Indian illegal immigration a shame for the great nation.

[diga]

People need to learn the art of trolling &  diverting from khota....

[Lannister]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

I think you are saying there is no way to know if a societies progress is reaping benefits of being a pluralistic one, there are several indirect indicators - education, economic competitiveness index, civil liberties freedom indexes, quality of life, and human development index etc. Now one can argue these indexes themselves are subjective - but election for instance is a form of collective subjectivity --> objectivity. 

 

"Pluralist societies encourage and foster equal participation of all citizens in the political, economic and socio-cultural life of the nation – enabling individuals and groups to express their cultural, linguistic and religious identities within a framework of shared citizenship". India was a pluralistic society since it came into existence as a civilization and then as a republic, it still is in terms of constitution but it being challenged by a sudden need to become a Hindu hindi speaking country, which it is not.  

Well said. Southern states should actively advocate for constitutional reforms, questioning the exclusive official status granted to Hindi. We have religious freedom in this nation, yet there is a lack of language equality, which forms the bedrock of diversity within this union of states. 

[bharathh]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

re-establish something in place.. what are you talking about ? wtf are you typing man.. lulz.. it makes absolutely no sense to me. First get your thoughts right and type what you want to say about topic, if you have trouble being coherent try to use translation tools and type. What are you angry about lol ? i cant even make out. 

 

@ravishingravi has explained it better below.

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

You started with initial premise that "Pluralism needs to re-establish" itself. Assumption is that it has removed to some extent. 

 

So I am asking specific evidence for your assertion. Take for example Hindu Hindi speaking. Share one law , one piece of data or corroborative evidence to show that anything has changed. 

 

In this increasingly Hindu Hindi India, your CM Stalin can call the most prominent religion as AIDS and virus that needs to be eradicated. He is still Scott free. While Nupur Sharma from largest party is hiding and 6 people who supported her are beheaded. 

 

So I am trying to understand what you are really talking about. How long has it been since you have been to or around India ? 

 

 

 

Ahh i get you. Thats my opinion you need to make yours and be happy with diverse opinions. Substantiation is based on several publications of articles opinions research publications etc ( some would be vested in either side so one need to discern ) read you own i wont be spending time to.list all that here. But overall the current regime wants progress of a BJP lead hindu hindi Bharat not a pluralistic India. Which is subtle but would question the fundamental tenets on which the republic was built, i would explain for instance the state reorganization act was established by the republic that every language would be preserved respected and allowed to grow. If central govt now says no Hindi is primary in ehat ever way say a circulsr somehwere a station sign somehwere then we are going back on that. Likewise for autonomy for kashmir etc if you go back on fundamentals around the formation of the republic it would be bad for Indian republic which you right wing folks should be careful and planful around ( not be identity based divisive always ) and would even be a bad for India the civ which we should not allow. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Vilander

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, Lannister said:

Well said. Southern states should actively advocate for constitutional reforms, questioning the exclusive official status granted to Hindi. We have religious freedom in this nation, yet there is a lack of language equality, which forms the bedrock of diversity within this union of states. 

Its a primary principle on which the state reoganization act helped build the republic cant go back on that yup

[bharathh]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

 

 

 

Ahh i get you. Thats my opinion you need to make yours and be happy with diverse opinions. Substantiation is based on several publications of articles opinions research publications etc ( some would be vested in either side so one need to discern ) read you own i wont be spending time to.list all that here. But overall the current regime wants progress of a BJP lead hindu hindi Bharat not a pluralistic India. Which is subtle but would question the fundamental tenets on which the republic was built, i would explain for instance the state reorganization act was established by the republic that every language would be preserved respected and allowed to grow. If central govt now says no Hindi is primary in ehat ever way say a circulsr somehwere a station sign somehwere then we are going back on that. Likewise for autonomy for kashmir etc if you go back on fundamentals around the formation of the republic it would be bad for Indian republic which you right wing folks should be careful and planful around ( not be identity based divisive always ) and would even be a bad for India the civ which we should not allow. 

 

So basically you are talking out of your ass and are outraged when people don't agree with you. No basis behind your claims.

