14 off 45 !!!!!!

[Shane]

werz ashravin wen we need him........injured

Could'nt get back in time from International Duty, hence the likes of Tevez and Robinho were missing.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Could'nt get back in time from International Duty' date=' hence the likes of Tevez and Robinho were missing.[/quote'] seriously suddenly some rich sheikh comes buy players and man c are like..........we really need to spend smthng........not a superstar bt some one good like ashravin......4-2 too much to digest

[Guest Gunner]

seriously suddenly some rich sheikh comes buy players and man c are like..........we really need to spend smthng........not a superstar bt some one good like ashravin......4-2 too much to digest

Dont forget the ****ing o.g.

[DomainK]

coffee, this game is a game of momentum. Look at Tendulkar's batting today, up until his 22nd ball, he was 23 without ANY risks. Just percentage cricket, 1s and 2s, some boundaries off the bad balls. Dravid came and struggled to 12 off 24 deliveries, this is NOT a test match. Dravid doesn't need to be striking at 100, but he can atleast rotate strike can't he? I'm a big Dravid fan, but he needs to be utilized in the middle order at 5, when the field is spread and he has an easier time finding the gaps for 1s and 2s. In the one day game, you can't afford to "block". You have to keep scoring, you have to keep rotating the strike. Sure Dravid came away with a 80+ S/R today, but at that point the momentum was lost. Give Dravid the time he needs in the middle of innings to get set, and then watch him go. Not only with his S/R improve but he'll give India the steady hand they need in the middle order.

I agree. Dravid created pressure today resulting in the key wicket of Sachin. Sachin saw the match sloly slipping away and he had to start playing shots with balls being mercilessly wasted at the other end. That was a very poor show from Dravid.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Dont forget the ****ing o.g.

dat was ****ing unlucky

[coffee_rules]

Agreed Sachin outscored Dravid initially and the momentum was lost there, but it's was still in 7-10 overs, if Sachin had played with a little more sensibiliy, he could have lasted a bit more till the 30th over and regained the momentum. And by taking more risks Sachin showed how long he could survive. 20-odd runs in 20-odd balls is not enough to chase 300+ scores. We needed a longer innings from him today.

[Shehezaada]

Agreed Sachin outscored Dravid initially and the momentum was lost there' date=' but it's was still in 7-10 overs, if Sachin had played with a little more sensibiliy, he could have lasted a bit more till the 30th over and regained the momentum. And by taking more risks Sachin showed how long he could survive. 20-odd runs in 20-odd balls is not enough to chase 300+ scores. We needed a longer innings from him today.[/quote'] that's the point! If Dravid had managed to score a little better and take advantage of the power plays...Tendulkar wouldn't have to play that shot. i'm not blaming Tendulkar for his shot...it was poorly executed, but if he was allowed to keep going the way he was, he would have won the game for us today.

[flamy]

But some d!ckhead on this thread thinks the lad can't accelerate, even after proving his worth time and time again, he played well again today where other fancy boys around him have failed.

:cantstop::cantstop:

[graphic23]

I agree. Dravid created pressure today resulting in the key wicket of Sachin. Sachin saw the match sloly slipping away and he had to start playing shots with balls being mercilessly wasted at the other end. That was a very poor show from Dravid.

Tendulkar has been playing long enough that he knows how to chase 307. It is really unfair to blame Dravid for Sachin's dismissal. I wouldn't blame it on Dravid because in the end, he was the only one who made a semi-meaningful contribution to our final score. If Dravid, who hasn't been in the ODI side for about 2 years knows on how to pick up scoring later on by avoiding losing wickets (like Sachin himself did in both the CB Series finals, and innumerable occasions in the past), Sachin would've known that he could capitalize when the spin bowling came on (which is what Dravid did - he had a big over with Dilshan). And its wrong to say that it was a poorly thoughtout shot. It was the perfect shot for the type of bowling that Kulasekhara was producing. That it was mistimed is another thing. He executed the same shot earlier in his innings, and it went for a four. He tried the same shot on the leg side and was caught. How is that Dravid's fault?

