India's test XI of this millennium ( post 2000)

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

1. Virender Sehwag

2. Tough to choose, will go with Gambhir

3. Dravid

4. Tendulkar

5. Kohli

6. Laxman

7. Pant (wk)

8. Jadeja

9. Kumble

10. Shami

11. Bumrah

 

 

If Rohit has great Australian series then he will come into picture?

[Chakdephatte]

4 hours ago, Praveen 06 said:

Highest % of Team runs for India in Test
(min 5000 runs)

16.55 - Sunil Gavaskar 
15.06 - Virat Kohli 
14.82 - Sachin Tendulkar 
14.76 - Rahul Dravid 
14.68 - Virender Sehwag
13.82 - G Vishwanath 
13.36 - C Pujara

 

Gavaskar > Kohli > sachin

By the end of his career, he will have a lower share than Sachin. 

 

The difference is not too big already. And the fact that he maintained it for 200 tests. 

[singhvivek141]

26 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If Rohit has great Australian series then he will come into picture?

Yes, he can.

We never had a super strong opener partnering Sehwag...Gambhir was good for few years but declined sharply.

Jaffer, DK, Chopra, VJ, Shib Sundar Das, Deep Das Gupta...we tried so many openers. Even Yuvraj opened for some time, nothing worked.

[Majestic]

41 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

You dont make a team without the best ever batsman in tests after bradman,i am sorry to say. 

 

Yes next time if we make an India T20I all time XI, we will include Tendulkar there as well just because his worshippers recommends.

 

In terms of sheer impact post 2000, Sehwag,Dravid, Laxman and Kohli has more impact than Tendulkar.

[Ultimate_Game]

43 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

this whole 3 spinner vs 1 spinner overseas is fine and dandy if you got pace bowlers like Australia or West Indies. 

The basic rule of thumb is, you play your best players and then tinker with ' horses for the courses' methodology. For eg, if its a total green top wicket and my choice is between picking Muralitharan or Pandya, ofcourse i will pick Murali 10 times out of 10. As it stands, except for Kapil, Srinath, Shami and Bumrah, there isn't a pace bowler in India thats better than Kumble. So kumble gets in. 

 

 

If it's cloudy and seaming someone like Shardul Thakur would be better than Ashwin or Kumble. Or going with Zaheer or any other pacer would be better. Packing 3 spinners irrespective of conditions won't win you much.

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Yes, he can.

We never had a super strong opener partnering Sehwag...Gambhir was good for few years but declined sharply.

Jaffer, DK, Chopra, VJ, Shib Sundar Das, Deep Das Gupta...we tried so many openers. Even Yuvraj opened for some time, nothing worked.

Theoretically, Sehwag's ideal partner is Gavaskar - someone with extremely good defensive technique. 
Trouble is, you rarely find excellent defensive technique batsmen in the last 25 years- Dravid and Chanderpaul were pretty much last of the defensive greats.  How do you know a batsman is defensively great ? Simple - there are two tests for this: 
 

1. Acute awareness of where the offstump is, which manifests in the ability to leave balls well. Anyone can leave a ball that is half a foot outside the offstump, what takes skill is leaving a ball that you know will miss off stump by 2 centimeters. 

 

2. Defensively great batsmen rarely get out to defensive strokes, especially when its not Lbw. They mostly get out to offensive strokes.

 

During Sehwag's period, we didn't have a very good defensive opener for Sehwag - not that anyone else did either outside of Cook ( who imo was not great defensively but very good). And batsmen LIKE Sehwag, who can go run-a-ball in tests routinely is even more rare. 

So you end up with players like SS Das, Gambhir etc. who are 'regular' - not great defensively, not great offensively and these types will often suffer from a 'Dhoni ka kutta' syndrome when batting with ultra-defensive or ultra-aggressive players : will get out trying to 'match the swashbuckler' or 'by being too defensive'. 

