Tiger80 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Right - when I'm talking about LGBT rights you come back with "What about ....?" I thought this tactic of "Whataboutism" ended with the erstwhile Soviet Union policy after the Cold War but it's making a comeback these days. Particularly, in Indian poetical discourse. http://www.economist.com/node/10598774 Dexter I asked you a simple question. You did not answer. If law recognise consensual gay sex then it must have provision for forced gay sex , which means male rape, so how could people want only one aspect to be recognised but not the other one. One man goes to police station to complain about that he was raped by gay and the answer he should receive is sorry sir our country only recognise consensual gay sex , but it is still not ready to recognise you as rape victim.Is this sound logical or progressive ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Dexter I asked you a simple question. You did not answer. If law recognise consensual gay sex then it must have provision for forced gay sex , which means male rape, so how could people want only one aspect to be recognised but not the other one. One man goes to police station to complain about that he was raped by gay and the answer he should receive is sorry sir our country only recognise consensual gay sex , but it is still not ready to recognise you as rape victim.Is this sound logical or progressive ? Your earlier post came across differently to me and others as well. In any case, the answer to your question is YES which would require Section 375 IIRC to be made gender-neutral by making a small amendment to the Criminal Amendment Bill (2013). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomainK Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 true. They have lost a sure voter in me.I refuse to vote for people who think people's right to basic needs is something they can take a decision on. Today it is this ...tomorrow they will tell us what to wear...how to live our life. They can go to hell. They care more for the millions that agree with their stance than the educated few who don't. BTW this is just a small hint of what to come if a party like BJP comes to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailender Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Since when do human rights become victim to "majority rules". If that's the case than many countries can justify a lot of atrocities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 They care more for the millions that agree with their stance than the educated few who don't. BTW this is just a small hint of what to come if a party like BJP comes to power. they have been in power for 6 yrs, those yrs weren't too bad in this regard. So the fear doesn't have basis (even if bjp alone has simple majority ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 true. They have lost a sure voter in me.I refuse to vote for people who think people's right to basic needs is something they can take a decision on. Today it is this ...tomorrow they will tell us what to wear...how to live our life. They can go to hell. This is how CongI has been scaring people away. 55 years of their rule didn't do squat about the rule. Now, in the election year they bring up a subject which is divisive at least among the youth. #377 is the trending in twitter/FB and people sharing FB status about how #377 needs to be repealed now before solving less important issues of corruption, inflation, price rise. Aren't there consenting gays having sex and are not in jail in India now? They do it behind closed doors and no one is complaining. Yes #377 has to be repealed, but before that gays have to fight the social stigma attached to it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 : : Yes #377 has to be repealed, but before that gays have to fight the social stigma attached to it as well. Disagree here. Supreme court judges and parliament should show the way. Favorable laws and judgements help fight social stigma. Its NOT about the number of arrests made under article 377. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 The government on Saturday said it did not plan to issue an ordinance on gay rights issue "now" to negate the Supreme Court judgement on homosexuality that has sparked an uproar. "Not now. Our (Congress) Vice-President and President have already spoken on the issue. I am with them," Union Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde told reporters on the sidelines of a function here http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/not-now-says-shinde-on-issuing-ordinance-on-377-113121400639_1.html Hope con party supporters stop posting biased comments against BJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/not-now-says-shinde-on-issuing-ordinance-on-377-113121400639_1.html Hope con party supporters stop posting biased comments against BJP They wont.. Atleast the mods profit from the traffic generated by endless debates on Jaahil Vs the non-Jaahil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 They wont.. Atleast the mods profit from the traffic generated by endless debates on Jaahil Vs the non-Jaahil :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 ^ It's just a sarcastic comment i guess , but funny though :haha: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 They care more for the millions that agree with their stance than the educated few who don't. BTW this is just a small hint of what to come if a party like BJP comes to power. This is again an indication that educated few mentioned continues to live in bubble and remains disconnected with the world around. Hate to break this to you, there is nothing in our education which make us more understanding or accepting of homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Love BJP s stand on homosexuality there isn't any fence sitting. Instead bold stance based on the majority stance among people in India. Democracy is rule of majority by default as long as it is not detrimental on a particular religion, caste etc. Homosexuals afaic can still continue to Co habit and fulfil carnal needs as the new law is not enforceable in that aspect. I am no honophobic, instead am v much part of lgbt group in my Co. But what is exactly the new law taking away from this group? They can still adopt. They can bequeath property so what's not there? The movement has to start within the society. In a democracy changes have to be bottom upward. Representatives who make laws are hence elected by people, so that they represent their views, and it's clear majority of people, while they might not be interested in who sleeps with who, are offended by public display of that. In a way comparisons aren't stupid with public nudity. There is a section who advocate that, how d it feel if it's legislated into a law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 ^^^^ is that you or your avatar speaking?:((:(( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 ^ But he is right , its better to be non-popular than hypocrite. On one hand Con party top guns says they are against SC decision , while HM says they cannot do anyhting "now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 :facepalm: I think he figured out how MTC is buying the Porsche Spyder. :secret: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 So many HANDS(no pun intended) sticking up for Gay rights rolled into human rights rolled into acheiving salvation :sniffle: Wonder how well other relatively small subsets of human rights like WOmen and Childern performed under the safe HANDS for over 60 years. I know this is confusing to a Jaahil like me but how is a statement issued to satisfy the 'jaahil' fans as well catering to some 'non-jaahil' fans a bigoted statement Or is there a new cult of Non-Jaahils I am not aware about :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 This is again an indication that educated few mentioned continues to live in bubble and remains disconnected with the world around. Hate to break this to you, there is nothing in our education which make us more understanding or accepting of homosexuals. Just look at media coverage on Section 377 .It was big issue on Times now, CNN IBN,NDTV English.But surprisingly the coverage was very low profile on Hindi channels. There were hardly any prime time discussions .This clearly shows that all the channels were catering their audience .Hindi speakers, which are more traditional and conservative don't concern about much about gay rights so they hindi channels just cater their audience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^^^^ is that you or your avatar speaking?:((:(( Not really. I have had close friends who were gay and it didn't make any difference in our friendship. Only a few close people knew he was gay because he wanted his private thing to be private. Just like any of us who want to keep our private life ours. I completely respect him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Ignorance is not an excuse for bigotry. If the majority opposes/doesn't care about homosexuality, it does not make it OK for the state to discriminate. Plus, if this really was such a hot button issue for the majority, we would have seen more opposition in the last 4 years when consensual homosexuality was decriminalized. It is only a big issue for a small group of numbnuts who are the self-anointed thekedars of their religions and culture. Equal rights for the gay community are not some privilege to be bequeathed to them by the larger hetero population, just like rights for Scheduled castes are not given to them by the upper castes. They are guaranteed equality by the constitution and it is the responsibility of the courts/legislature to enforce this guarantee Decriminalization of consensual sex is such a basic step that it shouldn't be even part of a debate. It is simply a way to pave way for discussions for which laws would be required - marriage equality and adoption rights for the gay community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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