Pakistan tri series.

[Ultimate_Game]

9 hours ago, Gollum said:

Smith was a big reason why Aussies won the 2015 WC, QF, SF, F, showed up every time. Weathered the Wahab Riaz storm, pummeled India and a clinical finish in the final.

 

In fact he has a stellar record in WC KOs (was lone Aussie standing in 19 SF as well), only blip being 23 final where he was wrongly given out, a howler which he didn't review.

 

Not a great ODI player but mentally right up there, like Steve Waugh.

 

He's definitely clutch

[Ultimate_Game]

13 hours ago, First class said:

Babar is the most overrated ( and most useless ) cricketer in recent years/decades . He has hardly played any significant innings in tough situation . If you do a study on his followers or " fan club" ( if there is any ), they must be the most  illiterate (  in cricketing sense ) followers of the game. 

 

It always surprises me that Fakhar Zaman never got the recognition or fan base close to what Babar has. Fakhar is the lone Pak batter who can create an impact like Warner, Head, Rohit, Buttler etc., i.e. win a match on their own. Babar could never do that other than chase below par totals in the 230-260 range.

[tapandrun]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

He's definitely clutch

aus system produces and promotes only top talents, have not seen any aus player who freezes under pressure. this is the way they have been playing cricket for a v.longtime.

they started the methodology where they would take down the best bowler of opp. team, they would try to get top batters of the opp. team early.

 

pointing, gilchrist, strac, cummins, etc.. take any name they would have reserve tanks for big tkt matches. this is the reason it seems like they keep getting good as icc event moves to its final stages.  

[Ultimate_Game]

28 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

aus system produces and promotes only top talents, have not seen any aus player who freezes under pressure. this is the way they have been playing cricket for a v.longtime.

they started the methodology where they would take down the best bowler of opp. team, they would try to get top batters of the opp. team early.

 

pointing, gilchrist, strac, cummins, etc.. take any name they would have reserve tanks for big tkt matches. this is the reason it seems like they keep getting good as icc event moves to its final stages.  

 

And one of the reasons i sthat they don't carry passengers for ages. Kohli would've been dropped years ago, and Rohit probably a decade back. They certainly wouldn't have survived the humiliation of being clean swept at home by a mediocre NZ side.

 

Conversely Warner would still be playing if he was Indian and we would've taken Steve Waugh to 2003 and 2007 WCs instead of Andrew Symonds on the back of his 1999 WC performance.

 

That's the difference. Aussie cricket is a meritocracy where performance is the only criteria and they don't shy from dropping their biggest stars when they're done. While India is all about PR and star power where we have likes of Kohli and Rohit playing way past their sell by date and someone like Jaiswal is not even in the squad and Pant warms the bench.

 

There's a reason Aussies have won 6 WC while we couldn't do jack shyte despite all the resources and with our best bowling attack in our history headed by Bumrah and Shami the last decade thanks to has beens like Kohli and Rohit persisted with.

[tapandrun]

On 2/15/2025 at 8:13 AM, First class said:

Situation is pretty bad in Pakistan cricket , particularly in batting . In CT team , Fakhar is good but very inconsistent . Overall I would still pick Rizwan as the best among not so great batters. Overall , Saim is very talented but we have seen many "talented ones"  came and disappeared in no time . But unlike some others  Saim seems to have some grey matter in his brain , others were simply stupid .

 

Shaan Masood , although a mediocre batter by international standard,  is the best among the batters active now a days in Pakistan. Not a good T20 player but a very good ODI player. 

 

Have seen those theories that babar stance has changed or something,  over the years all batters make some small changes, it their evolution of the game, fixing some small thing here and there.

 

yes he is good batter, no he is not the top draw batter but the issue is he does not have modern day game which is required these days 

 

Imo what is happening to babar is no diff. to what happens to any talented new batter from sc, they are good they got some talent, teams/tm/selectors wants to give them some easy tours/games so that these players gain confidence and get the taste of intnl cricket and then they get to play good teams and teams who have data on them so they start showing issues, losing their wkts lose form etc. then they go back correct and rectify the issue and try improve if not dropped from the team all together. if dropped they try to out bat all in domestic to make a comeback.

