Is Ashwin the genuine all rounder we are looking for?

[Lord]

Broad was OK but Pollock - no mate! Pollock batted that low in that SA line up because they always batted deep.

Ashwin can be like Pollock

[Crookbond]

Ashwin can be like Pollock

:headshake: This is what Pollock could do and Ashwin just can't do this. 5Pugl2fZZsE

[Lord]

:headshake: This is what Pollock could do and Ashwin just can't do this. 5Pugl2fZZsE

hes a more sedate batsman.Pollock was more aggresive.in the end runs matter.I'm talking only from tests pov.

[Crookbond]

hes a more sedate batsman.Pollock was more aggresive.in the end runs matter.I'm talking only from tests pov.

Here's how I am going to end this - if India gets an all rounder like Pollock when we have MS Dhoni around, we will dominate cricket.

[The Outsider]

I could have answered this very easily' date=' but I would not let you turn this in another Sachin bashing thread. All I can say is the even if Sachin scores a doubles in both of next test, it will not increase my expectations from Sachin or further my confidence on him for next Australian tour, in case he makes it.[/quote'] I agree about not making this a Tendulkar thread but just for the record I was branded as a Bhakt till a couple of years back on ICF.

[GautiMaan]

I agree about not making this a Tendulkar thread but just for the record I was branded as a Bhakt till a couple of years back on ICF.

ur like Darth Vader:woot:

[Old guy]

I agree about not making this a Tendulkar thread but just for the record I was branded as a Bhakt till a couple of years back on ICF.

ur like Darth Vader:woot:

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[Raghav_12]

I agree about not making this a Tendulkar thread but just for the record I was branded as a Bhakt till a couple of years back on ICF.

Outy, you are getting it all wrong. My whole point in this thread has been that performances in this NZ series, be it from Ashwin, Pujara, Sehwag or Sachin, can not be taken as an indicator for how those performing individuals will do if they have to travel Australia today.

[The Outsider]

Outy' date=' you are getting it all wrong. My whole point in this thread has been that performances in this NZ series, be it from Ashwin, Pujara, Sehwag or Sachin, can not be taken as an indicator for how those performing individuals will do if they have to travel Australia today.[/quote'] I agree on the experienced cricketers with you, but the inexperienced ones can improve and learn from these performances. That's why I feel it was a very good decision by Dravid and Laxman to retire and give a good run to their replacements in familiar conditions.

[Magneto]

Ashwin is turning out to be a great minnow basher :--D

[Old guy]

Ashwin is turning out to be a great minnow basher :--D

i know why u hate off spinners :diablo:

[Raghav_12]

I agree on the experienced cricketers with you' date=' but the inexperienced ones can improve and learn from these performances. That's why I feel it was a very good decision by Dravid and Laxman to retire and give a good run to their replacements in familiar conditions.[/quote'] To me experienced cricketers and spinners fall in same category in context of this discussion. Fast bowling is only category where good performance (in ongoing series) will give me some confidence. Rest are business as usual. Win at home and absolutely suck in Aus/SA.

[Vilander]

Ashwin is a bowler and should never bat higher than 8. Let's not try to make him something he ain't. If he continues to get 20s' date=' 30s, 40s and occasional 50s that's more than enough from him but let's not call him an all-rounder.[/quote'] He is an allrounder, cant help it. And a good one at that, in that he gets selected for one skill alone.

[vvvslaxman]

To me experienced cricketers and spinners fall in same category in context of this discussion. Fast bowling is only category where good performance (in ongoing series) will give me some confidence. Rest are business as usual. Win at home and absolutely suck in Aus/SA.

Say you find a spinner who averages 25 in Australia/SA and averages 75 in India.. would you go for such a bowler? You suggest as if all spinners who bowl in India do well by default. Not a single spinner who has played more than 5 test averages below 25 in the last decade. Bhajji averages 30.48, Kumble 30.26 Ojha 28.53 Mishra 43.36 in India.

[rkt.india]

To me experienced cricketers and spinners fall in same category in context of this discussion. Fast bowling is only category where good performance (in ongoing series) will give me some confidence. Rest are business as usual. Win at home and absolutely suck in Aus/SA.

