Temujin Khaghan Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 But if you choose to worship someone' date=' you believe you have chosen the right path and the right god, if someone else is worshipping someone else, they must be idiots, because you're god is the real deal, their god is fake and therefore they're idiots for worshipping a non-existent god[/quote'] bro iam a hindu. in one of the verses of gita, Krishna says that life is like a maze and there are several ways to choose from, whichever way you take if your ultimate goal is to reach to the almighty then you will end up with the almighty. It is for that reason that hinduism has always place for one more god. not just gods... even god men and CRICKET PLAYERS *coughcough* and film stars in thier pantheon. on a more serious note it is for that reason as lurker said, it isnt a crime for us hindus to go to the chapel in our christian missionary schools and pray before the exam... or tie the rakshak from the dargah (i dont know what they call it... def not rakshak) on our new bikes ... becoz for us we deliver our wishes to "god" thats it, the letter will be delivered. the chapel in this case is only a post box. now for a person of some other faith like christianity, it would be taboo to accept some other religion as "another way to reach god" for them there is only one path which has been passed on by thier prophets from god. A person might look at beautiful women in this world and maybe admire them... but would he imagine things about his close friend's wife? or his brother's wife? or his sister? mother's sister? no... never ... because its taboo... forbidden... only a pervert would. The way a muslim or christian would look at you if you force another religion on them would be like forcing perverted thoughts on them. its a complete no no for them. thats the way i understand this. So for dharmic religions there are many ways to reach god and the only way you cannot is the one wrong way - by going against consiousness. For Abrahamic religions there is only one to reach god - which is the way of thier prophet and countless number of wrong ways they need to keep off. The latter doesnt seem wrong in a certain point of view. World peace can be achieved if people who feel the other person's way is wrong just keepto themselves rather than force the right way (what thier religion says) on the other guy.
cowboysfan Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Human beings will find something else to kill each other if there was no religion.In a few centuries(if we are still around) religion will be replaced by something else and we will still be fighting each other.
DomainK Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Human beings will find something else to kill each other if there was no religion.In a few centuries(if we are still around) religion will be replaced by something else and we will still be fighting each other. True. First there were kingdoms, then there was race, now there is religion, tomorrow there will be something else (species? I will kick alien asses.)
ViruRulez Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 If you're a religious person, you have a chosen religion you follow. This is supposed to be the right path to 'God'. You will believe the way you live your life, the way you pray and everything else is the 'right way', its the way its supposed to be. Because obviously you wouldn't do it if it didn't make sense to you and you felt it was wrong because you're not an idiot. Now if you're doing the right thing, everyone who follows another religion must be an idiot, because they're doing it wrong Considering there is no religion which is followed by the majority (>50%) is it safe to say most religious people are idiots in the eyes of religious people? :hmmmm: Discuss. Religious people are following their own respective religions to the extremity. So, it would make more sense to say religions are a bit wrong rather than religious people. But then religions were made thousands of years ago and the whole world has changed completely in these thousands of years. So, what I believe and have always said is that all religions need to be modified and adjusted with the change of time. Things which were applicable thousands of years ago cannot be applicable right now. The world has completely changed and many of the things said by religions do not make sense in the present age. But we have been given brains and intellect to judge what is right and wrong. So, we should (including religious people) should be brave enough to realize that we cannot follow the extremities of religions in the modern age and religions need to be modified according to the present times for peaceful co-existence amongst all humans. And that is what most of us are doing except the conservatives who are still not ready to accept that it is 21st century and not thousands of years ago.
gs Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 True. First there were kingdoms' date=' then there was race, now there is religion, tomorrow there will be something else (species? I will kick alien asses.)[/quote'] I think religion has been a cause of conflict for ages now. Crusades are a very good example.
