Shami vs Shardul - What is your pick ?

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

but Thakur on current doesn't add much to it. It's just fake batting depth. 

 

Batting is ending at 6 anyway. Others will only support.

On currenty form also team believes he can score runs. Come big match Thakur in his short career has always stood up with bat.

 

He might not score 50 but he can score 20 .That is why he is playing in the team.

 

 

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

On currenty form also team believes he can score runs. Come big match Thakur in his short career has always stood up with bat.

 

He might not score 50 but he can score 20 .That is why he is playing in the team.

 

 

 

And is that 20 worth more than the lack of wickets and extra runs he'll give almost every game?

[zen]

Shami, esp. if he is bowling well 

[putrevus]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

And is that 20 worth more than the lack of wickets and extra runs he'll give almost every game?

Thakur SR is 18 in odis so he is not as bad as you are making him. His 20 runs might end up as a difference between win and loss in semi final.

 

Raina scored crucial runs in 2011 semis when better bowler was sitting in Sresanth.Dhoni was in his prime along with Yuvraj.

 

They still opted for extra cushion in batting.

 

You want top order who are older with 4 and 5 untested. Pandya good for cameos/fifties only as your batsman.

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

And is that 20 worth more than the lack of wickets and extra runs he'll give almost every game?

 

Shami on his day is a genuine match winner. Nobody can deny that. Thakur's role is mostly to give imaginary cushion. He can be a match winner on one of thsoe lucky days. He has won one man of the match his incredible spell  :)  of 6 overs 3 for 45 while defending 387 runs and 25 runs. Other than that nothing noteworthy. But he could be picked for some games for batting cushion. 

[deepdynamo]

Problem is sir Jadeja at No.7.

 

If its pandya at No.7, then we play Shami, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Siraj.

 

We need 6 pure batsman + Pandya to play our 4 best bowler.

[Nikhil_cric]

21 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 Pandya is number 6 for India. Jadeja/Sundar/Ashwin are number 7.There is no number 6 that is why I was hoping Tilak will be selected.

 

If Tilak plays, it gives batsmen more freedom. If his bowling is as good Mathew Short then what is stopping them from picking him.

 

Thakur then would not needed for any match at all.

 

 

We don't need Tilak only to bowl 3-4 overs.  Literally anybody can do that job even now if they start getting some time to bowl.

 

You yourself kept saying that there is no need for spin-allrounder in every match. Go batting heavy and pace heavy

 

Rohit

Gill

Kohli

KL

Ishan

Pandya(7 overs)

SKY

Bumrah

Shami

Kuldeep

Siraj

 

Even if Tilak is not selected, then what is the harm in getting 3 overs from any of the top order?  You get 47 overs of wicket-kaing threat at a level you wont get with Shardul, Jadeja, Axar and, by extension, Ashwin.

 

3-4 overs combined from SKY, Gill and even Rohit. It's not too late even now. 

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 minute ago, deepdynamo said:

Problem is sir Jadeja at No.7.

 

If its pandya at No.7, then we play Shami, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Siraj.

 

We need 6 pure batsman + Pandya to play our 4 best bowler.

This. Shardul and the extra spin-allrounder are the issues. It should only be one of Jadeja/Axar/Washi/Ash in the XV as a back up for  Kuldeep or if needed as second spinner for certain pitches imo.  

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

Problem is sir Jadeja at No.7.

 

If its pandya at No.7, then we play Shami, Bumrah, Kuldeep and Siraj.

 

We need 6 pure batsman + Pandya to play our 4 best bowler.

 

That half baked all rounder can't finish games like he should, can't make impact in the middle overs. Just doing the bare minimum and surviving on it.

[Lord]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Shami on his day is a genuine match winner. Nobody can deny that. Thakur's role is mostly to give imaginary cushion. He can be a match winner on one of thsoe lucky days. He has won one man of the match his incredible spell  :)  of 6 overs 3 for 45 while defending 387 runs and 25 runs. Other than that nothing noteworthy. But he could be picked for some games for batting cushion. 

 

There's no cushion. Even top 6 know it. They bat conservatively anyway knowing he can't be relied.

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

We don't need Tilak only to bowl 3-4 overs.  Literally anybody can do that job even now if they start getting some time to bowl.

 

You yourself kept saying that there is no need for spin-allrounder in every match. Go batting heavy and pace heavy

 

Rohit

Gill

Kohli

KL

Ishan

Pandya(7 overs)

SKY

Bumrah

Shami

Kuldeep

Siraj

 

Even if Tilak is not selected, then what is the harm in getting 3 overs from any of the top order?  You get 47 overs of wicket-kaing threat at a level you wont get with Shardul, Jadeja, Axar and, by extension, Ashwin.

 

3-4 overs combined from SKY, Gill and even Rohit. It's not too late even now. 

 

 

How can you expect 3-4 overs from top order when they have not bowled in ages. What happens if Pandya goes for runs, 

 

Tilak is needed on pitches like today, he will bowl ten overs. You cannot expect Rohit or Kohli (his bowling stinks) to suddenly role their arms.They are playing world cup not charity matches.

[Lord]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Thakur SR is 18 in odis so he is not as bad as you are making him. His 20 runs might end up as a difference between win and loss in semi final.