 

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Yes next time if we make an India T20I all time XI, we will include Tendulkar there as well just because his worshippers recommends.

 

In terms of sheer impact post 2000, Sehwag,Dravid, Laxman and Kohli has more impact than Tendulkar.

 

Learning to read would be a good skill for you. I clear-cut said the 2nd best test batsman ever, in a thread about test XI. 
Impact is a bullshit nebulous nonsense crap. You score runs = you have impact. period. No one is a freaking fortune teller to know if your match will end in a draw or a win 3 days from now to validate/invalidate your impact. 

 

[Majestic]

I don't understand why Sachin worshippers are triggered. His career's best performances came in 90s and he was absolutely top tier ATG level . Post 2000s, he was good but a bit of stat booster like Mohammad Yousuf, scored a lot of runs vs Bangladesh and Zimbabwe and against Australia in Sydney.

 

Dravid, Kohli, Sehwag and Laxman are top class test batters and if they are better batsman than Sachin's less impactful second half of his career, they shouldn't be disappointed unless they have acknowledged him as 'GOD'.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2024 by Majestic

[Majestic]

Bumrah, Shami and Zak form a formidable pace attack. 

 

Ashwin and Kumble either can be picked depending on the form or conditions.

 

Jadeja is a perfect all rounder to have at #7 and a lefty option.

 

VVS is a clutch batter and one of the best pressure players India ever had in whites.

 

Dravid was pivotal in India's success overseas. He taught India with bat how to win matches overseas.

 

Sehwag revolutionized India's test match opening and set a strong foundation for the middle order.

 

Tendulkar and Pujara were close but misses out.

[singhvivek141]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Theoretically, Sehwag's ideal partner is Gavaskar - someone with extremely good defensive technique. 
Trouble is, you rarely find excellent defensive technique batsmen in the last 25 years- Dravid and Chanderpaul were pretty much last of the defensive greats.  How do you know a batsman is defensively great ? Simple - there are two tests for this: 
 

1. Acute awareness of where the offstump is, which manifests in the ability to leave balls well. Anyone can leave a ball that is half a foot outside the offstump, what takes skill is leaving a ball that you know will miss off stump by 2 centimeters. 

 

2. Defensively great batsmen rarely get out to defensive strokes, especially when its not Lbw. They mostly get out to offensive strokes.

 

During Sehwag's period, we didn't have a very good defensive opener for Sehwag - not that anyone else did either outside of Cook ( who imo was not great defensively but very good). And batsmen LIKE Sehwag, who can go run-a-ball in tests routinely is even more rare. 

So you end up with players like SS Das, Gambhir etc. who are 'regular' - not great defensively, not great offensively and these types will often suffer from a 'Dhoni ka kutta' syndrome when batting with ultra-defensive or ultra-aggressive players : will get out trying to 'match the swashbuckler' or 'by being too defensive'. 

 

Agree, Sehwag's ideal partner would have been Gavaskar.

Although, apart from Dravid & Chanderpaul..even Kallis & to a large extend even Mike Hussey had a very solid defensive technique.

 

There are exceptions, but I have seen some extremely great example of defensive inns from swashbuckling batters like ABD, Gibbs. An example below

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/south-africa-tour-of-west-indies-2005-61837/west-indies-vs-south-africa-1st-test-64131/live-cricket-score

 

 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

If it's cloudy and seaming someone like Shardul Thakur would be better than Ashwin or Kumble. Or going with Zaheer or any other pacer would be better. Packing 3 spinners irrespective of conditions won't win you much.

 

If you pick Shardul over Kumble even on a green-top WACA with cross-breeze ( allegedly THE BEST seaming & bouncing condition on the planet), you will still see lesser results than with picking kumble, provided you dont give Shardul the new ball. A mediocre pacer isnt a better option than an excellent spinner even on pacey conditions. 