[jusarrived]

Tendulkar has been playing long enough that he knows how to chase 307. It is really unfair to blame Dravid for Sachin's dismissal. I wouldn't blame it on Dravid because in the end, he was the only one who made a semi-meaningful contribution to our final score. If Dravid, who hasn't been in the ODI side for about 2 years knows on how to pick up scoring later on by avoiding losing wickets (like Sachin himself did in both the CB Series finals, and innumerable occasions in the past), Sachin would've known that he could capitalize when the spin bowling came on (which is what Dravid did - he had a big over with Dilshan). And its wrong to say that it was a poorly thoughtout shot. It was the perfect shot for the type of bowling that Kulasekhara was producing. That it was mistimed is another thing. He executed the same shot earlier in his innings, and it went for a four. He tried the same shot on the leg side and was caught. How is that Dravid's fault?

its pretty obvious he still dosent .

[graphic23]

its pretty obvious he still dosent .

Yes. to your superior understanding of a player whom the rest of the world (barring the idiots next door) consider as one of the greatest players of all time (and greatest according to some). Man, just because I supported Dravid doesn't mean I thought Sachin played badly. You look at the # of times he failed, and I look at the number of times he's succeeded, and succeeded damn well too. How many players in world cricket (ever in ODIs) are experts at chasing scores 275+ that they've contributed every single time. It always requires something special. We didn't get that from Sachin nor from anyone today. But hey, since he's the scape goat, let's say that its his fault. Get off your high horse where you claim you know best because the rest of us are all "worshipers" or "blind".

[ludhianvi]

Dravid hit a four and then a massive sixer tonite.

[Shehezaada]

Tendulkar has been playing long enough that he knows how to chase 307. It is really unfair to blame Dravid for Sachin's dismissal. I wouldn't blame it on Dravid because in the end, he was the only one who made a semi-meaningful contribution to our final score. If Dravid, who hasn't been in the ODI side for about 2 years knows on how to pick up scoring later on by avoiding losing wickets (like Sachin himself did in both the CB Series finals, and innumerable occasions in the past), Sachin would've known that he could capitalize when the spin bowling came on (which is what Dravid did - he had a big over with Dilshan). And its wrong to say that it was a poorly thoughtout shot. It was the perfect shot for the type of bowling that Kulasekhara was producing. That it was mistimed is another thing. He executed the same shot earlier in his innings, and it went for a four. He tried the same shot on the leg side and was caught. How is that Dravid's fault?

I made it clear in my post that I'm not putting the blame on Dravid for Tendulkar getting out. Ultimately, barring run outs, if you play a bad stroke and you get out, it's YOUR fault. Having said that, Tendulkar wouldn't have HAD to play that stroke, lofting a ball from outside off stump over wide on, if Dravid had got his act together a little earlier. The CB Series finals? We were chasing 240, big difference. Then Dravid going at 12/24 is perfectly fine. Also, pitches in Australia don't get slower and lower and they didn't have a good bowling attack. How many people have chased 300 in SRL at Premadasa? 0 Why? If you do not make use of the power plays earlier on, the Sri Lankan spinners are like anacondas. They utilize the slow, low pitches, and make you sweat for your runs. The pressure builds and you crack. Dravid played well at the end but needs to do it at 5

[vvvslaxman]

How many people have chased 300 in SRL at Premadasa? 0 Why? If you do not make use of the power plays earlier on, the Sri Lankan spinners are like anacondas. They utilize the slow, low pitches, and make you sweat for your runs. The pressure builds and you crack. Dravid played well at the end but needs to do it at 5

That is my point as well. In Premadasa you have to make as much as possible in the first 15 overs to give yourself a little chance of pulling off a chase like this. 307 here is like 370 in most places. Start should be frenetic. If you reach like 100 in 15 overs you will still have to score 207 in 35 overs which is not an easy task. Atleast you can back yourself with 1 power play.

