India needs boring batsmen

[Muloghonto]

7 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

 

lol no.

 

This is the problem.

 

Once we decide prime Swann and Monty on a tough Mumbai track is easier than bashing Macgill on a flat Aussie track.....

 

No wonder modern batsmen cannot compete with the yesteryears.

 

One would think these guys would bash Swann and Monty on those turners black and blue..

 

But in reality, Clarke and Afridi and Shaun Udal running through our 2000s batting lineup on a turner have shown all this is pure myth.

Well Afridi is an equal to test bowler as Panesar had he been automatic 2nd spinner at all times (which he wasn't, he often was third spinner after combo of saqlain-mushie. then saqlain-kaneria, then others). 

Bashing Murali, Warne, etc. on indian crumblers **IS** on a different planet to facing Panesar/Swann on similar pitches. That much is certain. Indian team fell to Udal or Clarke ? yes, that happens once or twice when you play 100s of time. It wasnt routine collapses against spin like the 2010s side, mostly because except for Pujara, nobody in this indian side can play spin anywhere close to the 90s-2010 era guys. Of which, Pujara is not quite as good as, mostly because he hasnt done what they had to do against much, much better spinners on nearly equally bad tracks. Who the hell thinks that mid 90s to mid 2000s was flat indian tracks ? those were dustbowl crumblers. That Kumble did his spitting top spinners on. Only after kumble declined in the mid 2000s did we turn to flatter pitches.  pre world cup 2003 indian pitches were simialr to the 2010s onward period, with a few more draw-ing pitches thrown in so we dont lose 0-3 or something in some cases being the only easy pitches, which were still rare.

Indian flatties is a 2005-2013/14 period thing. 

 

[sensible-indian]

8 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Well Afridi is an equal to test bowler as Panesar had he been automatic 2nd spinner at all times (which he wasn't, he often was third spinner after combo of saqlain-mushie. then saqlain-kaneria, then others). 

Bashing Murali, Warne, etc. on indian crumblers **IS** on a different planet to facing Panesar/Swann on similar pitches. That much is certain. Indian team fell to Udal or Clarke ? yes, that happens once or twice when you play 100s of time. It wasnt routine collapses against spin like the 2010s side, mostly because except for Pujara, nobody in this indian side can play spin anywhere close to the 90s-2010 era guys. Of which, Pujara is not quite as good as, mostly because he hasnt done what they had to do against much, much better spinners on nearly equally bad tracks. Who the hell thinks that mid 90s to mid 2000s was flat indian tracks ? those were dustbowl crumblers. That Kumble did his spitting top spinners on. Only after kumble declined in the mid 2000s did we turn to flatter pitches.  pre world cup 2003 indian pitches were simialr to the 2010s onward period, with a few more draw-ing pitches thrown in so we dont lose 0-3 or something in some cases being the only easy pitches, which were still rare.

Indian flatties is a 2005-2013/14 period thing. 

 

 

Yeah how many of those 100s of times did the pitch turn like it did for Pujara?

 

Now add in the quality of bowlers like Swann, Panesar, Lyon on those pitches...not to mention guys like O Keefe.

 

Kohli averaged 60+ in India till 2019. Same as Pujara.

 

But I won't even put them on the same planet on Asian pitches (Kohli overseas is a different beast).

 

Cos I know where and how Pujara scored those runs compared to Kohli.

 

It's about

 

1. Stats

2. Context of the runs

3. Opposition

4. Match situation

 

For me, watching all of them play since late 90s...Pujara reigns supreme taking everything into account.

 

Why?

One main reason:

 

Some talent sure...but mainly mentality.

[R!TTER]

24 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Indian flatties is a 2005-2013/14 period thing. 

We had flat tracks even in the early 2000's—the 2000 series vs. Zimbooks was on absolute dead tracks. The Kolkata & Chennai tests were also on uber flat decks, but we batted second there, although Oz batted last in Kolkata due to the follow-on. Think of them like the 2021 Eng test, where it can absolutely rag sideways, but just on the last day or two.

 

Then Eng series in 2001, Zim series in 2002, WI series in 2002 end, NZ series in 2003 were mostly on flat decks. If you take Mumbai out, which is traditionally the best place for spinners, pretty much none of them were played on tracks that assisted spin as regularly as say post 2012/13 era. What you're probably remembering are the days 4/5 on some of those games where our spinners could run through any lineup like a hot knife through butter!

 

This is why I'm kind of critical of those who defend Ashwin/Jadeja stats in this era, knowing full well how many helpful surfaces they've had + DRS. Ok, they're batting is still great considering our nonexistent top order, but their bowling stats have most definitely been inflated by turners in this era.

Edited November 2, 2024 by R!TTER

[vvvslaxman]

Wish we had the boredom of Paddikkal here. Sure he would have score 1 run 2 runs. But could have poentially consumed 10 overs.

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Wish we had the boredom of Paddikkal here. Sure he would have score 1 run 2 runs. But could have poentially consumed 10 overs.

 

I would back Padikkal to score 20-30 runs here. He's an upgrade on Gill, Kohli and Rohit just like Jurel, Sarfaraz and Sai Sudarshan.

[R!TTER]

12 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

I would back Padikkal to score 20-30 runs here. He's an upgrade on Gill, Kohli and Rohit just like Jurel, Sarfaraz and Sai Sudarshan.

