Phasing out of Indian test seniors

[Gollum]

This should be the final year for Rohit, Ashwin, Shami in test cricket. Harsh as it may seem, but it is time to move on and plan the transition, father time waits for no one.

 

Rohit is obese, has lost the drive, and is mentally disturbed because of the WC F and his role in that loss, he won't recover from that. I think he should retire from all formats.

 

Ashwin is 37, same age as when Kumble retired from the game. Among spinners I can think of only Herath who played past the age of 37 and he was awful in his final 2 years. Murali, Warne retired at the age of 36...Swann 34, Saqlain 28 (real age might have been in early 30s), Lyon is 36 and you already see the steep decline despite his much superior fitness. General trend says this should be Ashwin's final year or assignment. He was never known for his fitness, and maybe the fingers are old, weary. 

 

Shami is officially 33, real age must be 36-37 I am sure. WC 2023 was his swansong, and he is injured now. Unlikely to have the zip any longer.

 

3 players who have served Indian cricket well but time to say goodbye. We have replacements for all 3, may not be like for like but still decent options. 

 

After that Jaddu, Kohli, may continue for 2 years (because of their supreme fitness)...but not in all formats please. Jaddu only in tests and Kohli should focus on tests and ODIs till 2025 CT and hopefully one more shot at the WTC F. Jaddu is already 35, and Bhajji played his last test at the age of 35 (stopped being a regular when he was 32). Kohli too 35, may be older than that but let us give him benefit of doubt.

 

By end of 2025 these 5 slots should open up, big names and long careers. Thank them for their services and move on. 

 

Already we have moved on from Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara, Rahane, Saha, Umesh, Ishant, Bhuvi. These 5 names remain and uske baad early 2010s ke debutant players se mukti. 

Edited January 31 by Gollum

[Vijy]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

This should be the final year for Rohit, Ashwin, Shami in test cricket. Harsh as it may seem, but it is time to move on and plan the transition, father time waits for no one.

 

Rohit is obese, has lost the drive, and is mentally disturbed because of the WC F and his role in that loss, he won't recover from that. I think he should retire from all formats.

 

Ashwin is 37, same age as when Kumble retired from the game. Among spinners I can think of only Herath who played past the age of 37 and he was awful in his final 2 years. Murali, Warne retired at the age of 36...Swann 34, Saqlain 28 (real age might have been in early 30s), Lyon is 36 and you already see the steep decline despite his much superior fitness. General trend says this should be Ashwin's final year or assignment. He was never known for his fitness, and maybe the fingers are old, weary. 

 

Shami is officially 33, real age must be 36-37 I am sure. WC 2023 was his swansong, and he is injured now. Unlikely to have the zip any longer.

 

3 players who have served Indian cricket well but time to say goodbye. We have replacements for all 3, may not be like for like but still decent options. 

 

After that Jaddu, Kohli, may continue for 2 years (because of their supreme fitness)...but not in all formats please. Jaddu only in tests and Kohli should focus on tests and ODIs till 2025 CT and hopefully one more shot at the WTC F. Jaddu is already 35, and Bhajji played his last test at the age of 35 (stopped being a regular when he was 32). Kohli too 35, may be older than that but let us give him benefit of doubt.

 

By end of 2025 these 5 slots should open up, big names and long careers. Thank them for their services and move on. 

 

Already we have moved on from Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara, Rahane, Saha, Umesh, Ishant, Bhuvi. These 5 names remain and uske baad early 2010s ke debutant players se mukti. 

I agree. we should have already gotten rid of Rohit by now. As for Ashwin, yes, this should be his last 1 or 2 series ideally. I am not too sure about Shami. for sure, he is older than 33, but he still has life in him as he showed in ODI WC (admittedly a different format). I can see him playing for a couple more years, albeit at max.

 

In my opinion, Jadeja should be ditched soon as well. He is utterly a supporting act in LOIs, and even in Tests, his bowling -- apart from Aus series -- has been poor in the past couple of years. he has taken imran khan route to becoming lower-middle-order batting AR (instead of a batting AR who plays in top/middle order).

 

I wanted Kohli out in 2022, but he did turn things around somewhat in 2023 (for tests). I think he can play for 2 more years as you wrote

 

P.S. Kohli is likely around 37-39 IMO.

[Majestic]

Question is who do we have ready to take the mantle?