[graphic23]

I made it clear in my post that I'm not putting the blame on Dravid for Tendulkar getting out. Ultimately, barring run outs, if you play a bad stroke and you get out, it's YOUR fault. Having said that, Tendulkar wouldn't have HAD to play that stroke, lofting a ball from outside off stump over wide on, if Dravid had got his act together a little earlier. The CB Series finals? We were chasing 240, big difference. Then Dravid going at 12/24 is perfectly fine. Also, pitches in Australia don't get slower and lower and they didn't have a good bowling attack. How many people have chased 300 in SRL at Premadasa? 0 Why? If you do not make use of the power plays earlier on, the Sri Lankan spinners are like anacondas. They utilize the slow, low pitches, and make you sweat for your runs. The pressure builds and you crack. Dravid played well at the end but needs to do it at 5

And the difference was that in the 18th or 19th over, when Dravid had the large over off Dilshan, we were on par with their scoring rate. We just need the awesome "t20" hitting skills of Yuvraj, Raina, or Yusuf and none of them delivered. Blame it on that, not on Dravid's strokeplay, which in the end was the right way to play because he's the only guy who got a decent score and when he left the field, he'd gotten the runs at a higher strike rate than everyone else. If hitting out was so easy, how come Dhoni, Yuvraj, Raina, Yusuf, or Karthik couldn't stay in? Aren't these the guys who're better than Rahul at "hitting out"? Also your reasoning is wrong because Sachin had already played that shot before in his innings. So you get to choose which shot he played because of the pressure created at the other end? Wow, thats fair to the guy at the other end. Why not blame it always on the other end whenever Sachin or Sehwag gets out. Today its Dravid's fault when Sachin got out. Next time, its Gambhir's fault if Sehwag gets out. Great stuff. And coming to your point about Yuvraj's promotion to #3. How well did he handle Malinga bowling to him outside off, and every ball was an outswinger. This was in the 19th-20th over space. If he comes in early, I trust him to score about 5-6 runs at a 50% S/R and get out. Like someone else said, playing at #3 is an art, and Dravid's the best at it. Someone was claiming that when Dravid wastes balls, they remain wasted and he doesn't make it up. Did he not do that today?

[cowboysfan]

lets face it.with the present opening pair and dravid at 3 we are not chasing any big scores.If he has to play i would rather he play in the middle order against the spinners.we better hope GG is ready for the CT.

[Shehezaada]

And the difference was that in the 18th or 19th over' date=' when Dravid had the large over off Dilshan, we were on par with their scoring rate.[/quote'] no, we were only on par in the first 4 overs. Even after Dravid hit 6 and 4 off Dilshan, we were still a full 1.3 runs behind the run rate, 5.3 to 6.6.

We just need the awesome "t20" hitting skills of Yuvraj, Raina, or Yusuf and none of them delivered. Blame it on that, not on Dravid's strokeplay, which in the end was the right way to play because he's the only guy who got a decent score and when he left the field, he'd gotten the runs at a higher strike rate than everyone else. If hitting out was so easy, how come Dhoni, Yuvraj, Raina, Yusuf, or Karthik couldn't stay in? Aren't these the guys who're better than Rahul at "hitting out"?

Again, your missing the point. I'm not asking Dravid to hit out every ball. Your mistaking me for those people who want to see slam bang all the time...which isn't possible, not even in T20. I'm not sure if you watched the game today, but you have to recognize Tendulkar looked in great touch and was stroking the ball easily. Dravid came into the power play overs, and then proceeded to play out 24 deliveries for 12 runs, taking Tendulkar's momentum away from him. At #3, in the powerplays chasing a large total, as mentioned by VVS, you need to bat with intent. That was missing today from Dravid. Sure he made it up later, but by that time we were struggling with momentum. You can't equate power play balls with balls bowled outside the power plays. The chances to get more runs lie in the power play balls..which is why they CANNOT be wasted. Dravid isn't the right fit at #3 when chasing a large total because he requires time to set himself up, and by that time the powerplays are done. He was fine in the last game, anchoring the side with a low total and the run rate not an issue.

Also your reasoning is wrong because Sachin had already played that shot before in his innings. So you get to choose which shot he played because of the pressure created at the other end? Wow, thats fair to the guy at the other end. Why not blame it always on the other end whenever Sachin or Sehwag gets out. Today its Dravid's fault when Sachin got out. Next time, its Gambhir's fault if Sehwag gets out. Great stuff.