Plus, the main consideration for picking a 3rd seamer, is their ability to bowl with the worst ball condition possible - after the shine has gone, but before its old enough to reverse. This is the hardest job for a pacer and typically, the only successful 3rd/4th pacers in international cricket are those who have good pace AND significant bounce - because movement is going to be non-existent for the ball that is older than 15 overs and younger than 50 overs. As the likes of Lee, Waqar, etc found out ( high pace, not high bounce pacers), if your ball isnt moving and it isnt bouncing, the faster you bowl, the faster it goes to the boundary. 

The three most successful 3rd/4th pacer i've ever seen are Garner, Walsh and Hazlewood - and they all have one thing in common: big bounce. 
Zaheer for eg, is a pretty good opening bowler and reverse swing bowler, but is that going to be his role in the lineup ? No. Why ? Because both Bumrah and Shami are better than Zaheer with the new ball and with reverse swing. 
So Zaheer gets stuck bowling in the shitty 15-50 over mark. And if you'd seen Zaheer, he was an absolute club-level bowler when the ball wasnt moving, because he is also a low bounce pacer. Not that its a necessarily big drag on Zaheer- lots of excellent pace bowlers suck at this period due to not being a high bounce bowler, like Lee, Waqar, Starc, Johnson, Anderson, etc. 

 

So when i pick the bowlers for this lineup, i look at it this way: 

Overs 0-15 : Bumrah+Shami

Overs 16-50: ???????

Overs 50-80: Bumrah+Shami+spinners

 

So who are the bowlers who can handle the 16-50 overs region best ? Answer is from the group that consists of Ashwin,Jadeja, Kumble & Bhajji. 

All 4 of them are categorically better than the available options of Ishant,Zaheer, Siraj, etc. in THIS period of the game. So its Ashwin,Jadeja & Kumble for me. 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

18 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I don't understand why Sachin worshippers are triggered. His career's best performances came in 90s and he was absolutely top tier ATG level . Post 2000s, he was good but a bit of stat booster like Mohammad Yousuf, scored a lot of runs vs Bangladesh and Zimbabwe and against Australia in Sydney.

 

Dravid, Kohli, Sehwag and Laxman are top class test batters and if they are better batsman than Sachin's less impactful second half of his career, they shouldn't be disappointed unless they have acknowledged him as 'GOD'.

 

 

Scoring runs vs Australia in Sydney isnt a knock on tendulkar. 

There is no such thing as being more impactful a batter in tests. That is a nonsense concept. 

 

As i said, when you pick a test XI, whether it be for  for alltime world, 5 names are automatic selections, rest are all debatable : Gavaskar, theDon, Tendulkar, Sobers and Marshall. Stands to reason that an automatic selection for world XI would be an automatic selection for their national XI, especially if they qualify for the timeperiod set as well, which is the case here. 

 

The competition for VVS is Kohli. Not Tendulkar. its a tossup between them for who gets the #5 position IMO. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2024 by Muloghonto

[R!TTER]

10 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Dravid, Kohli, Sehwag and Laxman are top class test batters and if they are better batsman than Sachin's less impactful second half of his career, they shouldn't be disappointed unless they have acknowledged themselves as 'GOD'.

Batting in 2000's was a lot easier because of the pitches. Maybe if you knew/remembered this fact you wouldn't bring up the BS about stat booster? Admittedly he did underperform as compared to his peak half a decade back, then I guess you also forgot this?

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date between 31 Jan 2007 and 31 Jan 2011

