Is this best overseas performing Indian team?

[sensible-indian]

15 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Unpopular opinion but this team missed out on a trick by not playing Ashwin-Jadeja together in many of the SENA tests. When they finally did in 2020 MCG we saw one of the greatest comebacks and both played extremely vital roles. Same story in SCG but roles reversed, this time Jadeja with ball and Ash with bat. 

 

2021 WTC final loss is unfairly pinned on selection of 2 spinners, diagnosis hi galat tha sabka, so many other things went wrong in that match. 4 pacers (2018 RSA 3rd test mein first put in use) was a good idea initially but only on certain kind of pitches and anyway we overused the template so much and it became a crazy obsession when 4th quick became a weak link. Sometimes this template is used in wrong pitches, or here for instance when an extra batsman would have been so much more useful.

 

Anyway missed opportunity as Ashwin, Jadeja are well past their prime. 

Tragedy of Indian cricket.

 

Whats worse is that forget the management, 99% of the fans never realized it either.

 

If you break down every SENA game starting from 2013 SA tour, we would have won more than we had won right now.

Edited January 4 by sensible-indian

[R!TTER]

8 minutes ago, Lord said:

It is because Ashwin's batting went down and Thakur was seen as equally effective and he did play some good knocks.

 

2 spinners works only if captain knows how to use them if its not turning.

Jadeja/Ashwin were at their peak in 2018/19 - guess how many times they played together in SA/Eng & instead Sobers lite was preferred? Heck Jadeja played just one game IIRC that too last test in Eng, he was probably our best batter across two innings there. He could’ve easily played in SA second test at least 2 more tests (before the last one) in Eng as well. Also one major issue was BRat preferring his lungi yaar thigh slapper over KL in SA & then Eng - KL was our best batter in 2017, especially at the top! There was absolutely no strategy or planning back then, why the * did BK play that last ODI & got wrecked for the test series or why did Kuldeep play on green(ish) Mamba at Lords? Shastri likes to toot his horn too much but he was hardly a master tactician, just that in some ways we got lucky in Oz twice in a row with Pant/Jadeja/Sundar/Thakur/Siraj/Ashwin/Pujara playing out of their skins! If we play those 2 series now we lose both of them by big effin margins

Edited January 4 by R!TTER

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Thats just wrong. Pant and Jadeja did well in 2018-19 and 2021 Aus tours too. 

 

They had been carrying our batting as top 5 was very poor especially Rahane and Pujara.

 

I never said they did not do well  but 2018 Aussies tour was all about Pujara standing and delivering those three 100s and his stand with Kohli in Melbourne test.

 

By the time Jadeja and Pant improved a lot in 2021 , Kohli was no long a force.There was no one else to take Kohli's place.

You cannot have your WK as best batsman which Pant was once Kohli was down and out.

 

I did say 2021 series was won by Pant.

[Vijy]

14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Biggest miss for this team was Pandya not playing tests. He could have been a vital cog as 4th seamer and plugged in so many holes, as batting AR. He had the ability, even fitness since I think of him as a batting AR with not much bowling workload. But he never had the heart or desire, chased the wrong things and will probably end his career as a what if. 

 

Had he put his mind on test cricket with conviction, we could have had 1 or 2 major victories (even one WTC final or a series win in RSA) putting this team as the undisputed greatest overseas performers. 

I just can't see him doing well in tests. to be a batting AR, one should ideally avg 35+ (shane watto as opener had 42-43), and pandu's batting back then lacked solidity. nowadays it is more tight, but has lost explosively (thus diminishing value in LOIs). his bowling was fine though for 5th bowler.

[Number]

Disagree. 2002-10 was the best Indian test team. 

 

This team was whitewashed by a NZ team which can not even beat BD at home.

Outplayed by the worst SA team (almost a minnow level SA team full of no name rookies) in 2021.

Couldn't beat Joe Root's England.

 

You can't be losing series after series in such embarrassing manner and be called the best team. 