Again you miss the point, and your also wrong about Tendulkar playing that shot earlier. All but one of his boundaries came through the legside, and he went over the top of cover in the other, a safe shot to a straight ball outside off stump. Also, I didn't blame Dravid for his dismissal. He executed the shot wrong, trying to loft a slower one when he should have smashed it, it's his fault. But the point remains, if Dravid had got his act together earlier, Tendulkar wouldn't have had to take risks like that. Is that blaming Dravid for Tendulkar getting out? NO. But he did contribute to the overall process...something which you are missing time and time again. An example of this is a very well set batsmen getting out after the incoming batsmen comes in and scratches around looking very nervous. The momentum is lost, the bowler's are allowed to bowl to a plan, and then bang, wicket.

And coming to your point about Yuvraj's promotion to #3. How well did he handle Malinga bowling to him outside off, and every ball was an outswinger. This was in the 19th-20th over space. If he comes in early, I trust him to score about 5-6 runs at a 50% S/R and get out. Like someone else said, playing at #3 is an art, and Dravid's the best at it. Someone was claiming that when Dravid wastes balls, they remain wasted and he doesn't make it up. Did he not do that today?

If not Yuvraj, then Raina. Someone who has the ability to clear the field at will and someone who can take the pressure off Tendulkar as he quarterbacks our chase. Dravid is someone who feeds off Tendulkar, a support act. We need someone that can hit a few blows and keep the singles coming while chasing a large target. Batting first, or chasing a low target? There's no one better then Dravid. But, NOT while chasing a large target. Like I said before, you can't "make it up". The balls you wasted were in the fielding restrictions, balls that could have been better used by someone else. For the last time for those who think I'm a Dravid hater or being unnecessarily harsh on him. I love Dravid and he's a class act. I think he's an asset to the side at #5, not #3. Just where he's a lot more comfortable working the singles and then providing a good finish.

[graphic23]

no, we were only on par in the first 4 overs. Even after Dravid hit 6 and 4 off Dilshan, we were still a full 1.3 runs behind the run rate, 5.3 to 6.6.

There's a difference between "we were par on the required rate" vs. "we were on par with their scoring rate". After that Dilshan over, our score was something like 104/2 or something. Sri Lanka at the same stage were 106/3. Thats what I was referring to. Considering it was only Dravid and Yuvraj at the crease, and there were still Dhoni, Yusuf, Raina to come, and that middle order is supposedly one of the best in world, it shouldn't have been hard to match their scoring rate.

Again, your missing the point. I'm not asking Dravid to hit out every ball. Your mistaking me for those people who want to see slam bang all the time...which isn't possible, not even in T20. I'm not sure if you watched the game today, but you have to recognize Tendulkar looked in great touch and was stroking the ball easily. Dravid came into the power play overs, and then proceeded to play out 24 deliveries for 12 runs, taking Tendulkar's momentum away from him. At #3, in the powerplays chasing a large total, as mentioned by VVS, you need to bat with intent. That was missing today from Dravid. Sure he made it up later, but by that time we were struggling with momentum. You can't equate power play balls with balls bowled outside the power plays. The chances to get more runs lie in the power play balls..which is why they CANNOT be wasted. Dravid isn't the right fit at #3 when chasing a large total because he requires time to set himself up, and by that time the powerplays are done. He was fine in the last game, anchoring the side with a low total and the run rate not an issue.

Tendulkar has played enough with Dravid that they would know what they're doing at the crease. Bottom point is that it was a ball that had to be hit, and he didn't hit it properly. Why are you creating the circumstance around it to say that Dravid was fiddling around and not taking the singles? Yeah, Sachin was striking the ball well and he was doing that last time as well. But over the past year or so, he's gotten dismissed through a slower ball numerous times. So are all those dismissals due to the pressure around him? Unless Sachin says that he was trying to up the scoring rate and tried to hit a ball that didn't deserve to be hit, I don't believe the "Dravid took the momentum away from Sachin" nonsense.

Again you miss the point, and your also wrong about Tendulkar playing that shot earlier. All but one of his boundaries came through the legside, and he went over the top of cover in the other, a safe shot to a straight ball outside off stump. Also, I didn't blame Dravid for his dismissal. He executed the shot wrong, trying to loft a slower one when he should have smashed it, it's his fault. But the point remains, if Dravid had got his act together earlier, Tendulkar wouldn't have had to take risks like that. Is that blaming Dravid for Tendulkar getting out? NO. But he did contribute to the overall process...something which you are missing time and time again. An example of this is a very well set batsmen getting out after the incoming batsmen comes in and scratches around looking very nervous. The momentum is lost, the bowler's are allowed to bowl to a plan, and then bang, wicket.