 

Gotcha.

[Vilander]

1 hour ago, bharathh said:

 

So basically you are talking out of your ass and are outraged when people don't agree with you. No basis behind your claims.

 

Gotcha.

Actually reverse is true you appear to be angry i am posting normally. I have no outrage you on the other had have rage in yiur poats unable to post clearly or with purpose other than anger. Unproductive so i would not be responding anymore.

[Vilander]

This is a good read. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_Reorganisation_Act,_1956

 

So the way to understand this is why did the act come to be what happened before it and what impact it had on the republic as a whole. 

 

Form informed opinions and dont abuse people who are informing you. Look inward why your world view is being challenged.  And be tolerant of doverse opinions. Lol such snow flakes, relax chill. 

[Vilander]

Apologies for my many typos i am not editing them my fingers are too big for my 6 incn phone display :/

[Vilander]

On 10/29/2023 at 12:15 PM, Vilander said:

More context 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/india-why-are-undocumented-gujaratis-migrating-to-the-us/a-65259174

 

 

"Families from Gujarat state are risking their lives to make the perilous journey through the Mexican desert or Canada's dense forests in freezing temperatures in search of the so-called American dream."

 

What's driving Gujaratis to migrate?

 

"Thousands from Gujarat's Patidar or Patel community have tried to undertake precarious journeys through dense forests, deserts and risky water channels to reach the US in search of better lives and the "American dream."

 

"The rush to escape is strong. People here are willing to spend any amount of money to somehow reach the US where the large and powerful network of the Patel community takes care of them," sociologist Gaurang Jani, who teaches at the Gujarat University in Ahmedabad, told DW.

 

"Once they have reached their destination, there is a huge support structure from the community. They do not mind taking on menial jobs but the goal is to reach the US," added Jani.

 

 

 

Just to steer the convo back to the topic. 

[ravishingravi]

17 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

 

 

Ahh i get you. Thats my opinion you need to make yours and be happy with diverse opinions. Substantiation is based on several publications of articles opinions research publications etc ( some would be vested in either side so one need to discern ) read you own i wont be spending time to.list all that here. But overall the current regime wants progress of a BJP lead hindu hindi Bharat not a pluralistic India. Which is subtle but would question the fundamental tenets on which the republic was built, i would explain for instance the state reorganization act was established by the republic that every language would be preserved respected and allowed to grow. If central govt now says no Hindi is primary in ehat ever way say a circulsr somehwere a station sign somehwere then we are going back on that. Likewise for autonomy for kashmir etc if you go back on fundamentals around the formation of the republic it would be bad for Indian republic which you right wing folks should be careful and planful around ( not be identity based divisive always ) and would even be a bad for India the civ which we should not allow. 

 

So all you have is talking point and not single data point. I would take it with pinch of salt. It's partisan political non sense which I could couldn't care less for. 

 

India has its troubles but trajectory is what matters. It's nation in process of formation. 

 

What does evidence show ?

 

1) violence is on secular decline in all forms. Not because of BJP particularly. But an overall upscaling of population. 

 

2) Poverty is at historic low with access medical insurance, bank accounts, LPG cylinder and free houses. And now tap water which was sorely lacking even in south. 

 

3) All the amenities are given to the lower strata of society with no religious discrimination ie houses have been provided to Muslims too. Unless you provide contrary evidence 

 

4) Minority subsidies including Haj subsidies have gone up over last 5 years including scholarship for Muslim students. Wonder how this happened. 

 

5) Indian temples continue to be controlled by govt while all the other religions control their institution. Your pluralistic India is alive. 

 

6) Muslims and other religions have their religious codes including child marriage in place. No change from your pluralistic India. 

 

7) on your bs on about Hindi language, literally the new education policy emphasizes on importance of local regional language and English, even more than the previous policy. 

 

8) On India's inherent pluralism this is what pew research shows. So again I don't see how you make conclusions without data. 

 https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/religion-in-india-tolerance-and-segregation/

 

Conclusion : Don't think you know what you are talking about. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by ravishingravi

[Vilander]

10 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

So all you have is talking point and not single data point. I would take it with pinch of salt. It's partisan political non sense which I could couldn't care less for. 