 

Edited January 4 by Number

[Gollum]

16 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I just can't see him doing well in tests. to be a batting AR, one should ideally avg 35+ (shane watto as opener had 42-43), and pandu's batting back then lacked solidity. nowadays it is more tight, but has lost explosively (thus diminishing value in LOIs). his bowling was fine though for 5th bowler.

But with oldish ball, coming after 40-50 overs he could have added important runs. Batting at #7 or #8. 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Gollum said:

But with oldish ball, coming after 40-50 overs he could have added important runs. Batting at #7 or #8. 

if pitch has spice, he would have struggled even with 40-50 over ball. and if pitch is not so spicy, he would bat around the time of 2nd new ball, which is challenging as well.

 

of course, all these are ifs and buts, we will never know

[putrevus]

What did 2002-10 team do in NZ in 2003 , oh I forgot , they got whopped by NZ trundler brigade 2-0 and barely reached 150 even once.

 

What did 2002-10 Indian team do in SL 2008, they got whopped by Mendis and co.

 

That 2002-10 batting team had no spine to fight when chips were down. They had all the talent but no spine.Unlike KL rahul or Rahane who never had that talent .

 

Rookie fast bowlers had to win tests for them when they were laying eggs for more than 15 years. Tour after tour it was always about the batting not performing to help the rookie fast bowlers.

[Lord]

53 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Biggest miss for this team was Pandya not playing tests. He could have been a vital cog as 4th seamer and plugged in so many holes, as batting AR. He had the ability, even fitness since I think of him as a batting AR with not much bowling workload. But he never had the heart or desire, chased the wrong things and will probably end his career as a what if. 

 

Had he put his mind on test cricket with conviction, we could have had 1 or 2 major victories (even one WTC final or a series win in RSA) putting this team as the undisputed greatest overseas performers. 

 

Which is why I never got on Pandya hype train. Terrible attitude.

[Lord]

39 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I just can't see him doing well in tests. to be a batting AR, one should ideally avg 35+ (shane watto as opener had 42-43), and pandu's batting back then lacked solidity. nowadays it is more tight, but has lost explosively (thus diminishing value in LOIs). his bowling was fine though for 5th bowler.

 

You basically want an upgrade over Thakur and Pandya was that in both departments.

[Lord]

35 minutes ago, Number said:

Disagree. 2002-10 was the best Indian test team. 

 

This team was whitewashed by a NZ team which can not even beat BD at home.

Outplayed by the worst SA team (almost a minnow level SA team full of no name rookies) in 2021.

Couldn't beat Joe Root's England.

 

You can't be losing series after series in such embarrassing manner and be called the best team. 

 

 

They beat Joe Root's England but lost to Stokes' England

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

You basically want an upgrade over Thakur and Pandya was that in both departments.

no way was pandu an upgrade over thakur in bowling. if we compare peak thakur vs peak pandu, former could almost play as a bowler alone, both in skills and crucially in number of overs bowled. (peak) pandu could not do the latter, and even his bowling skills were not as much as peak thakur

[Gollum]

19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What did 2002-10 team do in NZ in 2003 , oh I forgot , they got whopped by NZ trundler brigade 2-0 and barely reached 150 even once.

 

What did 2002-10 Indian team do in SL 2008, they got whopped by Mendis and co.

 

That 2002-10 batting team had no spine to fight when chips were down. They had all the talent but no spine.Unlike KL rahul or Rahane who never had that talent .

 

Rookie fast bowlers had to win tests for them when they were laying eggs for more than 15 years. Tour after tour it was always about the batting not performing to help the rookie fast bowlers.

They lost a 5 test series in WI in 2002, after taking the lead. 

 

Take it back by a year and they drew 1-1 in Zim.

 

Couldn't beat SL in SL, in fact lost 2 series in the 2000s and barely drew one in 2010 after Murali had retired in Galle. A young Indian team beat a pretty strong Lankan team in 2015 from 0-1 down. 

 

Lost to Pak in 2006. 

