Curious case of Waqar's career - avg 18 in first 32 tests and avg 28 in next 55

[Chaos]

35 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

@raki05 and @Chaos
Are like Virender Sehwag and Harry Brook against the Pakistani Posters.
Smashing them for sixes and boundaries for their non-sensical comments.
 

Raki can be harry im like viru. They see me …they (pooks) be running 

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

He likes my post just like you and put forward his points just like any of us. May be he is fond of your tv!!

Dunno about his fetish. But it its magic tho :)

[raki05]

Gooch-42

Gower-44

Artherton-37

Lamb-36

Robin Smith-43

 

Look at the avg of atg english battersas per some pooksi expert that too in an era where test formats were major format and all these old english sanile batters used to play 1000 of county cricket and only test matches still avges this much only playing halwa indian, slankan, zimbabwean, aussie trundlers (during early 90s ) and waqar kind of bowlers bowling. Wow what a batting lineup. Only atg batter england produced is KP and Root, we know how many times bumrah owned root during his last india tour.

Edited January 13, 2025 by raki05

[Chaos]

10 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Gooch-42

Gower-44

Artherton-37

Lamb-36

Robin Smith-43

 

Look at the avg of atg english battersas per some pooksi expert that too in an era where test formats were major format and all these old english sanile batters used to play 1000 of county cricket and only test matches still avges this much only playing halwa indian, slankan, zimbabwean, aussie trundlers (during early 90s ) and waqar kind of bowlers bowling. Wow what a batting lineup. Only atg batter england produced is KP and Root, we know how many times bumrah owned root during his last india tour.

@Alam_dar @First class and other badmash pooks here. @singhvivek141 bandii theeyara

[singhvivek141]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

@Alam_dar @First class and other badmash pooks here. @singhvivek141 bandii theeyara

Indeed it is. 

[vvvslaxman]

Waqar in England in the 90s

 

in England 8 tests 38 wickets 26.00 avge

 

Sure. Was it the best in England during that phase?

 

1990s

 

All the following bowlers averaged less than Waqar in England during this phase

 

Ambrose 10 tests 49 wickets 21.75 avge 

Donald   8 tests 45 wickets 23.62 avge

Mcgrath  6 tests 36 wickets 19.47 avge

Paul Reiffel 7 tests 30 wickets 22.96 avge

Bishop 6 tests 27 wickets 24.03 avge

Chris Cairns 4 tests 19 wickets 21.26 avge

Gillespie 4 tests 16 wickets 20.75 avge

Kenneth benjamin 5 tests 23 wickets 22.00 avge

Venkatesh prasad 3 tests 15 wickets 25.00 avge

Ganguly 2 tests 6 wickets 20.83 avge

Marshall 5 tests 20 wickets 22.10 avge

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

If you look at New zealand it is the same. Infact Akram has totally outbowled Waqar in NZ . 

 

Performance in NZ  criteria avge less than 23 just to include Waqar. You see Vaas averages 17.59 there. Waqar definitely statpadded there. But there were others who were better than him.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Waqar was one of the pak great (if you ignore suspicious seam picking activities). But it was a case of being the man at the right time. Akram played in the 80s too something that Waqar didn't do. 

[MechEng]

I guess we are grossly underrating Waqar here now.....

 

Anyways, this thread is not as delusional as the one I had encountered a long time ago where somehow Srinath was being rated as a better bowler than Wasim and Waqar through some strange stats selection.

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, First class said:

So every wickets Waqar took was against " weak" team and Bumrah against " strong " one. You need to educated yourself about cricket history , all test teams were much stronger than today;s test teams in Waqar's era. New Zealand lost more matches then due to the fact that other teams and their bowling were very strong .

 

Had Waqar was bowling to these low level batsmen Australian batters ( compared to all time great Australian team of 90s  ) like , Khwaja, Labu, Konstats , Mcsweeney , Marsh and out of form Smith , Waqar would have won the series single-handedly , which India lost 1-3 . 

 

I would disagree with the bolded part. Waqar would have still struggled because he wasn't a seam bowler.

 

Swing bowlers always struggle in Aussie conditions more than hit the deck seamers.

 

But as I've stated in one of my previous answers, cricket is way more than stats and the aura Waqar has left behind is that of his overall bowling art irrespective of how well he did in tests and ODIs separately.

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, MechEng said:

I guess we are grossly underrating Waqar here now.....

 

Anyways, this thread is not as delusional as the one I had encountered a long time ago where somehow Srinath was being rated as a better bowler than Wasim and Waqar through some strange stats selection.

 

I don't think we compare him with Srinath here. Pak fans feel Bumrah has to achieve a "lot more" to be compared with Waqar. So we merely highlight why that is not the case without bringing u up suspicious acts (where he got banned for tampering).