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by runs scored (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
AN Cook (ENG)	2007-2011	22	39	3	2030	235*	56.38	4192	48.42	6	12	2	220	3
SR Tendulkar (IND)	2007-2011	19	36	3	1876	203	56.84	3411	54.99	6	8	0	231	13
SM Katich (AUS)	2008-2010	19	35	2	1670	157	50.60	3617	46.17	6	7	1	196	3
GC Smith (SA)	2007-2010	17	32	3	1588	154*	54.75	2837	55.97	5	6	1	187	6
VVS Laxman (IND)	2007-2011	19	35	5	1556	124*	51.86	3059	50.86	3	11	0	192	1
HM Amla (SA)	2007-2010	17	31	4	1551	253*	57.44	3127	49.60	5	7	2	185	2
AJ Strauss (ENG)	2008-2011	19	33	2	1544	177	49.80	3018	51.15	7	4	4	185	3
CH Gayle (WI)	2007-2010	16	29	2	1517	333	56.18	2100	72.23	4	4	2	186	34
KP Pietersen (ENG)	2007-2011	22	36	2	1477	227	43.44	2601	56.78	4	5	2	169	10
RT Ponting (AUS)	2008-2010	19	34	0	1477	158	43.44	2462	59.99	3	9	1	178	9
AB de Villiers (SA)	2007-2010	17	29	7	1460	217*	66.36	2870	50.87	4	7	0	146	10
PD Collingwood (ENG)	2007-2011	22	35	2	1394	161	42.24	3006	46.37	3	8	1	155	7
JH Kallis (SA)	2007-2010	17	30	4	1378	173	53.00	2834	48.62	6	5	0	135	11
MJ Clarke (AUS)	2008-2010	18	32	3	1302	168	44.89	2415	53.91	5	5	4	156	4
V Sehwag (IND)	2008-2011	14	26	1	1262	201*	50.48	1498	84.24	4	4	2	183	11
IR Bell (ENG)	2007-2011	18	31	3	1234	140	44.07	2649	46.58	3	8	0	142	6
S Chanderpaul (WI)	2007-2010	15	25	6	1156	136*	60.84	2845	40.63	4	8	3	117	5
MEK Hussey (AUS)	2008-2010	19	34	0	1131	146	33.26	2671	42.34	2	8	3	138	2
R Dravid (IND)	2007-2011	19	37	3	1040	93	30.58	2893	35.94	0	8	0	135	1
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)	2007-2009	9	16	0	1039	275	64.93	1866	55.68	4	0	1	121	1

[singhvivek141]

11 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I don't understand why Sachin worshippers are triggered. His career's best performances came in 90s and he was absolutely top tier ATG level . Post 2000s, he was good but a bit of stat booster like Mohammad Yousuf, scored a lot of runs vs Bangladesh and Zimbabwe and against Australia in Sydney.

 

Dravid, Kohli, Sehwag and Laxman are top class test batters and if they are better batsman than Sachin's less impactful second half of his career, they shouldn't be disappointed unless they have acknowledged themselves as 'GOD'.

 

So his centuries in Hamilton, Centurion & Capetown at age of 37-38 is mere statpadding ?

FYI...Sachin last played vs Zim in 2002 when they were still a decent side.

 

[Majestic]

5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Batting in 2000's was a lot easier because of the pitches. Maybe if you knew/remembered this fact you wouldn't bring up the BS about stat booster? Admittedly he did underperform as compared to his peak half a decade back, then I guess you also forgot this?

Opposition team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date between 31 Jan 2007 and 31 Jan 2011