 

Now where babar case is difference he kept playing those a/b/c sides kept scoring runs, he will get rag-tag bowling line-ups where teams would have only 1 good bowler or only 1 high potential bowler. earlier teams such teams would come and think ok we got a chance lets play they donot have much of a plan on how to win and how to use the data that they have with them. Now in las 3/4 years there have been alot of icc events teams are now trying to be more competitive, these developmental teams are now getting better they know how to apply pressure, how to win and what are issues with babar so they can put the clamp. 

All this is happening too late in babar's career, can he come out of it, he is a good player but his ways are out-dated. will he show glimpses that he is good yes. he is 30-32 yo can he take the pressure of all 3 formats ??

 

Avg. these days does not make any sense we do not know what is a good avg, these days. if there is some1 playing in top 4 he can easly have 45-50+ avg these days.

babar has 4k runs with 9 tons in with only 1 ton outside asia in tests, 6k runs with 19 tons in odis hardy any1 against a top side on the field (if you go and chk the highlight hardly find any ton against a top bowling line) , he is in top 3/4 in highest run getter in t20i but his sr is under 130s, that too when is he asked to play at higher sr but then his avg. dipped.

some pr which started calling him king bcoz it keeps his name conversations when ever there is a mention of kolhi its a easy and cost effective way of doing pr, think thy were doing it same with other opener calling him williamson/dravid like.

 

no 1 calls warner fab-4/5/6 where he is top odi , t20i batter a match winner against top bowling lines, has 22 test tons yes most of them are in aus but so does babar has ost on his tons in sc.

rohit is a white ball master but no1 calls them fab-4/5/6 even his pr does not go that far of comparing him to top draws of modern day cricket.

 

rizwan has 2.5k runs is odis and 2.2k runs in tests how can he be the best in pak ??

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2025 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

9 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

And one of the reasons i sthat they don't carry passengers for ages. Kohli would've been dropped years ago, and Rohit probably a decade back. They certainly wouldn't have survived the humiliation of being clean swept at home by a mediocre NZ side.

 

Conversely Warner would still be playing if he was Indian and we would've taken Steve Waugh to 2003 and 2007 WCs instead of Andrew Symonds on the back of his 1999 WC performance.

 

That's the difference. Aussie cricket is a meritocracy where performance is the only criteria and they don't shy from dropping their biggest stars when they're done. While India is all about PR and star power where we have likes of Kohli and Rohit playing way past their sell by date and someone like Jaiswal is not even in the squad and Pant warms the bench.

 

There's a reason Aussies have won 6 WC while we couldn't do jack shyte despite all the resources and with our best bowling attack in our history headed by Bumrah and Shami the last decade thanks to has beens like Kohli and Rohit persisted with.

yes the whole reason ind side looks dated and always catching-up even after having all the resources, mony, personal is these players take 3-4 more years to retire and if they have status of kolhi/rohit/sachin/dhoni its get 5+ years.

 

why ind teams does nt come up with anything new, new innovation, still ind batters can not play modern shots, hardly any1 plays sweep even though they play tests on spinning surfaces, no1 want to add new skills. Ind still plays a specialist off-spinner in white-ball whats the plan here, what is the rational? yes tm/selectors are not risk takers or innovative but cannt they see whats going on in world cricket -batters like maxwell, short, makram, root, etc they bowl off-spin if needed.

 

How does kl keep his place after freezing time after time in big matches. he has not full filled the promise he came up with but he still plays. pant still plays t20is 

[Ultimate_Game]

6 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

yes the whole reason ind side looks dated and always catching-up even after having all the resources, mony, personal is these players take 3-4 more years to retire and if they have status of kolhi/rohit/sachin/dhoni its get 5+ years.