 

India has its troubles but trajectory is what matters. It's nation in process of formation. 

 

What does evidence show ?

 

1) violence is on secular decline in all forms. Not because of BJP particularly. But an overall upscaling of population. 

 

2) Poverty is at historic low with access medical insurance, bank accounts, LPG cylinder and free houses. And now tap water which was sorely lacking even in south. 

 

3) All the amenities are given to the lower strata of society with no religious discrimination ie houses have been provided to Muslims too. Unless you provide contrary evidence 

 

4) Minority subsidies including Haj subsidies have gone up over last 5 years including scholarship for Muslim students. Wonder how this happened. 

 

5) Indian temples continue to be controlled by govt while all the other religions control their institution. Your pluralistic India is alive. 

 

6) Muslims and other religions have their religious codes including child marriage in place. No change from your pluralistic India. 

 

7) on your bs on about Hindi language, literally the new education policy emphasizes on importance of local regional language and English, even more than the previous policy. 

 

8) On India's inherent pluralism this is what pew research shows. So again I don't see how you make conclusions without data. 

 https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/06/29/religion-in-india-tolerance-and-segregation/

 

Conclusion : Don't think you know what you are talking about. 

 

 

You have right to your opinion. There is plenty of public matrial available on majoritarianism in India under the Modi govt. If you claim it does not exist then you are free to claim that, but i wont agree as i have seen plenty of evidence to contrary available in public domain. Thsre is nothing to diacuss on this topic between us. Stick to the topic of illegal immigration from India. Cheers 

[Vilander]

@ravishingravi

 

If you want to debate religious freedom in India start a seperate thread. We can debate there. 

Again you need to debate the point of view not the person as i am not interested in any verbal fights. 

 

 

 

[Khota]

8 hours ago, Vilander said:

@ravishingravi

 

If you want to debate religious freedom in India start a seperate thread. We can debate there. 

Again you need to debate the point of view not the person as i am not interested in any verbal fights. 

 

 

 

That man is one of the most despicable posters on this forum. Once you realize that posting becomes easy.

[Vilander]

18 minutes ago, Khota said:

That man is one of the most despicable posters on this forum. Once you realize that posting becomes easy.

It is still important to discuss Khota.. I am not a left winger and despise extream left and fifth column. But radical right is no less in its destructive ability. 

[Khota]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

It is still important to discuss Khota.. I am not a left winger and despise extream left and fifth column. But radical right is no less in its destructive ability. 

I discuss with him too, but I do know what I am up against. Pure. Unadulterated. Evil.

[bharathh]

11 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

 

You have right to your opinion. There is plenty of public matrial available on majoritarianism in India under the Modi govt. If you claim it does not exist then you are free to claim that, but i wont agree as i have seen plenty of evidence to contrary available in public domain. Thsre is nothing to diacuss on this topic between us. Stick to the topic of illegal immigration from India. Cheers 

So why are you not able to present a coherent argument to add any value to your points? Discussions have 0 merit just on the basis of what someone feels despite the opposite being true.

[Khota]

14 hours ago, bharathh said:

So why are you not able to present a coherent argument to add any value to your points? Discussions have 0 merit just on the basis of what someone feels despite the opposite being true.

What more can anyone present. He has presented the documented cases, nothing will satisfy you, so it is pointless to begin with.

[Vilander]

16 hours ago, bharathh said:

So why are you not able to present a coherent argument to add any value to your points? Discussions have 0 merit just on the basis of what someone feels despite the opposite being true.

Cause the topic is illegal immigration from India and i have added lot of content for it check the first page. I dont want to derail this thread. You should settle down or not bother with the thread if it distubs you so much. Chill.

[MechEng]

On 10/30/2023 at 7:34 AM, bharathh said:

Problem is the grass-is-greener syndrome. People who live abroad Mumbai may have crappy lives in crappy jobs - but still feel they will be top dog just because they are in abroad  Mumbai. 

 

Fixed.