cowboysfan Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, coffee_rules said: SC will only interpret the new law as per our constitution, they cannot overturn laws. Legislation can overturn the SC overturn with a majority like Congress did in Shah Bano case. Persecuted Muslims in Pakistan and BD have 52 other Islamic countries to seek asylum from. There is no other country for persecuted dharmics it can argued that it is not a secular law as per our Constitution,imo if the SC takes up the case they will strike it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raki05 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, coffee_rules said: Very popular Lol what a bitch slap to this jihadi aurat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 15 minutes ago, cowboysfan said: it can argued that it is not a secular law as per our Constitution,imo if the SC takes up the case they will strike it down. Constitution is secular only since 1975. Partition happened in 1947 when Ind was not secular as per Ambedkar’s version. Hence, it can be argued that the secular fabric is not applied to this law. Moreover it is on humanitarian grounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, AshVin said: Jinnah was a Shia. Ahmadiyas played a huge role in creating Pakistan. Shias and Ahmadiyas can seek refuge in the 50+ Islamic countries if they want. India has zero obligation to accept Shias or Ahmadiyas. Sorry, Disagree with your statement. Pakistan is Islamic Republic of Pakistan not Ahmedia and Shia Republic of Pakistan. Congress was representing Indian at the time of Partition. But it failed spectacularly and suddenly there was Muslim league representing Muslims of India. It was supported by other small factions like Barelvis Ahmedias Rajakars (present day Hyderbad) but effectively a country was divided. One which was for Muslims and other which was for everyone living in Partitioned boundry of India who denounced idea of creation of Pakistan as Heaven of Islam. IMO, just like CAA where by we accept religious minorities from Pakistan, Pakistan should also come up with a law which should let migration of all the Muslims who agree with idea of Pakistan as they also need space in Jinnahs Islamic Republic Pakistan. Today, Pakistan cant blame English in not providing non Muslims a safe passage to India likewise Indians cant blame English NOT providing safe passage to Muslims who want to live in Islamic republic of Pakistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 hours ago, mishra said: On what ground, the migration happened in 1947. Non Muslims were told that they are free to migrate. Its just that Muslims accepted some Hindus to stay in their country to do menial jobs. How can anyone expect someone who lives on menial jobs like cleaning street and gutter afford to move to India in 1947. Offcouse some middleclass were foxed to stay in Pakistan but later converted to Islam or still living a life of second grade citizen So, I differ in opinion. I believe India and Indians have moral responsibilty. Independence we got for Indians and fruits belong to all and not just ones who are on Indian side. Indian Minorities on other side of India didnt have option. PS: You yourself are terming them as Tribals in earlier update goes to proove the theory that they didnt had option to moove to India in 1947 and were forced to live in Pakistan No we don't... We don't have any obligation whatsoever. We are doing this on humanitarian grounds. A regular tax paying Indian living in the country doesn't owes jack s*t to these people. There are various reasons they didn't came to India in 47... Mostly coz of choice. As per the Swati Goel example when she told them they are tribals they knew what gifts they will be getting in India over this and celebrated. Mirpuris had to flee their homes in bet war... With Thousands dying.. They made the effort to migrate. And were given respect and citizenship. West Pak refugees followed same suit. As I am strongly against reservation coz it leads further division among Hindus these CAA beneficiary folks should be barred from having same benefits unlike a regular Indian... From a PR perspective it has been a disaster already. Although we are doing a big humanitarian service on our part even though it serves us nothing in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, mishra said: Sorry, Disagree with your statement. Pakistan is Islamic Republic of Pakistan not Ahmedia and Shia Republic of Pakistan. Congress was representing Indian at the time of Partition. But it failed spectacularly and suddenly there was Muslim league representing Muslims of India. It was supported by other small factions like Barelvis Ahmedias Rajakars (present day Hyderbad) but effectively a country was divided. One which was for Muslims and other which was for everyone living in Partitioned boundry of India who denounced idea of creation of Pakistan as Heaven of Islam. IMO, just like CAA where by we accept religious minorities from Pakistan, Pakistan should also come up with a law which should let migration of all the Muslims who agree with idea of Pakistan as they also need space in Jinnahs Islamic Republic Pakistan. Today, Pakistan cant blame English in not providing non Muslims a safe passage to India likewise Indians cant blame English NOT providing safe passage to Muslims who want to live in Islamic republic of Pakistan But thing is no one wants to live in Islamic Republic of Pakistan... Especially after they know what happens to Muhajirs over there. Their PM can bark all he wants to do but who will want to leave India? Many would prefer to go to Turkey if given a choice though but Turks won't accept Mujeets coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 8 hours ago, cowboysfan said: CAA assumes muslims are not discriminated in our neighbouring countries but that is not true,the killing of Shias and other muslims sects supports that.I think