 

why ind teams does nt come up with anything new, new innovation, still ind batters can not play modern shots, hardly any1 plays sweep even though they play tests on spinning surfaces, no1 want to add new skills. Ind still plays a specialist off-spinner in white-ball whats the plan here, what is the rational? yes tm/selectors are not risk takers or innovative but cannt they see whats going on in world cricket -batters like maxwell, short, makram, root, etc they bowl off-spin if needed.

 

How does kl keep his place after freezing time after time in big matches. he has not full filled the promise he came up with but he still plays. pant still plays t20is 

 

It's BCCI's fault. They never had the balls to make tough decisions and never really cared about winning. We always had the players to win - case in point our BGT win in 2020-21 when an inexperienced, young team beat Aus in Aus. Yet we didn't learn anything at all and instead of backing youngsters we brought in unfit fatso Rohit in recent BGT despite losing us the NZ series at home. And we've Kohli who has been worse than a tailender since 2020. We were trying to win with 9 players.

 

And now the same story will repeat in CT with over the hill players playing ahead of youngsters. Any other nation would've Jaiswal as the opener and probably trying to see if Abhishek can make the cut. And here we're going with dinosaurs like Kohli, Rohit and a failure in KL Rahul. And then we'll be surprised when we end up with egg on our faces. Same story will repeat in Test series in Eng and the 2027 WC with these bozos still hanging around with no performances.

 

I don't even know what the selection criteria is anymore. Apparently you don't need fitness, don't need to perform in intls, no performances required in domestic as well. For these so called "King" and "Hitman", spot in the Indian team is like a nomination in Rajya Sabha. You don't need to do a thing, you're simply nominated.

[tapandrun]

8 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

It's BCCI's fault. They never had the balls to make tough decisions and never really cared about winning. We always had the players to win - case in point our BGT win in 2020-21 when an inexperienced, young team beat Aus in Aus. Yet we didn't learn anything at all and instead of backing youngsters we brought in unfit fatso Rohit in recent BGT despite losing us the NZ series at home. And we've Kohli who has been worse than a tailender since 2020. We were trying to win with 9 players.

 

And now the same story will repeat in CT with over the hill players playing ahead of youngsters. Any other nation would've Jaiswal as the opener and probably trying to see if Abhishek can make the cut. And here we're going with dinosaurs like Kohli, Rohit and a failure in KL Rahul. And then we'll be surprised when we end up with egg on our faces. Same story will repeat in Test series in Eng and the 2027 WC with these bozos still hanging around with no performances.

 

I don't even know what the selection criteria is anymore. Apparently you don't need fitness, don't need to perform in intls, no performances required in domestic as well. For these so called "King" and "Hitman", spot in the Indian team is like a nomination in Rajya Sabha. You don't need to do a thing, you're simply nominated.

yes kl/rohit/kolhi/shami's time is up they should have been asked to retire by now.  Ind has wasted time and odi series in letting these players play and picking them.

where is the time to build an odi team. Ind might be losing 4/5 players from odi side and where is the time to check them before the wc. how to know which ones are good against top sides ??

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

yes kl/rohit/kolhi/shami's time is up they should have been asked to retire by now.  Ind has wasted time and odi series in letting these players play and picking them.

where is the time to build an odi team. Ind might be losing 4/5 players from odi side and where is the time to check them before the wc. how to know which ones are good against top sides ??

 

No need to ask them to retire. Simply don't pick them and select the top performing players. We have Jaiswal and bring top domestic performers. What's the point of playing 38 year olds who're years past their prime. And it's not as if we don't have any options which our T20 team has shown.

[deepdynamo]

15 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

No need to ask them to retire. Simply don't pick them and select the top performing players. We have Jaiswal and bring top domestic performers. What's the point of playing 38 year olds who're years past their prime. And it's not as if we don't have any options which our T20 team has shown.

 

The planning for 2027 ODI world cup must start after CT.

 

No point picking Rohit, Kohli, KL, Shami, Jadeja - these five players must be discarded after CT.