 

In World Cup, the top 5 Indian players were:-

 

Kohli, Shami, Rohit, Bumrah and Jadeja.

 

Now, let's look at the established names in this Indian side who have atleast 5 years more in them.

 

Bumrah, Rahul, Kuldeep, Siraj, Iyer and Gill.

 

Of these, Iyer and Gill have only established in ODIs and not tests or T20s.

 

Kuldeep and Siraj are not leader materials. They are good skillful bowlers but Bumrah remains the main man in bowling. I think overall the bowling will be fine.  In home tests, Sundar, Axar and Kuldeep can replace Ashwin and Jadeja.

 

Batting is the real problem. Our best batsman in today's time is KL Rahul and he still can't take his average over 40 in a calender year.

 

 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Question is who do we have ready to take the mantle?

 

In World Cup, the top 5 Indian players were:-

 

Kohli, Shami, Rohit, Bumrah and Jadeja.

 

Now, let's look at the established names in this Indian side who have atleast 5 years more in them.

 

Bumrah, Rahul, Kuldeep, Siraj, Iyer and Gill.

 

Of these, Iyer and Gill have only established in ODIs and not tests or T20s.

 

Kuldeep and Siraj are not leader materials. They are good skillful bowlers but Bumrah remains the main man in bowling. I think overall the bowling will be fine.  In home tests, Sundar, Axar and Kuldeep can replace Ashwin and Jadeja.

 

Batting is the real problem. Our best batsman in today's time is KL Rahul and he still can't take his average over 40 in a calender year.

 

 

batting and spin bowling are both problems. in pace bowling, if we are judicious, the likes of tyagi, mayank yadav, harshit rana, etc. can complement bumrah.

[tweaker]

There are lots of players ie Patidar,Sarfaraz,Rinku,Sudharshan,Tilak,Suthar,Bishnoi,Sen,Tyagi,Saurabh,Akashdeep to replace seniors in the team.

 

The team management,Selectors have already delayed the process of introducing players in the team.Patidar,Sarfaraz,Saurabh, should have made debut by now.

 

The Team management has habit of sticking to some players ie Axar,Mukesh,Avesh and selecting them in the squad.They should introduce new players in the squad.

 

Consistent domestic players Sarfaraz,Parag,Saurabh should be selected in the squad

[Lone Wolf]

Both India and Australia are moving into drastic transition period. 

Smith is set to retire at Ashes in 2 year's time.  Same with probably Hazelwood. 

 

Starc may end up playing final test summer vs India... Along with Khawaja. 

 

Don't think they have a clear succession plan yet too... 

 

England may end up dominating test sides in this time frame. 

[Gollum]

39 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Both India and Australia are moving into drastic transition period. 

Smith is set to retire at Ashes in 2 year's time.  Same with probably Hazelwood. 

 

Starc may end up playing final test summer vs India... Along with Khawaja. 

 

Don't think they have a clear succession plan yet too... 

 

England may end up dominating test sides in this time frame. 

WTC final to be hosted in Eng in 2025 and 2027 as well. Big advantage for Poms. 

[harpicP]

5 hours ago, Vijy said:

I agree. we should have already gotten rid of Rohit by now. As for Ashwin, yes, this should be his last 1 or 2 series ideally. I am not too sure about Shami. for sure, he is older than 33, but he still has life in him as he showed in ODI WC (admittedly a different format). I can see him playing for a couple more years, albeit at max.

 

In my opinion, Jadeja should be ditched soon as well. He is utterly a supporting act in LOIs, and even in Tests, his bowling -- apart from Aus series -- has been poor in the past couple of years. he has taken imran khan route to becoming lower-middle-order batting AR (instead of a batting AR who plays in top/middle order).

 

I wanted Kohli out in 2022, but he did turn things around somewhat in 2023 (for tests). I think he can play for 2 more years as you wrote

 

P.S. Kohli is likely around 37-39 IMO.

Give enough chances to youngsters beauties from ranji ( ones that are good vs short ball etc)  as many chances as kohli and gilly boy gets then 100% they do significantly better and contribute to many indian wins

[Number]

Same as 2012-13 we have been caught by England in our bad time.

At least 2012-13 we could see light at the end of tunnel with Pujara, Kohli, Ashwin showing lots of promise.

Now we have players like Iyer.

[LordPrabhzy]

56 minutes ago, Number said:

Same as 2012-13 we have been caught by England in our bad time.