So under pressure, you play the same ball on the leg side than if you were without pressure. Do you even make sense to yourself. You admit that he played a lofted shot over extra cover to a similar slower ball from the same bowler that had an offside line. Again, "under pressure", facing a similar delivery (but on the middle-off line), he tried to loft the ball and mistimed it to mid-on (or I don't recall where the fielder caught him). So when he makes the mistake, its due to circumstances despite him having played the same shot to the same bowler successfully just a few overs before. That is prejudice - not logic. And yes, if you're saying that Dravid gave away the momentum and thats why Sachin had to accelerate - that is blaming Dravid for SRT's dismissal - whether you intend it that way or not.

If not Yuvraj, then Raina. Someone who has the ability to clear the field at will and someone who can take the pressure off Tendulkar as he quarterbacks our chase. Dravid is someone who feeds off Tendulkar, a support act. We need someone that can hit a few blows and keep the singles coming while chasing a large target. Batting first, or chasing a low target? There's no one better then Dravid. But, NOT while chasing a large target.

Because only Sachin can quarterback your chase. How long will he need to do it for? 2-3 years right? After that? Dravid's a support act now? NO. Dravid is an anchor.They are two different things. At #3, he is supposed to be a rock - taking singles, giving the strike to the stroke players, and then capitalizing when the part timers came on. He played his role to perfection today. That the others didn't play their roles properly makes him stand out. You expected him to have 36 out of 24 balls in the power play? You saw how difficult it was to score. IMO, 12 off 24 isn't bad if you were going to end up with 48 off 55 anyway. Because the part timers like Jayasuriya, Dilshan, and spinners ilke Mendis were going to bowl later on. That was a time when Sachin could've scored because he's a terrific player of spin.

Like I said before, you can't "make it up". The balls you wasted were in the fielding restrictions, balls that could have been better used by someone else.

And they showed that today by.. edging the ball behind to Sangakkara. Your argument would hold true had Raina or Yuvraj or Dhoni or Yusuf tried to hit and were caught in the outfield. 2 of those people were caught behind by simple off-side bowling. Yuvraj's dismissal could've been guessed by a drunken monkey, as I said in the match thread. To think that he's played some 230 matches and cannot restrict himself from nudging outside off is a shame to a player you were suggesting to move at #3. Brilliant stuff. Raina had a first ball duck to a ball that was well outside off. Dhoni and Yusuf failed today.

For the last time for those who think I'm a Dravid hater or being unnecessarily harsh on him. I love Dravid and he's a class act. I think he's an asset to the side at #5, not #3. Just where he's a lot more comfortable working the singles and then providing a good finish.

I never said you were. I merely stated that you were wrong in this case to suggest that Dravid was indirectly why Sachin got out. Sachin got out because he didn't execute his shot properly. Not because Dravid gave away the momentum or what ever.

[The Outsider]

Yes. to your superior understanding of a player whom the rest of the world (barring the idiots next door) consider as one of the greatest players of all time (and greatest according to some). Man, just because I supported Dravid doesn't mean I thought Sachin played badly. You look at the # of times he failed, and I look at the number of times he's succeeded, and succeeded damn well too. How many players in world cricket (ever in ODIs) are experts at chasing scores 275+ that they've contributed every single time. It always requires something special. We didn't get that from Sachin nor from anyone today. But hey, since he's the scape goat, let's say that its his fault. Get off your high horse where you claim you know best because the rest of us are all "worshipers" or "blind".

jusarrived is a bonafide Tendulkar baiter and troll across multiple message boards on the web - don't bother trying to get into a logical discussion with this guy, instead use your grey cells elsewhere. His MO is trolling negative one liners about Tendulkar and disappearing into oblivion if someone responds with an intelligent post and then come out of his cave again when Tendulkar fails.

[Lord]

we cant blame RD for this loss.Dhoni should have been flexible n seeing the big scoe,should have sent in someone who could make use of powerplays.he himself was best option IMO.RD did fantastically wen field was opened but by then the required RR was too much