunny or anyone  and step out of Aus/Eng/NZ.

 

Some "greatest fast bowler"  my a@@

[R!TTER]

You would've had a point had that ball hit him at Perth, it didn't not to mention Shoaib was faster & the pitches in Pak generally lower than any Oz wicket back in the 70's - as for helmet no you have no evidence to suggest that it has favored (just) batters overwhelmingly! The bowling has also evolved over the years, so has batting btw, from targeting body/slips to now more on the stumps of just slightly outside off. An easy example to counter your point is T20's - if we take your point then we should be seeing 1000-1500 runs on dead tracks these days but why aren't we? In my 25-30 years of watching cricket I've yet to see someone come close to replicating this in a test, especially at Perth -

Maybe you'll find another banal counter to that, good luck 

 

 

[zen]

7 minutes ago, AKane said:

Speaking of poking holes in career.

 

He (Lillee) has 3 wickets in 3 tests for 101 in Pak

 

 

Note that Lillee's performance in Pak needs to be looked relative to other bowlers in the series. Pak deliberately had tracks that would neutralize Lillee and where Pak's own pace bowlers struggled too. 

[AKane]

11 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Note that Lillee's performance in Pak needs to be looked relative to other bowlers in the series. Pak deliberately had tracks that would neutralize Lillee and where Pak's own pace bowlers struggled too. 

 

Check Marshall in Pak then. You think they did not try to neutralize him?

 

in Australia	1984-1989	10	250	57	19.23	0	45	5/29	23.15	5	5	0	-3.92	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in England	1980-1991	18	388	72	18.47	0	94	7/22	18.70	6	5	0	-0.22	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in India	1978-1983	9	252	92	22.90	0	36	6/37	24.61	2	2	0	-1.70	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in New Zealand	1987-1987	3	83	45	20.75	0	9	4/43	32.11	0	0	0	-11.36	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in Pakistan	1980-1990	10	137	27	9.78	0	35	5/33	21.45	1	1	0	-11.67	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
in West Indies	1981-1991	31	700	76	21.21	0	157	7/80	20.06	8	12	0	1.14	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif

[AKane]

16 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

as for helmet no you have no evidence to suggest that it has favored (just) batters overwhelmingly!

Then why do batters use it? All of them? Why?  Because it helps batsmen overwhelmingly. The fear of being conked on head is considerable without helmet.

[zen]

10 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

Check Marshall in Pak then. You think they did not try to neutralize him?

 

 

Marshall can be said to be in a different league and a part of a relatively stronger bowling attack.  Marshall is to pacers what a Warne is to spinners. 

 

He has destroyed many teams in subcon. 

[AKane]

Aus seems focused on this series -  Cummins saying in presser that this series is bigger than Ashes for Aus stars.

 

Hopefully our men are as focused.

 

 

[putrevus]

Sachin was far better than Gavaskar against any type of bowling.He could take attack to any type bowling on any surface,

 

Vishwanth was good, I would not even call Viswanath very good, let us not overhype players.Vishy would be a notch below Mohinder.

[speedracer]

7 hours ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 

Lets see what Boland Tondu does- he was hyped up purely based on his home track bullying.. he will get spanked on Indian pitches.

 

Without Starc and Hazelwood, Australia fans will say India won because of 2nd string aussie bowling line up

We are missing 4 players. Starc averages close to 60 in India. 

Hazlewtrundler averages 33 and is getting slower. He is also getting older. 

[speedracer]

No offence to Warne fans. If he was so damn good why did he get thrashed in India? Yea sure good players of spin but he also had the support from mcg and Gillespie. That's the only reason he looked good in most places. Pace support matters. 

 

Ash has trash stats in SA and mediocre in England iirc. He has done well in most place. Ash too had the support of world class bowlers. His stats improved only after bumrah shami came into the picture. Prior to that he was mediocre. 

 

Warne without support is > Ash without support from pace bowlers and that's why he is rated higher but let's not overrate Warne either. He did f all against good batsmen of spin.

Edited February 6, 2023 by speedracer

[AKane]

The 3 unknown bowlers Boland, Morris and Murphy are to be seen.  Our batsmen should be much more comfortable against Cummins and Lyon who are known quantities.

 

Murphy and Lyon are both offspinners so maybe they will play Agar or Swepson.

Edited February 6, 2023 by AKane

[speedracer]

45 minutes ago, AKane said:

The 3 unknown bowlers Boland, Morris and Murphy are to be seen.  Our batsmen should be much more comfortable against Cummins and Lyon who are known quantities.

 

Murphy and Lyon are both offspinners so maybe they will play Agar or Swepson.

Boland played in odis before I believe. 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

Great memories. Think I’ll watch cricket after last year’s WC

 

 

[SRT100]

Our country drunk man wants turn from Day 1.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricket-videos/ravi-shastri-and-ian-chappell-on-pitches-during-india-australia-tests-1357466

 

 

I want it even earlier, I want to see turn before the game begins.

[SRT100]

Incredible to think that India would be a stronger side if they fielded 7 bowlers.

 

Siraj Shami, Ash Jaddu, Axar, Kuldeep, Sundar

 

If it meant leaving out KL and Kohli.

 

 

[nitinbwj]

I want rank turners like fukin minefields. It will be fun. It can be tabahi for Aus Or Ind or both... Maza aa jayega 

[SRT100]

6 minutes ago, nitinbwj said:

I want rank turners like fukin minefields. It will be fun. It can be tabahi for Aus Or Ind or both... Maza aa jayega 

 

Same, I loved it when we played Test matches that got over inside 3 days.

 

Every session is exciting and riveting.

 

Imagine Ash, Jaddu, Axar and Kuldeep in the same side. Our batting is bad, but Australia's will be worse against this quadruple threat.

[speedracer]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

 

Same, I loved it when we played Test matches that got over inside 3 days.

 

Every session is exciting and riveting.

 

Imagine Ash, Jaddu, Axar and Kuldeep in the same side. Our batting is bad, but Australia's will be worse against this quadruple threat.

Definitely and unlike Aussies we aren't pussies who shy away from preparing ultra seaming pitches when we tour there. We prepare extreme pitches with turn if we want to

Aussies or poms would never prepare ultra seaming bouncy pitches because they are afraid of our pacers. They will prepare flat wickets with moderate seam and carry

Edited February 7, 2023 by speedracer