At least 2012-13 we could see light at the end of tunnel with Pujara, Kohli, Ashwin showing lots of promise.

Now we have players like Iyer.

and Gill..and fatso Rohit doesnt seem to want to give up playing tests

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, harpicP said:

Give enough chances to youngsters beauties from ranji ( ones that are good vs short ball etc)  as many chances as kohli and gilly boy gets then 100% they do significantly better and contribute to many indian wins

beauties? which beauties do you have in mind?

[harpicP]

48 minutes ago, Vijy said:

beauties? which beauties do you have in mind?

Lol!!

Surf excel turbo blaster motu boy

 

Partidar

Sundar

Pradosh

Jurel

 

All of them seem good and better than gilly ans iyer. 

 

Atleast in Asia. 

Don't mind saurab kumar either. 

 

 

[Chaos]

No one is going anywhere for another year or maybe even 2. So we need stop crying as it is inevitable. I dont want rohit to be out of odi or t20s. Vk can be in odis for for few years. You cant drop all the seniors for bozos to shine like the great avesh, fraudnoi and many other fraudsters like indian express mukesh.

Edited January 31 by Chaos

[putrevus]

Which youngster other than Pant had stepped up in test cricket.Whiteball we still don't have any answers.

 

Last World cup was still about Kohli and Rohit. Same story of decade continued, if both fail to take India to more than reasonable score India will fail.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Which youngster other than Pant had stepped up in test cricket.Whiteball we still don't have any answers.

 

Last World cup was still about Kohli and Rohit. Same story of decade continued, if both fail to take India to more than reasonable score India will fail.

 

 

How many years it took Rohit to step in ?

How much time it took for Kohli to become the reliable player he is now ? Kohli was a tailender in 2012 Test tour vs Anderson.

 

Rohit debuted in 2007, Kohli in 2008..both till 2011 were giving flash of pan performances here and there. Why suddenly the expectation benchmarks are escalated higher ?

 

Jaiswal is finding his feet, hasn't done too bad so far considering his style of batting. Gill had a reasonably successful 2023 only to slide down in last few months. 

 

I am all for dropping the players if they are 30+ and are doing nothing for a considerable period of time. But youngsters who are under 25 still have time to get in groove...it's easy to slide down these days considering the distractions and amount of cricket being played and the higher priority of white ball cricket.

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

How many years it took Rohit to step in ?

How much time it took for Kohli to become the reliable player he is now ? Kohli was a tailender in 2012 Test tour vs Anderson.

 

Rohit debuted in 2007, Kohli in 2008..both till 2011 were giving flash of pan performances here and there. Why suddenly the expectation benchmarks are escalated higher ?

 

Jaiswal is finding his feet, hasn't done too bad so far considering his style of batting. Gill had a reasonably successful 2023 only to slide down in last few months. 

 

I am all for dropping the players if they are 30+ and are doing nothing for a considerable period of time. But youngsters who are under 25 still have time to get in groove...it's easy to slide down these days considering the distractions and amount of cricket being played and the higher priority of white ball cricket.

Kohli was tailender in 2014 against England , Who was better on that tour?? Kohli made test debut in 2011 not 2008. By that he had already was leading Indian batting in SA, NZ and Australia. Failing in one country is not a big deal.

 

Dravid's avg in SA and SL are under 30 or low 30s after playing 160 plus tests.

 

Kohli made debut in odis in 2008, he was never dropped because he was very good in odis straight away.He did play small but cruicial role in 2011 finals and 2013 CT finals.

 

Rohit since 2013 once he was made into opener odis  has not looked back in whiteball cricket. I don't consider Rohit a test batsman.

 

KL Rahul is playing since 2014 , can he be reliable?  Would you make him captain if Rohit is kicked out which he should given his body and his useless captaincy.

 

While I understand it will take time for Jaiswal,  I am not asking for any youngster to be kicked out.

 

Gill who I was very high on as batsman has struggled big time.

 

I completely understand youngsters need time,but we knew in tests in after 0-8 2012 debacle we had Pujara , Kohli, Vijay and Rahane to carry the batting.

 

Who are those core batsmen for this team for next decade.

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Kohli was tailender in 2014 against England , Who was better on that tour?? Kohli made test debut in 2011 not 2008. By that he had already was leading Indian batting in SA, NZ and Australia. Failing in one country is not a big deal.

