The sad decline of West Indian Test cricket: ‘We seem to have given up’

[BacktoCricaddict]

The idea that is "West Indies" is done. They still have something to offer as individuals in T20 cricket. That's it. For over 2 decades, they only seem to play as 11 individuals, not as a team. And worse still, since T20 leagues started, they seem to always be auditioning for lucrative contracts in the various leagues. And that is fine - everyone does what they need to do to get paid. But, at this point, it is best to split them up and see who emerges. Jamaica, T&T, Barbados and maybe Guyana will be decent. They can start as minnows and go from there. 

 

But there's nothing sad about it. 

[putrevus]

27 minutes ago, AKane said:

They were not just bowling bouncers, they were bowling beamers - but you don't want to understand that. Fine. 

 

That match was conceded at 180 odd for 2 with Mohinder still to bat. Not because of bumpers bowled but bumpers bowled clearly "wide" - again so wide that not reachable and not called by umps. But you don't want to understand that. Fine.

 

Nobody can face beamers without injury - even in baseball a ball pitched straight at the batter cannot be avoided and causes fights and pitcher thrown out of game.

 

Indians may have been soft but have never been the kind of gutter trash that the West Indies are today. Serves the WI  right. Go play Nepal <giggle>.

I can understand if you are happy with their decline but in general WI teams were not mean starting from Frank Worrell who offered to give his own blood to save Nari Contractor's life and he wanted to ban his own fast bowler Charlie Griffith for chucking.

 

I have not heard or read anywhere of beamers being bowled in that test.

 

Regarding Pakistan match, yes Pakistani cheated but noway Bedi should have conceded the match.The same guy Bedi said he wouldn't mind if Indian players jumped into pacific ocean after losing a series in NZ in 1990.Those guys atleast lost the series on the field unlike himself who quit multiple times.

 

WI maybe trash now and have been trash for last 15 years but they still have better overall record versus India .That should say it all about the quality of Indian teams in those days .

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

26 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

The idea that is "West Indies" is done. They still have something to offer as individuals in T20 cricket. That's it. For over 2 decades, they only seem to play as 11 individuals, not as a team. And worse still, since T20 leagues started, they seem to always be auditioning for lucrative contracts in the various leagues. And that is fine - everyone does what they need to do to get paid. But, at this point, it is best to split them up and see who emerges. Jamaica, T&T, Barbados and maybe Guyana will be decent. They can start as minnows and go from there. 

 

But there's nothing sad about it. 

The decline started much before the advent of t20 leagues .Maybe you are right it is best to split them up.

 

Captains like Worrell, Lloyd united them and made wearing maroon cap a matter of pride.Counties were poaching their players then also, even now guys like Jofra Archer are products of WI cricket.

 

Sammy was their last decent captain who held their teams together and managed to win couple of world t20s cups.

Edited October 4, 2025 by putrevus

[rollingstoned]

3 hours ago, AKane said:

 

PS - Despite all the tall tales of "independence", it was the practice in English county cricket that helped the WI. Arrogantly you showed off to the English in 70's and 80's. When they cut you off from county cricket, you found your level... your current level.

This, this and this. People who think they had a great independent and sustainable system to produce world class cricketers don't know ****. 

[vvvslaxman]

I saw thie caribbean podcast doing an analysis where they found whenever kraigg brathwhite had a decent year WI put up decent totals. Whenever he had a lean year (which was most of the time) they had a lean year. One of the worst batsman to have played 100 tests. Imagine a team depending a batsman like Brathwhite.

[rollingstoned]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

I saw thie caribbean podcast doing an analysis where they found whenever kraigg brathwhite had a decent year WI put up decent totals. Whenever he had a lean year (which was most of the time) they had a lean year. One of the worst batsman to have played 100 tests. Imagine a team depending a batsman like Brathwhite.

He is a cause and not symptom. I have never seen a good windies team post -2000. They were a horrible odi team who were often 100/5 or so against especially decent spin attacks in white ball cricket especially Even with likes of Lara in the team.  

[BacktoCricaddict]

28 minutes ago, putrevus said:

The decline started much before the advent of t20 leagues .Maybe you are right it is best to split them up.

 

Captains like Worrell, Lloyd united them and made wearing maroon cap a matter of pride.Counties were poaching their players then also, even now guys like Jofra Archer are products of WI cricket.

 

Sammy was their last decent captain who held their teams together and managed to win couple of world t20s cups.

Their individual talent can continue to shine in T20 leagues and maybe one of the island teams will make some noise in T20 WC every now and then.  

[BacktoCricaddict]

14 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

He is a cause and not symptom. I have never seen a good windies team post -2000. They were a horrible odi team who were often 100/5 or so against especially decent spin attacks in white ball cricket especially Even with likes of Lara in the team.  

There is no reward for playing long formats there.  As an individual, why would you even bother? If you wanted to make a living from cricket, you concentrate on T20 leagues, travel around the world, make hay while you're young, and retire at 30-35. 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Their individual talent can continue to shine in T20 leagues and maybe one of the island teams will make some noise in T20 WC every now and then.  

In this age of instant gratification, test cricket will have tough time in maintaining relevance.

 

Like their fans are saying their test teams are better off playing with lower level teams like Ireland than getting beat up by strong teams.For that to happen two tier system is a must.

 

Can lower tier teams support test cricket without playing main teams is the question. Answer might be no right now.