 

India has played 71 tests since Bumrah's debut. Bumrah missed 26 of them. In an era where there is no T20s, not many ODis he is very likely to have played more tests than this. Atleast 60

 

5 against England

6 against Australia

3 against NZ

4 against Bangladesh

3 against SA

4 against Windies

1 against Afghanistan

 

 

 

 

[MechEng]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I don't think we compare him with Srinath here. Pak fans feel Bumrah has to achieve a "lot more" to be compared with Waqar. So we merely highlight why that is not the case without bringing u up suspicious acts (where he got banned for tampering).

 

India has played 71 tests since Bumrah's debut. Bumrah missed 26 of them. In an era where there is no T20s, not many ODis he is very likely to have played more tests than this. Atleast 60

 

5 against England

6 against Australia

3 against NZ

4 against Bangladesh

3 against SA

4 against Windies

1 against Afghanistan

 

 

 

 

 

What Pak fans (or for that matter any fan) feel is irrelevant.

 

Bumrah's class can be judged purely by how he approaches his bowling. That's it. Those who understand the game, will acknowledge this.

 

It really doesn't matter if he bowled to Gavaskar, Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar, Sangakkara, Viv Richards or Dravid tier batsmen or not.

Edited January 13, 2025 by MechEng

[singhvivek141]

50 minutes ago, MechEng said:

I guess we are grossly underrating Waqar here now.....

 

Anyways, this thread is not as delusional as the one I had encountered a long time ago where somehow Srinath was being rated as a better bowler than Wasim and Waqar through some strange stats selection.

Waqar is rated as a Pak great and a "good bowler".

That's where it ends, he can't be classified as an ATG or GOAT for that matter.

 

No one calls Shami an ATG, he is a fantastic bowler and an Indian great.

 

Bumrah is an ATG, possibly in race of GOAT if he maintains the form till 300 wickets. But has done enough in a significant career of his to show he is a class above his peers in modern era. Rabada & Cummins are comfortably behind him.

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Waqar is rated as a Pak great and a "good bowler".

That's where it ends, he can't be classified as an ATG or GOAT for that matter.

 

No one calls Shami an ATG, he is a fantastic bowler and an Indian great.

 

Bumrah is an ATG, possibly in race of GOAT if he maintains the form till 300 wickets. But has done enough in a significant career of his to show he is a class above his peers in modern era. Rabada & Cummins are comfortably behind him.

 

Guys like Bumrah could have already achieved 300 mark but for stupid IPL and all the other short formats which took toll of him. Missed 26 tests. Even if he had played 15 tests out of it he could have gotten there. Also there is no rest day in Test matches unlike 90s.  With dumb***k like Rohit his career will become even shorter. 

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, Chaos said:

@Alam_dar @First class and other badmash pooks here. @singhvivek141 bandii theeyara

 

Dear @Chaos

Please reduce this needless enmity and just enjoy the game. 

[First class]

Different era , different condition , different team strength and even different speed gun , we cannot compare cricketers of different era . This thread was not about Bumrah but hijacked by Bumrah fan club members . Bumrah should be compared with the bowlers like Rabada , Cummins, Boult, Hazelwood, STartch, no with bowlers of different era. 

 

I'm anxiously waiting for this summer's India-England test series , lets see can Bumrah maintains his form there, conditions will be even more helpful for him. 

[singhvivek141]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Guys like Bumrah could have already achieved 300 mark but for stupid IPL and all the other short formats which took toll of him. Missed 26 tests. Even if he had played 15 tests out of it he could have gotten there. Also there is no rest day in Test matches unlike 90s.  With dumb***k like Rohit his career will become even shorter. 

I think Rohit's time is up.

He isnt gonna play any more games in Test Cricket.

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, First class said:

Different era , different condition , different team strength and even different speed gun , we cannot compare cricketers of different era . This thread was not about Bumrah but hijacked by Bumrah fan club members . Bumrah should be compared with the bowlers like Rabada , Cummins, Boult, Hazelwood, STartch, no with bowlers of different era. 

 

I'm anxiously waiting for this summer's India-England test series , lets see can Bumrah maintains his form there, conditions will be even more helpful for him. 

Cross era comparison has been done since eternity.

There is nothing wrong in doing such comparisons, rather it helps in keeping the legacies of players alive in the modern context as well.

 

90's there weren't many batters averaging 50's...that number went up in 2000's due to flatter conditions in many countries. There is dip again from past one or two years due to result oriented pitches.

 

ODI's have become flatter, thats why there are so many 50 averaging batters. No way in hell Babar Azam is a better bat than Inzi or Yusuf. 

 

Bowlers of current era and batters of 90's deserve much more accolades than what we give to them. 

[Gollum]

There is a reason Wasim is rated so highly by his peers, but not Waqar. 

[JaFanatic]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:31 PM, Nikhil_cric said:

2 back stress fractures , age , greater scrutiny on bowlers for tampering, batsmen got better against pace because of bowling machines, sidearms etc. 

 

 

He was 22-31 yrs old through this second phase which is the peak period for a fast bowler. Not sure how come age be a factor in this decline. He just performed to his potential which isn't as good as some make it out to be. 

Edited January 14, 2025 by JaFanatic