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by runs scored (descending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
AN Cook (ENG)	2007-2011	22	39	3	2030	235*	56.38	4192	48.42	6	12	2	220	3
SR Tendulkar (IND)	2007-2011	19	36	3	1876	203	56.84	3411	54.99	6	8	0	231	13
SM Katich (AUS)	2008-2010	19	35	2	1670	157	50.60	3617	46.17	6	7	1	196	3
GC Smith (SA)	2007-2010	17	32	3	1588	154*	54.75	2837	55.97	5	6	1	187	6
VVS Laxman (IND)	2007-2011	19	35	5	1556	124*	51.86	3059	50.86	3	11	0	192	1
HM Amla (SA)	2007-2010	17	31	4	1551	253*	57.44	3127	49.60	5	7	2	185	2
AJ Strauss (ENG)	2008-2011	19	33	2	1544	177	49.80	3018	51.15	7	4	4	185	3
CH Gayle (WI)	2007-2010	16	29	2	1517	333	56.18	2100	72.23	4	4	2	186	34
KP Pietersen (ENG)	2007-2011	22	36	2	1477	227	43.44	2601	56.78	4	5	2	169	10
RT Ponting (AUS)	2008-2010	19	34	0	1477	158	43.44	2462	59.99	3	9	1	178	9
AB de Villiers (SA)	2007-2010	17	29	7	1460	217*	66.36	2870	50.87	4	7	0	146	10
PD Collingwood (ENG)	2007-2011	22	35	2	1394	161	42.24	3006	46.37	3	8	1	155	7
JH Kallis (SA)	2007-2010	17	30	4	1378	173	53.00	2834	48.62	6	5	0	135	11
MJ Clarke (AUS)	2008-2010	18	32	3	1302	168	44.89	2415	53.91	5	5	4	156	4
V Sehwag (IND)	2008-2011	14	26	1	1262	201*	50.48	1498	84.24	4	4	2	183	11
IR Bell (ENG)	2007-2011	18	31	3	1234	140	44.07	2649	46.58	3	8	0	142	6
S Chanderpaul (WI)	2007-2010	15	25	6	1156	136*	60.84	2845	40.63	4	8	3	117	5
MEK Hussey (AUS)	2008-2010	19	34	0	1131	146	33.26	2671	42.34	2	8	3	138	2
R Dravid (IND)	2007-2011	19	37	3	1040	93	30.58	2893	35.94	0	8	0	135	1
DPMD Jayawardene (SL)	2007-2009	9	16	0	1039	275	64.93	1866	55.68	4	0	1	121	1

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2100;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

 

Between 2007-11, Tendulkar was excellent but this thread is about post 2000.

 

Dravid, Laxman combined to play two defining knocks in Indian cricket - Kolkata 2001 and Adelaide 2003. Sehwag played a series defining knocks in Multan 2004.

[Gambit]

Tendulkar is the only Indian to average above 50 away from home since 2000 in that list against non minnows (and WI). Can’t leave him out.

[Muloghonto]

Just now, Majestic said:

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=runs;spanmax1=31+Dec+2100;spanmin1=01+Jan+2001;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

 

Between 2007-11, Tendulkar was excellent but this thread is about post 2000.

 

Dravid, Laxman combined to play two defining knocks in Indian cricket - Kolkata 2001 and Adelaide 2003. Sehwag played a series defining knocks in Multan 2004.

One Swallow doesn't make a summer in a team game. As i said, the best test batsman ever since bradman is an automatic selection for an alltime world/India XI or period specific XI for india/world that falls over his career span.

 

[Majestic]

9 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

So his centuries in Hamilton, Centurion & Capetown at age of 37-38 is mere statpadding ?

FYI...Sachin last played vs Zim in 2002 when they were still a decent side.

 

There are 3 places in middle order for specialist batsman. Dravid, Kohli and VVS played far more impactful knocks than SRT post 2000.

[R!TTER]

He also didn't play against WI away since 2002, they were also god awful almost minnow level post 2001/02 albeit not the same as Bangers or Zimbabwe. Missed what 8-10 easy test runs away?

[R!TTER]

9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Dravid, Laxman combined to play two defining knocks in Indian cricket - Kolkata 2001 and Adelaide 2003. Sehwag played a series defining knocks in Multan 2004.

Without SRT's wickets in Kolkata, or his hundred in Chennai we don't win the series in 2001. Same goes for his 2 wickets in Adelaide, Sydney 2004 was unlucky because of dropped catches & *nor(?) umpiring in that game! In terms of impact Sehwag was the clear no.1 that decade but SRT was a close second probably ahead of VVS. You don't need to remind me of his impact - I almost have his last 18-20 years of career etched in my mind like a photographic  memory 

Edited August 2, 2024 by R!TTER