 

Raina scored crucial runs in 2011 semis when better bowler was sitting in Sresanth.Dhoni was in his prime along with Yuvraj.

 

They still opted for extra cushion in batting.

 

You want top order who are older with 4 and 5 untested. Pandya good for cameos/fifties only as your batsman.

 

Those were different times, They opted for extra cushion because top 5 batsmen could bowl and bowlers werent as good anyway.

 

Now its reverse. Top 5 don't bowl so primary bowling duty is on main bowlers only. So best is to pick best bowlers

[deepdynamo]

6 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

This. Shardul and the extra spin-allrounder are the issues. It should only be one of Jadeja/Axar/Washi/Ash in the XV as a back up for  Kuldeep or if needed as second spinner for certain pitches imo.  

 

If we are playing 4 genuine quality bowlers then total 5 bowlers should be enough. There is no need for the 6th bowler

(Jadeja/Axar/Washi/Thakur)....if anyone has a bad day, so be it. 

[Nikhil_cric]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How can you expect 3-4 overs from top order when they have not bowled in ages. What happens if Pandya goes for runs, 

 

Tilak is needed on pitches like today, he will bowl ten overs. You cannot expect Rohit or Kohli (his bowling stinks) to suddenly role their arms.They are playing world cup not charity matches.

That's an excuse that only indian TM gives.  Travis Head had barely bowled in 5 years and he started bowling recently.  Besides, if you watched today, even a bowling allrounder can get hit at certain phases.  

 

The average part timer will go at around 6.30 which is high but the best defensive spinner also goes at 5 rpo.  And we only want 4 overs. It's a very good trade off if you get 46 overs of the best bowling if yo can possibly provide and an extra batter to strengthen the batting.

[Nikhil_cric]

2 minutes ago, deepdynamo said:

 

If we are playing 4 genuine quality bowlers then total 5 bowlers should be enough. There is no need for the 6th bowler

(Jadeja/Axar/Washi/Thakur)....if anyone has a bad day, so be it. 

Exactly.  Even though SKY was unproven, it just felt so much more balanced with him walking in at #6  for a chase.

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Those were different times, They opted for extra cushion because top 5 batsmen could bowl and bowlers werent as good anyway.

 

Now its reverse. Top 5 don't bowl so primary bowling duty is on main bowlers only. So best is to pick best bowlers

Even if you have 5 Mcgraths, no captain will go into match thinking we will be okay.So I cannot blame TM for playing Thakur or Jadeja.

 

That is why Australia played 3 allrounders.When they have better bowling in the shed.

 

England looks like deep team because their best bowlers can handle bat and guy like Root can bowl.

 

Teams have not punished their weaknesses yet.Once they start punishing England , they will also change thei style.

[saneindian]

The kite flying by some of the ruddalis of ICF is amusing at best. All to hang onto some strawman they have been building in their head.

 

Move Gill to 3, play three front-line seamers + Pandya on Indian tracks, including the same Shami, who was past it just a few days back!

 

Glad that oblivious of such expert advice, the TM seems to have some solid plans, and they are going calmly about testing out the combinations (and doing it decently). Keep building the momentum and time it to peak towards the business end of the tournament

 

The best part in this build-up has been that unlike in 2015 and 2019 when in the leadup to the WC, the top order was hogging all the batting, we have had the middle order step up multiple times. It will come in handy later during the WC. 

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

That's an excuse that only indian TM gives.  Travis Head had barely bowled in 5 years and he started bowling recently.  Besides, if you watched today, even a bowling allrounder can get hit at certain phases.  

 

The average part timer will go at around 6.30 which is high but the best defensive spinner also goes at 5 rpo.  And we only want 4 overs. It's a very good trade off if you get 46 overs of the best bowling if yo can possibly provide and an extra batter to strengthen the batting.

That is not an excuse. Sachin or Sehwag did not bowl in 2011 world cup.Should they have practiced bowling,yes but unless a player feels confident , you cannot force them to do it.

 

Yuvi came a long way back after giving 5 sixes to Dmitri in England in 2007.He has told many time he could not sleep for many days.That is credit to Yuvi .

 

Travis head is decent bowler who has bowled in tests too,

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Even if you have 5 Mcgraths, no captain will go into match thinking we will be okay.So I cannot blame TM for playing Thakur or Jadeja.

 

That is why Australia played 3 allrounders.When they have better bowling in the shed.

 

England looks like deep team because their best bowlers can handle bat and guy like Root can bowl.

 

Teams have not punished their weaknesses yet.Once they start punishing England , they will also change thei style.

 

Aus are trying players. In main games their bowling will be Starc,Cummins and Ellis/Hazelwood. All walk into the team on bowling only.

 

England have lot of allrounders. We don't have that luxury. So we have to approach it differently.

[putrevus]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Aus are trying players. In main games their bowling will be Starc,Cummins and Ellis/Hazelwood. All walk into the team on bowling only.

 

England have lot of allrounders. We don't have that luxury. So we have to approach it differently.

That is why they have been doing the balancing act.I cannot blame this TM if they do the same in this world cup.

 

To create balance from these unbalanced players is very hard.

 

It a long tournament , it will have ebbs and flows. Let us see how things work out.