[vvvslaxman]

Unike padosi fans WI fans actually want to see them do well in Tests. I see soem fo theg usy who actually watched match on the ground in the 70s still actively follow their test cricket. IT is a sad situation for them.

[AKane]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

I can understand if you are happy with their decline but in general WI teams were not mean starting from Frank Worrell who offered to give his own blood to save Nari Contractor's life and he wanted to ban his own fast bowler Charlie Griffith for chucking.

 

I have not heard or read anywhere of beamers being bowled in that test.

Well I mean what to say...I heard about it live but ...

 

https://www.cricketcountry.com/articles/when-clive-lloyd-ordered-india-s-bloodbath-at-jamaica-25636/

 

Read about the "Bouncer and beamer barrage" ......

 

Their trash has caught up with them - they are a lousy talentless team and they need to deal with that fact. Hey Lloyd and Holding - take your team to play the associates......

 

Those who like them and their trash can cope harder.....

Edited October 5, 2025 by AKane

[vvvslaxman]

6 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Whenever I start feeling bad for WI, I remember the likes of Holdings, Lloyd and many similar-minded bitter folks from that generation.

 

Just think of Holding in the commentary box or Lloyd as match ref when India was playing and you'll be just fine. Remember those jealous barbs by Holding and the "wannabe white" Lloyd who went extra mile to go against India.

 

 

Ironically first ever match at Ahmedabad happened between India and West Indies, 1983 when Kapil took 9 for 83.  Lloyd was utterly dissatisfied with the pitch. So defending 254 in 4th innings Lloyd said one day before 'We will win it". Holding, Marshall, David utterly decimated us reducing us to 39/7 in the 2nd innings. We just decimated them 42 years later at the same venue

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-india-1983-84-61939/india-vs-west-indies-3rd-test-63352/full-scorecard

 

 

Edited October 5, 2025 by vvvslaxman

[rollingstoned]

6 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

There is no reward for playing long formats there.  As an individual, why would you even bother? If you wanted to make a living from cricket, you concentrate on T20 leagues, travel around the world, make hay while you're young, and retire at 30-35. 

This is also a recent phenomenon with the board and players clashing. 

 

Logistical issues aside the Chip on the shoulder which that team from the 70s had with racism is also missing which was bound to happen with time. If you see the movie Fire in Babylon - recommended watch - it becomes quite apparent. Not sure how much else is there to unite all the islands. 

[jf1gp_1]

WI can put an extremely competitive team if they wanted. They have themselves to blame. 

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

WI can put an extremely competitive team if they wanted. They have themselves to blame. 

Windies has been losing to INdia for the last 23  years. Not won a single test was won against India during this period  They want to stop playing India as they feel they are not learning anything.  They have won against other sides though. Quoting one of their podcast "I would rather want to see my team score 300 against Ireland than getting smashed by India" It has come to that.

[singhvivek141]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

The decline started much before the advent of t20 leagues .Maybe you are right it is best to split them up.

 

Captains like Worrell, Lloyd united them and made wearing maroon cap a matter of pride.Counties were poaching their players then also, even now guys like Jofra Archer are products of WI cricket.

 

Sammy was their last decent captain who held their teams together and managed to win couple of world t20s cups.

It also matters that likes of Worrell, Llyod were good players in themselves. Likes of Lara, Chanderpaul, Sarwan etc were known and renowned players.

WI cricket has been producing zero stars post Gayle. Likes of Pollard, Dre Rus etc are just T20 hacks.
Sad part is their pace bowling demise..post Ambrose-Walsh duo they haven't produced even a single world class pacer. Roach tried hard but was no better than Umesh Yadav. Shamar Joseph has potential but how much he will play will always remain a question.

 

[Trichromatic]

21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

It also matters that likes of Worrell, Llyod were good players in themselves. Likes of Lara, Chanderpaul, Sarwan etc were known and renowned players.

WI cricket has been producing zero stars post Gayle. Likes of Pollard, Dre Rus etc are just T20 hacks.
Sad part is their pace bowling demise..post Ambrose-Walsh duo they haven't produced even a single world class pacer. Roach tried hard but was no better than Umesh Yadav. Shamar Joseph has potential but how much he will play will always remain a question.

 

 

It seems that teams need batting talent to look decent.

 

Kemar Roach with 287 wickets at avg of 27 in 16 years. He would have been 2nd best pacer ever for India and would have played 120+ tests.

 

Shamar Joseph 51 wickets at avg of 21.

 

Seales 89 wickets at avg of 22.

 

They are world class players.

 

 

[bsriharsha]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Sad part is their pace bowling demise..post Ambrose-Walsh duo they haven't produced even a single world class pacer

Bishop was well on his way to being rated among Ambrose and Walsh when injuries cut short his career rather brutally. 

 

Think the best bowler for them after Bishop was probably Kemar Roach. 

[bsriharsha]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Kemar Roach with 287 wickets at avg of 27 in 16 years. He would have been 2nd best pacer ever for India and would have played 120+ tests.

Nope. 

He would have been at best a third choice bowler with the current lot of Indian bowlers (Including Shami). He's probably on par with Siraj right now. And we did have other bowlers too. Kapil, Zak etc

There's a huge difference in playing for a team like India and performing for a team like West Indies. 

Edited October 5, 2025 by bsriharsha

[bsriharsha]

Remove the first few years of Ishant's career where he was mismanaged by captains with defensive fields etc and you'll find that Ishant would be averaging in the 27-28 having almost the same SR as well.