 

Dravid's avg in SA and SL are under 30 or low 30s after playing 160 plus tests.

 

Kohli made debut in odis in 2008, he was never dropped because he was very good in odis straight away.He did play small but cruicial role in 2011 finals and 2013 CT finals.

 

Rohit since 2013 once he was made into opener odis  has not looked back in whiteball cricket. I don't consider Rohit a test batsman.

 

KL Rahul is playing since 2014 , can he be reliable?  Would you make him captain if Rohit is kicked out which he should given his body and his useless captaincy.

 

While I understand it will take time for Jaiswal,  I am not asking for any youngster to be kicked out.

 

Gill who I was very high on as batsman has struggled big time.

 

I completely understand youngsters need time,but we knew in tests in after 0-8 2012 debacle we had Pujara , Kohli, Vijay and Rahane to carry the batting.

 

Who are those core batsmen for this team for next decade.

Problem is how we will get the next gen batters if we don't give them chances ?

 

KLR is a failure, but we are still sticking with him coz our coach rates him very highly, Iyer is always a lottery outside of subcontinent due to his short ball problem.

 

Outside of these 2 (& Gill, Jaiswal) in domestics we have Baba Indrajith, Rohan, Kunnummal, Ankit Bawne, Sarfaraz, Patidar, Vihari, Pradosh Ranjan Paul, N Jagadeesan as few batter who average  close to or Above 50 in FC. Even Sai Sudharshan & Gaekwad can also be a useful addition to Test team. Problem is no one has any idea how good they are except the ones we see in IPL coz BCCI don't telecast Ranji Trophy.

 

[Suhaan]

This multi format player chewtapa must stop ,we as fans  should also stop making this cringe expectation

With each passing year and world trophy we are getting reminded that we need format specialists

Tests Odis and t20s should be kept purely separate

At most few of the standouts may excell in two of the formats,the urge of Lois and shot manufacturing habit infiltrates into tests(although they don't use sweeps and reverse sweeps ,scoops,ramp shots that much in Lois)

Player burnout is another con of having multi format guys ,BCCI is deluded to expect having multi format greats after Kohli,they are expecting too much with Lois evolving like anything,they need to market format specialists

Market cricket not cricketers,fans too will move on from celebrating superstars soon

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Problem is how we will get the next gen batters if we don't give them chances ?

 

KLR is a failure, but we are still sticking with him coz our coach rates him very highly, Iyer is always a lottery outside of subcontinent due to his short ball problem.

 

Outside of these 2 (& Gill, Jaiswal) in domestics we have Baba Indrajith, Rohan, Kunnummal, Ankit Bawne, Sarfaraz, Patidar, Vihari, Pradosh Ranjan Paul, N Jagadeesan as few batter who average  close to or Above 50 in FC. Even Sai Sudharshan & Gaekwad can also be a useful addition to Test team. Problem is no one has any idea how good they are except the ones we see in IPL coz BCCI don't telecast Ranji Trophy.

 

See , I don't believe in giving chances to yougsters in all three formats without them proving themselves in one or two formats.

 

Kohli is the best example, he made his debut in odis in 2008 but only played test cricket in 2011 after he proved himself in odis. He was still dropped from test team after he was found wanting against pace bowling of Fidel Edwards in WI for his next tour of England in 2011.

 

Second not everyone who has good domestic stats is a good player.Sarfraz might be very iffy against pace bowling IMO, Vihari is useless, I rather have washed up Pujara over Vihari.Pujara is still doing far better than many players you mentioned even today in Ranjis.

 

Prasidh Krishna was rated so high by many on here before SA some even were complaing on if he was selected in ICC tests finals India was winning it. I never rated him and we all saw him what happened in SA.

 

Youngsters should be given chance in one format and they need to earn the place in other formats.

 

Test caps cannot given cheaply, it devalues test cricket .

 

You don't need to see 100 matches to spot talent. 

Edited January 31 by putrevus

[putrevus]

One more thing some geniuses are complaining ,multiformat players should be stopped, why if player is good enough to play all three formats, he should be allowed to do so.

 

Players who do very well in one format even if it is just t20s will get chance to prove themselves in other formats, SKY got to play all three formats but he flopped, SKY cannot complain he never got chances.India punted on him in odis and lost.Aussies punted of Head and won.