It's about mental baggage as well - when you're in a rut you generally can't get out of it yourself, this is where others step in/can help but in case of RGS he's leading the side so his poor batting is affecting his captaincy! This is why Oz rarely play non performing captains, they're generally timed out before they become too stale  

 

And again why I feel if we want to win more we probably should limit the term of captains to a max of 2-4 years, but it's India so won't ever happen  

[singhvivek141]

13 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

I would back Padikkal to score 20-30 runs here. He's an upgrade on Gill, Kohli and Rohit just like Jurel, Sarfaraz and Sai Sudarshan.

There are others as well like Priyam Garg, Yash Dhull. 

Hanuma Vihari too was a good batter for these conditions, was being played in SENA countries while was dropped in home matches.

 

But we are too blinded by the stat padders who will score runs on a patta and then will do all the chest thumping and their fans will call with adjectives of the world.

 

India is the only country in cricketing world which hates the fast bowlers and are in awe of mediocre stat padding batters. 

[Ultimate_Game]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

There are others as well like Priyam Garg, Yash Dhull. 

Hanuma Vihari too was a good batter for these conditions, was being played in SENA countries while was dropped in home matches.

 

But we are too blinded by the stat padders who will score runs on a patta and then will do all the chest thumping and their fans will call with adjectives of the world.

 

India is the only country in cricketing world which hates the fast bowlers and are in awe of mediocre stat padding batters. 

 

Not all of us. It's individual player fans like putrevus, who unfortunately are the majority in India. Most of Team India and real cricket fans know that Kohli and Rohit are useless and don't deserve to be here.

[Ultimate_Game]

7 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

It's about mental baggage as well - when you're in a rut you generally can't get out of it yourself, this is where others step in/can help but in case of RGS he's leading the side so his poor batting is affecting his captaincy! This is why Oz rarely play non performing captains, they're generally timed out before they become too stale  

 

And again why I feel if we want to win more we probably should limit the term of captains to a max of 2-4 years, but it's India so won't ever happen  

 

There's a reason why Aussies have ruled cricketing world. Not because they've more talent or better players. It's coz they're ruthless. As an example they dropped Steve Waugh for 2003 world cup saying they prefer to go with Andrew Symonds as he's an aggressive bat and an all-rounder.

 

Steve Waugh went back to domestic cricket and started bowling again to get into  the side and yet the selectors didn't relent. And that after Steve Waugh won them the 1999 WC. Can you imagine Indian selectors doing so? If anyone had done anything close to what Steve Waugh did in 99 WC, that player would've been pencilled in for the next decade!

 

Here we have likes of Kohli and Rohit in the team despite not winning a tourney for more than a decade and not making a difference in Tests. Yet they aren't kicked out. We all saw what proper selections can do as we saw in 2020-21 Aus series and are seeing with the current T20 team without any so called "seniors" and Kings. But in India PR and sifarishs overrule performances so here we are.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

I would back Padikkal to score 20-30 runs here. He's an upgrade on Gill, Kohli and Rohit just like Jurel, Sarfaraz and Sai Sudarshan.

Sai Sudarshan wasn't picked because he got injured. Has undergone a surgery recently.

[singhvivek141]

Justice for

 

[vvvslaxman]

Both Mcsweeney and Khawaja were ultra boring in the first innings. Mcsweeney was what? 4 runs in 45 balls? But they saw off valuable overs from Bumrah. If only Gill had done that we could have been 50/1 or something like that.

[lemsip]

The problem is that the average Indian fan wants test matches played like T20s. Just look at this forum and the chorus of protests when someone plays a few maidens or dot balls urging them to "attack". Everyone is hyper focused on strike rates which are largely irrelevant in 5 day games which finish 3 days anyway. Not surprising that players developing in this environment  focus on tulle-bazi because that is what the crowd cheers and the commercial entities reward

[neel roy]

19 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Both Mcsweeney and Khawaja were ultra boring in the first innings. Mcsweeney was what? 4 runs in 45 balls? But they saw off valuable overs from Bumrah. If only Gill had done that we could have been 50/1 or something like that.

Exactly the reason Pujara was called boring. Hanuma was discarded. Because they didn’t score runs. And what happened was Kohli n co later on made runs against the older ball thinking they were greats. Forgetting that they should be grateful to those boring players. Instead they kicked them out. And now see. Karma is a bitch. 

[Lord]

55 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Justice for

 

 

I liked this guy. Was sacked after few failures because not flashy enough. Could have taken no. 3 from Chepu

 

 

But too late now.

[vvvslaxman]

23 minutes ago, neel roy said:

Exactly the reason Pujara was called boring. Hanuma was discarded. Because they didn’t score runs. And what happened was Kohli n co later on made runs against the older ball thinking they were greats. Forgetting that they should be grateful to those boring players. Instead they kicked them out. And now see. Karma is a bitch. 

Fans were definitely asking this question before the series "Who would play pujara role". Now we got the answer. There is none. Rahul plays well. But he doesn't last long to make that stay meaningful.

[Ultimate_Game]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Sai Sudarshan wasn't picked because he got injured. Has undergone a surgery recently.

 

In that case pick any of the others or any domestic batsman in India. You'll get better returns from literally anyone.

[vvvslaxman]

You will need strokeless wonders. Someone who cannot play shots even if he wants to. 

[Vijy]

On 12/16/2024 at 10:39 AM, vvvslaxman said:

You will need strokeless wonders. Someone who cannot play shots even if he wants to. 

best option is someone who scores at 55-60 SR, who can balance both attack and defense