Sooda Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 it think the premise of the thread is a bit wrong, as Sarchasm has pointed out. I wouldnt call myself very religious but I try to be a practising muslim, I dont think that all non muslims are 'idiots' A lot of non muslims I know are Genii (is that the plural of genius ?) - and thats true. One of my best mates is brahmin and is a hell of a clever fecker. Another gora guy is a 'reborn' Xian, a very good mate -who very strongly believes in his faith now- and is an oxford graduate. These guys (particularly the gora, who wasnt born that way) must think about their religion and follow it for a reason. I respect that, dont agree with it of course Idiots? No. Misguided maybe, yes. W.r.t the ultimate question- which religion is right? Indeed, are ANY of them right? Well we'll all get the answer soon enough. Indeed. You can not have 2 religious people(of different religion) sitting in the room and both be right. One has to be wrong, but which one? It is for this reason that followers of most religion are indoctrinated to never doubt their beleifs. In Arabic there is even a word that suggests the state of mind when a Muslim is unsure about his beleif(fitna comes to mind but not sure about it). However there is a key difference between Abrhaminical religion and Eastern philosphies. Abrahaminical religion are based on concept of 1 God. And it is amazing how Muslims, Christians, Jews follow the same philosphy and kill each other. Eastern philoshpies, on the other hand, are not so much tied down by 1 God rigidity. Hence Eastern religions, by and large, are lot more peaceful towards other religion. It is not surprising to see photos of Kabba and Christ in an Hindu place but would be hardpressed to see it the other way around. To your point though yes it is stupid to think all religious people are right, cos they simply can not be. xxx True Muslims shouldnt certainly doubt their beliefs (and Im not sure what the term youre referring to is for that, fitna means 'tests' or 'trials' so I dont think thats it) but are actively encouraged to think about religion. Thats the only way your faith can be strengthened. I wouldnt say theyre indoctrinated not to doubt, and if they are they shouldnt be. Your statement in bold is very blase and generalised- whilst the violence does get a lot of publicity, historically abrahamic faiths have lived in harmony and flourished too. Spain in like the 15ith ish century for instance. Not to mention that Israelis and Palestians dont constitute the entire jewish and muslim populace! But yes your point is true- the similarities between christianity and Islam for egs are loads- most biblical stories are quranic ones as well, but its the differences that get the focus and cause the rifts
Sooda Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 One thing I will also ask is -define 'religious' Is it just guys who believe in a God? or people who pray to that God regularly? going back to your politico-religion point way up above Lurker... A true religious muslim would NOT kill himself in the name of Islam simply because killing a) Innocents and b) yourself; is EMPHATICALLY forbidden So its the guys who ARENT religious that are idiots, certainly in this scenario. Being religious or not is very much a point of view of course and the men who blew themselves up in London or New York probably thought they were uber-holy. They werent. youngindias point about Communalism being use for sociopolitical purposes is a good point and largely true- The illegal Jewish settlers in Israel believe they are following Gods word by living there- the fact that thats causing the conflict to go on and on is no deterrance. Very much a case of religion being the cause there. The 'land' element is merely the end and not a motive, espeically when you think about stories of Jewish Americans leaving their livelihoods to relocate to Israel
triam Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 W.r.t the ultimate question- which religion is right? Indeed, are ANY of them right? Well we'll all get the answer soon enough. How?
Lurker Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 Idiots? No. Misguided maybe, yes. See thats what I was hinting at. Although I appreciate your politeness, and candidness, it is also true that no-one wants his religious beleif to be thought as misguided. And clearly not everyone is right. W.r.t the ultimate question- which religion is right? Indeed, are ANY of them right? Well we'll all get the answer soon enough. Not soon enough, thats the problem my friend. What good would it do to know the "answer" after one has lived his life completely? Does it help to get married to someone you dont love simply because she is a co-religion? Or does it help not to get married to someone you love because what would the children follow? I dont mean to suggest I have any good answers but to me it is ridiculous that people are willing to screw this life for the want of a better afterlife. True Muslims shouldnt certainly doubt their beliefs (and Im not sure what the term youre referring to is for that, fitna means 'tests' or 'trials' so I dont think thats it) The word completely beats me right now. A close second would be shirk wherein you have any thought of someone apart from Him as the Almighty. But yes your point is true- the similarities between christianity and Islam for egs are loads- most biblical stories are quranic ones as well, but its the differences that get the focus and cause the rifts Which is why I once mentioned that if I could go back in time and rewrite history, I would probably vanish Abraham. This was probably made in a state of angst but the notion remains. If you look at his followers, and Jews/Muslims and Christians all claim to be his true successors, you have to wonder how world would have turned out without him. Needless to say it did not go down very well with his followers. xxx