 

Back players that can be highly successful in SA & give them game time- Tilak, Samson & Sai have already performed in SA conditions.

[Autonomous]

Fakhar Zaman is our best bat. 

 

Period

[New guy]

21 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

It always surprises me that Fakhar Zaman never got the recognition or fan base close to what Babar has. Fakhar is the lone Pak batter who can create an impact like Warner, Head, Rohit, Buttler etc., i.e. win a match on their own. Babar could never do that other than chase below par totals in the 230-260 range.

The batsmen you name perform in all formats and much more frequently than Fakhar. Fakhar's best format is ODIs which are hardly played and he is very inconsistent in other formats.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

Fakhar Zaman is our best bat. 

 

Period

 

I don't follow Pak cricket except for India, Australia, England, NZ for competitive reasons...but whatever I have seen, Babar does looks head and shoulders above Fakhar or any other batter.

 

Fakhar isnt bad, but has several shortcomings and can easily be bogged down. Has only few scoring areas, unlike Babar who has shots across the ground.

[First class]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

I don't follow Pak cricket except for India, Australia, England, NZ for competitive reasons...but whatever I have seen, Babar does looks head and shoulders above Fakhar or any other batter.

 

Fakhar isnt bad, but has several shortcomings and can easily be bogged down. Has only few scoring areas, unlike Babar who has shots across the ground.

Babar and Fakhar both have shortcomings but Fakhar plays an impact inning once in a while , but Babar is all style and no impact. 

[Frustrated]

38 minutes ago, First class said:

Babar and Fakhar both have shortcomings but Fakhar plays an impact inning once in a while , but Babar is all style and no impact. 

In the last one year or so, Salman Agha seems to be the most improved batter in the Pak lineup.  As an Indian, I fear him the most. (Apart from Fakhar).  

[First class]

36 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

In the last one year or so, Salman Agha seems to be the most improved batter in the Pak lineup.  As an Indian, I fear him the most. (Apart from Fakhar).  

Yes , Salman has extensive FC experience and plays spin well . Babar is weak against spin . 

[Lone Wolf]

13 minutes ago, First class said:

Yes , Salman has extensive FC experience and plays spin well . Babar is weak against spin . 

I think reason for Babar's sudden downfall is due to his poor fitness. He carries a pot belly and his reflexes have slowed down.  His age might be 3-4 years at least older than the paper ones.

He barely plays square cut and sweeps anymore.  Hand eye coordination has gone weak.

2019 WC Babar was the Peak I feel.  He can't play those classy shots anymore.

[Lord]

13 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think reason for Babar's sudden downfall is due to his poor fitness. He carries a pot belly and his reflexes have slowed down.  His age might be 3-4 years at least older than the paper ones.

He barely plays square cut and sweeps anymore.  Hand eye coordination has gone weak.

2019 WC Babar was the Peak I feel.  He can't play those classy shots anymore.

 

needs some chilly paneer

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, First class said:

Babar and Fakhar both have shortcomings but Fakhar plays an impact inning once in a while , but Babar is all style and no impact. 

Babar is anchor of the team, he can play run a ball inns and navigate the team. He need strokeplayers at the other end to support.

You can't expect Babar to bat like Fakhar and bash 40(25)...he is more of a 102(105) type batter...which has its value in ODI cricket.

 

E.g. Kohli tried to bat like Rohit in T20 WC and failed massively. Its only when he batted his natural way in finals was when he succeeded. 

[First class]

24 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Babar is anchor of the team, he can play run a ball inns and navigate the team. He need strokeplayers at the other end to support.

You can't expect Babar to bat like Fakhar and bash 40(25)...he is more of a 102(105) type batter...which has its value in ODI cricket.

 

E.g. Kohli tried to bat like Rohit in T20 WC and failed massively. Its only when he batted his natural way in finals was when he succeeded. 

If he is an anchor , that anchor is long broken . For other batters to play around him , he needs to stay at the wicket , not getting out at low score all the time .