Supreme Court might overturn this because of that,lets see if they take up the case. Irrelevant and you haven't read about CAA or its context. Left liberals have really shown themselves up on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, mishra said: Sorry, Disagree with your statement. Pakistan is Islamic Republic of Pakistan not Ahmedia and Shia Republic of Pakistan. Congress was representing Indian at the time of Partition. But it failed spectacularly and suddenly there was Muslim league representing Muslims of India. It was supported by other small factions like Barelvis Ahmedias Rajakars (present day Hyderbad) but effectively a country was divided. One which was for Muslims and other which was for everyone living in Partitioned boundry of India who denounced idea of creation of Pakistan as Heaven of Islam. IMO, just like CAA where by we accept religious minorities from Pakistan, Pakistan should also come up with a law which should let migration of all the Muslims who agree with idea of Pakistan as they also need space in Jinnahs Islamic Republic Pakistan. Today, Pakistan cant blame English in not providing non Muslims a safe passage to India likewise Indians cant blame English NOT providing safe passage to Muslims who want to live in Islamic republic of Pakistan What he means is Pakistan was a Sunni sect creation out of India movement. It was a dream of UP Lakhnavi/Barelvi Sunni Muslims and they had a coalition with Shias to gain support. They promised Ahmeddiyas recognition into Uslam and all sects wholeheartedly voted for Pakistan creation in 1946 polls. Given that history, if they are discriminated in Pakistan now, India owes no obligation to give them refuge in india. They can go to any Islamic country that they choose. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 46 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: What he means is Pakistan was a Sunni sect creation out of India movement. It was a dream of UP Lakhnavi/Barelvi Sunni Muslims and they had a coalition with Shias to gain support. They promised Ahmeddiyas recognition into Uslam and all sects wholeheartedly voted for Pakistan creation in 1946 polls. Given that history, if they are discriminated in Pakistan now, India owes no obligation to give them refuge in india. They can go to any Islamic country that they choose. Moreover, Ahmediyyas were actively driving the partition. CAA is finally down to the roots of partition, which was religion. Their intra religious fights have nothing to do with CAA. Either ways, the law doesn't rule out muslim from getting citizenship. But he / she will not be fast tracked since the persecuted minority will be prioritized. That too those who have already come here for Apr 2014. mishra, coffee_rules and Muloghonto 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: What he means is Pakistan was a Sunni sect creation out of India movement. It was a dream of UP Lakhnavi/Barelvi Sunni Muslims and they had a coalition with Shias to gain support. They promised Ahmeddiyas recognition into Uslam and all sects wholeheartedly voted for Pakistan creation in 1946 polls. Given that history, if they are discriminated in Pakistan now, India owes no obligation to give them refuge in india. They can go to any Islamic country that they choose. Yes, but fact is it was joint effort of various sects and NOT just sunni sect or Shia sects or deobandi or Barelvi or ahmedia or xyz sect. So India has no obligation to any of them as they got what they wanted. Just like we have obligations towards non Muslim of Pakistan,Same way Pakistan has obligation to welcome all those Muslims living in India who wants a nation specific to their religion and feel oppressed in India to welcome with open arms. We (both Indian and Pakistanis) should be clear in that. Edited March 12 by mishra Muloghonto and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 Another classic dumb bella… WHAT'S WRONG WITH INDIA? pic.twitter.com/I5ZYoAS7b8 — Divya Gandotra Tandon (@divya_gandotra) March 12, 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Another classic dumb bella… She sounds like our @Lone Wolf I think people need to understand Hindus are essentially ones who belong to India irrespective of where they live. If they are persecuted in that country, Its basically hurting every Indian coffee_rules and Muloghonto 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattaca Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 21 hours ago, cowboysfan said: CAA assumes muslims are not discriminated in our neighbouring countries but that is not true,the killing of Shias and other muslims sects supports that.I think Supreme Court might overturn this because of that,lets see if they take up the case. I remember BJP’s stand is Muslims can go to many other Muslims countries whereas non Muslims can’t ex Hindus , Sikhs and Jains they are of this land. India is the only country where they had roots from. Talking about Muslim minorities if you didn’t know Ahmadis in Pakistan are major contributors to partition of India. They proudly lists on their site. Shias can go to Iran. The Muslims also choose Pakistan not India at partition they didn’t want to live India they wanted an Islamic state. The big problem is also they are quite all along with atrocities on Hindus , Sikhs and Jains. Now that the pakjabis have turned on them they want out. Edited March 13 by gattaca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattaca Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) The toolkit has been deployed to twitter. The hashtag is Indianotsafe even UN has also issued statements against India for CAA and even U.S. "As we said in 2019, we are concerned that CAA is fundamentally discriminatory in nature and in breach of India's international human rights obligations," a spokesperson of the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights told Reuters. He added the office was studying whether the law's implementation rules comply with international human rights law. The US has also signalled reservations. "We are concerned about the notification of CAA on March 11. We are closely monitoring how this act will be implemented," a state department spokesperson told Reuters separately. "Respect for religious freedom and equal treatment under the law for all communities are fundamental democratic principles," the spokesperson added. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/us-and-un-express-concern-about-caa/amp_articleshow/108443961.cms Edited March 13 by gattaca coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 19 hours ago, coffee_rules said: CAA is only for those already applied for citizenship before cutoff of 2014. Rohingyas already here are left ving in colonies ghettos and can easily be identified. The Dalits applying for citizenship is a minuscule percentage to outrage about govt jobs being taken away by refugees Pre-2014 condition is not an ideal solution. There are still many prosecuted Hindus, Christians, and Sikhs in Pakistan who need help. My heart cries upon their suffering. Shias should be taken by Iran, which does not have a big population. While Ahmadis have already been taken by the West. PS: The MOST prosecuted people in Pakistan are ex-Muslims. They are oppressed more than any Hindu/Sikh or Ahmadi/Shia by MILES. By law, their children will be immediately separated from them (as children are considered Muslims by birth), and they cannot inherit from their parents, and they will be killed as soon as they declare themselves ex-Muslims. All ex-Muslims in Pakistan are living a life of extreme fear. They don't know when they are going to be caught and killed by mobs or sent to prison by the Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 15 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Pre-2014 condition is not an ideal solution. There are still many prosecuted Hindus, Christians, and Sikhs in Pakistan who need help. My heart cries upon their suffering. Shias should be taken by Iran, which does not have a big population. While Ahmadis have already been taken by the West. PS: The MOST prosecuted people in Pakistan are ex-Muslims. They are oppressed more than any Hindu/Sikh or Ahmadi/Shia by MILES. By law, their children will be immediately separated from them (as children are considered Muslims by birth), and they cannot inherit from their parents, and they will be killed as soon as they declare themselves ex-Muslims. All ex-Muslims in Pakistan are living a life of extreme fear. They don't know when they are going to be caught and killed by mobs or sent to prison by the Government. That's all irrelevant. This law is about religious minorities being discriminated by the majority. Nothing else. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, gattaca said: The toolkit has been deployed to twitter. The hashtag is Indianotsafe even UN has also issued statements against India for CAA and even U.S. "As we said in 2019, we are concerned that CAA is fundamentally discriminatory in nature and in breach of India's international human rights obligations," a spokesperson of the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights told Reuters. He added the office was studying whether the law's implementation rules comply with international human rights law. The US has also signalled reservations. "We are concerned about the notification of CAA on March 11. We are closely monitoring how this act will be implemented," a state department spokesperson told Reuters separately. "Respect for religious freedom and equal treatment under the law for all communities are fundamental democratic principles," the spokesperson added. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/us-and-un-express-concern-about-caa/amp_articleshow/108443961.cms The US can go eff itself, as the US itself has its own CAA laws. Look up Lautenberg amendment - its LITERALLY accepting refugee status for religious minorities from the former soviet union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 2 hours ago, Muloghonto said: The US can go eff itself, as the US itself has its own CAA laws. Look up Lautenberg amendment - its LITERALLY accepting refugee status for religious minorities from the former soviet union. Only the first world can think on high humanitarian moral grounds , against sophisticated words like anti-semitism , rehabilitation of Holocaust survivors etc. How can similar plight of non-Muslims in a country supported by the first world NATo be equated to their similar act? How dare a third world country have such high moral values? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 In b4 somebody RRs about NRIs dividing India in wholeheartedly supporting CAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) 3 hours ago, Muloghonto said: That's all irrelevant. This law is about religious minorities being discriminated by the majority. Nothing else. Morally, Law has been desiggned on fact that there was a Undivided India which from which a religion based Muslim State was carved out in 1947 with a direction to Citizens on both sides that Pakistan will accept Muslim Immigratinon whiie India will accept non Muslim Immigration from Undivided India. Please note that Pakistan was created on fears that Muslims will be under Hindus in India, While Hindus(Sikhs jains Buddhist included) feared their way of life be impacted if Pakistan is created and hence respective immigration was acceptable to both Nations. So principally law is extending the cutoff Date til 2014 of the promise of our Founding fathers. THats why I say, Pakistan and Afghanistan and Bangladesh must extend their deadline. Infact All 4 nations should sign a treaty that they will continue to accept such immigration indefinitely Edited March 13 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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