Sooda Posted December 14, 2009 Posted December 14, 2009 See thats what I was hinting at. Although I appreciate your politeness, and candidness, it is also true that no-one wants his religious beleif to be thought as misguided. And clearly not everyone is right. Not soon enough, thats the problem my friend. What good would it do to know the "answer" after one has lived his life completely? Does it help to get married to someone you dont love simply because she is a co-religion? Or does it help not to get married to someone you love because what would the children follow? I dont mean to suggest I have any good answers but to me it is ridiculous that people are willing to screw this life for the want of a better afterlife. Triam to ans your Q- when the world ends Cant have the answers before writing the exam. This is why the reward for being a believer exists, having faith whilst many around you might fail. No religion prescribes unhappy marriages and in Indian culture (arranged marriages) the parents do the utmost to find the right person for that reason (holds true for Hindus and Muslims AFAIK) , and the couple have the final say- that is usually the case. I know there are instances of people being forced into marriages but thats a cultural NOT a religious issue, as Islam certainly dosent allow for that. So you choose someone good for you who is of youre religion (and if it matters-caste). 'Screwing' this life for the afterlife is in essence what Islam teaches. That this world matters not at all (weighs less than a mosquitoes wing according to one saying), and the whole point of this life is to gain reward for the hereafter. How many people can say they know the point of their lives? particularly amongst atheists? (fineleg had a thread on this a while ago) Which is why I once mentioned that if I could go back in time and rewrite history, I would probably vanish Abraham. This was probably made in a state of angst but the notion remains. If you look at his followers, and Jews/Muslims and Christians all claim to be his true successors, you have to wonder how world would have turned out without him. Needless to say it did not go down very well with his followers. xxx I kinda feel youre overstating the whole 'all abrahamic religions kill each other' stuff. The crusades happened centuries ago, but I guess there is the Israel palestine issue which is huge and that does p!ss off a lot of muslims. I need to look into why thyre called 'abrahamic' as the Prophet Abraham whilst quite important in Islam was certainly not nearly as big a figure as Mohammed, and not much more important than Moses, Noah and Jesus. I dont know enough about the origins of Xianity and Judaism I think its Jesus you'd want to vanish really.
coffee_rules Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Religion and faith is highly personal. Why do people want to wear it on their sleeve is what's causing all friction. Why does one want to debate and feel superior over the other? Even staunch buddhists (who are supposed to be peaceful and tolerant towards others) want to believe their's is the ultimate faith.! The worst kind are the atheists. They think everybody else are idiots.
Clarke Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Religion :hehe: I fail to understand how there are standards for everything in life (evidence, reason, logic, fairness) and then there's religion. Something thats full on crazy & is fed to you without an iota of evidence and people generally accept it either out of conformity or because of plain stupidity. I guess most people are just too scared of a world where there is no accountability for sins and actions, where death is simply the end of an organism and there is nothing that survives the vastness of time, and hence the blind faith.
Texy Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 post this thread on padosi forum and you'll be banned for life :giggle: Clarke 1
Clarke Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 post this thread on padosi forum and you'll be banned for life :giggle: They carry anti-blasphemy laws in their constitution where anything said against their prophet (of the "religion of peace") carries a maximum of death penalty .. what else do u expect ?
satishg Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Religion :hehe: I fail to understand how there are standards for everything in life (evidence, reason, logic, fairness) and then there's religion. Something thats full on crazy & is fed to you without an iota of evidence and people generally accept it either out of conformity or because of plain stupidity. I guess most people are just too scared of a world where there is no accountability for sins and actions, where death is simply the end of an organism and there is nothing that survives the vastness of time, and hence the blind faith. You have summed it up perfectly! Nothing more can be added for an argument against religions or faith in an unknown/non-existent super being.
SRT PWNS Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 It's not really a danger or a big problem to consider someone else wrong or idiotic for believing in or doing something different from another person. As human beings we do this all the time in many different situations, so it really isn't only limited to religion. The major problem arises when you have a threat or danger coming from the belief or behavior. Extremism is the worry, not the innocent one who peacefully follows a religion.
punjabi_khota Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Triam to ans your Q- when the world ends Cant have the answers before writing the exam. This is why the reward for being a believer exists, having faith whilst many around you might fail. 'Screwing' this life for the afterlife is in essence what Islam teaches. That this world matters not at all (weighs less than a mosquitoes wing according to one saying), and the whole point of this life is to gain reward for the hereafter. How many people can say they know the point of their lives? particularly amongst atheists? (fineleg had a thread on this a while ago) With due respect, not knowing the point of ones life and trying to find it while living it would be a better use of one's time than believing what a book says the purpose of life should be. Clarke 1
triam Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Sooda, When the world ends is a bogus answer. I understand you have to wait for the exam etc, but usually you know the timetable, when the exam is an what the subject is going to be, this is not similar to that at all. anyways, sorry if I am asking persnal questions, did you research all the religions before choosing the one you follow? is thre any other reason for you to follow our religion, other than the reason that you are born into it?