 

Even if you take the 2007-10 period, the loss in SL was a disgrace especially if you want to call that Indian team the greatest. SL and Ind have similar conditions, so is that an admission that the 2008 Lankan team was better than the best ever Indian team? Big black mark for them. 

 

The 2007-10 team wasn't ruthless, hardly ever won more than 1 test per series even at home. Heck in 2007 they were content with drawing a test in Bangladesh. With this team, unless rain plays a big part we always see them pushing for wins even at the cost of defeat like 2014 Adelaide or '21 WTC final.....sure often it has worked against us but to be a champion side you must be prepared to lose in order to create winning opportunities. 

Edited January 4 by Gollum

[cpct]

This Indian cricket team is strong specially their fast bowlers and Virat Kohli because of prayers and blessings of stupid Indian cricket team fans. They specially do fasting and yagyas so that Indian cricket team should win any icc trophy.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

They lost a 5 test series in WI in 2002, after taking the lead. 

 

Take it back by a year and they drew 1-1 in Zim.

 

Couldn't beat SL in SL, in fact lost 2 series in the 2000s and barely drew one in 2010 after Murali had retired in Galle. A young Indian team beat a pretty strong Lankan team in 2015 from 0-1 down. 

 

Lost to Pak in 2006. 

 

Even if you take the 2007-10 period, the loss in SL was a disgrace especially if you want to call that Indian team the greatest. SL and Ind have similar conditions, so is that an admission that the 2008 Lankan team was better than the best ever Indian team? Big black mark for them. 

 

The 2007-10 team wasn't ruthless, hardly ever won more than 1 test per series even at home. Heck in 2007 they were content with drawing a test in Bangladesh. With this team, unless rain plays a big part we always see them pushing for wins even at the cost of defeat like 2014 Adelaide or '21 WTC final.....sure often it has worked against us but to be a champion side you must be prepared to loss in order to create winning opportunities. 

yes, the 2002-10 team had some duds. remember them shivering vs shaun udal, or against (shahid) afridi? both at home too

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

yes, the 2002-10 team had some duds. remember them shivering vs shaun udal, or against (shahid) afridi? both at home too

2004-06 was a nightmare period

 

BGT loss at home, could have been 0-4 also

Udal comedy, 1-1 draw

Surrender against Kaneria, Arshad, Afridi, Razzaq, Sami in Bengaluru, real low, series draw

2006 loss in Karachi

 

In SC conditions this Indian team is far better. 

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

no way was pandu an upgrade over thakur in bowling. if we compare peak thakur vs peak pandu, former could almost play as a bowler alone, both in skills and crucially in number of overs bowled. (peak) pandu could not do the latter, and even his bowling skills were not as much as peak thakur

 

Pandya took a 5fer in England and basically won us the game. Did well in SA too. 

 

He was faster, got more bounce and could move it both ways. 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Pandya took a 5fer in England and basically won us the game. Did well in SA too. 

 

He was faster, got more bounce and could move it both ways. 

peak thakur was quite sharp. and he swung it more than pandu, and could bowl more overs (which is crucial)

[deathmonger]

5 hours ago, putrevus said:

If only Bumrah showed up in important matches , India would have won series  in SA, England thus becoming only Asian country to win series in all SENA counties.

Without Bumrah those series would not have even been draws lol.

 

Bumrah cracked open Lord's and Oval and was very good in Trent Bridge before rain saved England. w/o Bumrah today, SA might have got an even bigger lead and maybe might have won.

 

MCG 2018, MCG 2020 again was pivotal as was in Wanderers and Trent Bridge 2018 which we won.

[putrevus]

10 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Pandya took a 5fer in England and basically won us the game. Did well in SA too. 

 

He was faster, got more bounce and could move it both ways. 

I don't think Pandya is the same league as Thakur in test cricket as a bowler.

 

Thakur is genuine swing bowler who has done very well across different countries.. Basically one spell of 28 deliveries was all Pandya has got as a test bowler where got 5 wickets.

 

Thakur is an upgrade over Pandya in tests any day.