Murli one of the greatest spinner ever, check his record in Aus, you will know why spinners are never supposed to play a big role Australia if you fast bowlers don;t take wickets and batsmen dont score runs.

[saneindian]

To me experienced cricketers and spinners fall in same category in context of this discussion. Fast bowling is only category where good performance (in ongoing series) will give me some confidence. Rest are business as usual. Win at home and absolutely suck in Aus/SA.

Just curious to know, do the performances in the 90s from the star batsmen of that era come under the same category for you? Do you consider them to be worthless as well?

[Raghav_12]

Say you find a spinner who averages 25 in Australia/SA and averages 75 in India.. would you go for such a bowler? You suggest as if all spinners who bowl in India do well by default. Not a single spinner who has played more than 5 test averages below 25 in the last decade. Bhajji averages 30.48, Kumble 30.26 Ojha 28.53 Mishra 43.36 in India.

I would jump for such spinner and will go on hunger strike if he is not included in cricket team. It is too early to use averages for comparisons in case of Ashwin. For the sample size that Ashwin has, statistical parameters like average don't make sense.

Murli one of the greatest spinner ever' date=' check his record in Aus, you will know why spinners are never supposed to play a big role Australia if you fast bowlers don;t take wickets and batsmen dont score runs.[/quote'] You missing the point. I am not writing Ashwin off because he failed in Australia. Instead I am not ready to write him ON because he performed excellently in 4 test matches on home pitches against teams of WI and NZ. Narendra Hirwani had also played his first four home tests against NZ and WI and had 36 test wickets after those 4 tests while Ashwin has 33. We all know how big a failure Hirwani proved to be later on. Not that Ashwin would follow the same path, but we should appreciated these performances a bit cautiously. There are many other spinners who have decent records in India but couldn't help team when we toured overseas. There have been enough bowlers since departure of spin quartet who averaged in 25-ish in India, which is very good IMHO, but couldn't do anything to improve indian fortunes outside country. Hirwani - 17,Raju - 24, Ayub - 25, Kartik - 25, Ojha 28, Maninder 30. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmin1=15+Mar+1980;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

[rkt.india]

I would jump for such spinner and will go on hunger strike if he is not included in cricket team. It is too early to use averages for comparisons in case of Ashwin. For the sample size that Ashwin has, statistical parameters like average don't make sense. You missing the point. I am not writing Ashwin off because he failed in Australia. Instead I am not ready to write him ON because he performed excellently in 4 test matches on home pitches against teams of WI and NZ. Narendra Hirwani had also played his first four home tests against NZ and WI and had 36 test wickets after those 4 tests while Ashwin has 33. We all know how big a failure Hirwani proved to be later on. Not that Ashwin would follow the same path, but we should appreciated these performances a bit cautiously. There are many other spinners who have decent records in India but couldn't help team when we toured overseas. There have been enough bowlers since departure of spin quartet who averaged in 25-ish in India, which is very good IMHO, but couldn't do anything to improve indian fortunes outside country. Hirwani - 17,Raju - 24, Ayub - 25, Kartik - 25, Ojha 28, Maninder 30. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmin1=15+Mar+1980;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

You did not understand what I am saying. Don't expect him to be a great bowler or world beater in Australia and I dont, he will never be, even the great Murli was not. Bar leg spinners, more spinners dont do well there. I will be happy even if he continues to do well in home matches and decent abroad. For abroad, we need fast bowlers. Spinners will never win us matches in Aus, England, or SA.

[Trichromatic]

You did not understand what I am saying. Don't expect him to be a great bowler or world beater in Australia and I dont' date=' he will never be, even the great Murli was not. Bar leg spinners, more spinners dont do well there. I will be happy even if he continues to do well in home matches and decent abroad. For abroad, we need fast bowlers. Spinners will never win us matches in Aus, England, or SA.[/quote'] At best he can fancy his chances at Oval, Durban and WI (if pitches continue to be good for spinners).

[rkt.india]

At best he can fancy his chances at Oval' date=' Durban and WI (if pitches continue to be good for spinners).[/quote'] He will do well in WI, I guess. Durban not sure, it had been one of the fastest pitches bar last season.