Lurker Posted December 15, 2009 Posted December 15, 2009 Triam to ans your Q- when the world ends. Cant have the answers before writing the exam. This is why the reward for being a believer exists, having faith whilst many around you might fail. Thats an erroneous analogy IMHO. Why is one taking exam? Because he himself was asked by Him to do so? Obviously not. The only reason one is taking this exam is because he was born into a particular religion and the "experts" within the religion suggest this life is an exam. Which frankly I dont quite beleive. If God is Almighty, Benevolent and merciful why would be want people to take this exam anyway? No religion prescribes unhappy marriages and in Indian culture (arranged marriages) the parents do the utmost to find the right person for that reason (holds true for Hindus and Muslims AFAIK) , and the couple have the final say- that is usually the case. I know there are instances of people being forced into marriages but thats a cultural NOT a religious issue, as Islam certainly dosent allow for that. Not true. Islam prescribes marriage only to people of the "book". And this is liberal for men who can marry Christians and jews but women can not. And neither men nor women are allowed to marry outside Islam. Of course people have done it regardless but the larger point remains. If you would like I could do search on web to pull this out. 'Screwing' this life for the afterlife is in essence what Islam teaches. That this world matters not at all (weighs less than a mosquitoes wing according to one saying), and the whole point of this life is to gain reward for the hereafter. How many people can say they know the point of their lives? particularly amongst atheists? (fineleg had a thread on this a while ago) They may not know the point of their life but atleast it is their free choice. You can not equate that with people following a religion because they were born into it(which bulk of followers are) and then suggesting it gives them a purpose. If you take a look at this thread you would see an interesting titbit. Many folks have suggested that in the end different religions are essentially the path to the same destination. I would also put my money that everyone, or almost everyone, who has made that statement would be Hindu, or belonging to Eastern philosphy. I can not make a case that a Muslim would feel that way, or a devout Christian for that matter. For Muslims the core tenant is "There is one God and Muhammed is the prophet" while Christian beleive in God, Son(Christ) and Holy Spirit. I understand it is a matter of faith but I can not be sympathetic to a philosphy which is exclusive in nature and essentially renders non-beleivers to Hell(in most cases). xxxx
flamy Posted December 17, 2009 Posted December 17, 2009 Triam to ans your Q- when the world ends Cant have the answers before writing the exam. This is why the reward for being a believer exists, having faith whilst many around you might fail. See, this is the carrot and stick that I despise about religion. Heaven and hell. 'Screwing' this life for the afterlife is in essence what Islam teaches. That this world matters not at all (weighs less than a mosquitoes wing according to one saying), and the whole point of this life is to gain reward for the hereafter. How many people can say they know the point of their lives? particularly amongst atheists? (fineleg had a thread on this a while ago) That just appalls me. I believe life is the most brilliant gift that a "higher power" would give. I grew up in a very relaxed religious environment being a Hindu (there is not too much Dogma). Religion was never force-fed to me, and I never felt overwhelmed. My only religious activities were praying before exams, praying for my gf to give it up (I always "pray" like talking to a best friend but with reverence, if you can make sense out of that), praying for health and family etc. Then, out of my own accord, I started reading some ISKCON material and let go of non-vegetarianism for a whole year before my family asked me to enjoy life a bit more and not be so caught up in religion and all those things. I started eating dead animals again but continued to chant and pray everyday without fail. But, I always used to feel guilty for selectively following the tenets. (the no masturbation rule was pretty fecked up :--D) I did this for 5 years before I had enough of all this and now I am very peaceful and deeply satisfied agnostic. I now take total responsibility for my life. I am GOD. I do not say that to be controversial or challenge the beliefs of other people. I say that because I believe it is true. I believe the Universe is Conscious and we are all connected. We are all GOD. I do not think religious people are idiots. I think people are idiots.
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