Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[ABDfan]

Just now, Jay said:

But they got punished and paid for it. Besides these boys look their age and are barley 2-3 years older than their stated age as mentioned. 

 

Amir said 7-8 for pakistam and they don't get punished. Huge difference buddy.

Watch full video please and provide link for Amir's article so i can read that

[Jay]

31 minutes ago, ABDfan said:

Watch full video please and provide link for Amir's article so i can read that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/firstsportz.com/pakistan-bowlers-age-is-different-than-what-is-there-on-paper-says-mohammad-asif/%3famp

[Vijy]

On 1/31/2022 at 4:17 AM, express bowling said:

I am one of the biggest bowling speed enthusiasts on this site.I just love quick bowling, especially from Indian Fast Bowlers.

 

But this thread is getting derailed in the last 5 pages or so.

 

Pace bowling in cricket is NOT a speed gun contest  !!

 

The purpose of high bowling speeds are ---

 

1)  Hurrying batsmen consistently

2)  Bowling hostile short balls from time to time. 

 

.... Resulting in taking wickets and winning matches.

 

If a bowler is able to do them ... using a mixture of

 

1)  High release speeds

2)  Zip off the deck

3)  Steep bounce

4)  Late movement

5)  Sufficient accuracy to utilize the above four aspects effectively 

 

... that is what matters.

 

The reasons why I track speeds closely are 

 

1)  Whether a pacer has SUFFICIENT speed needed for international cricket.

2)  Speed readings tell us whether a pacer is bowling at HIS OPTIMUM speeds. 

3)  If that's not the case then the pacer maybe 

....  Lacking rhythm

....  Having some niggle or injury

....  Lacking match fitness or getting too old

....  Having issues with ball release

I want to gauge these aspects.

4)  It is a fun to track speeds for fast bowling enthusiasts.

 

Saini has clocked higher speeds than Bumrah and Wahab has clocked higher speeds than Shaheen. But no sane Indian speed enthusiast would want Saini in place of Bumrah. And no sane Pakistani speed enthusiast would want Wahab in place of Shaheen.

 

Yes ... we will all be very happy when one of our countrymen clocks 150 kph + 

 

But, from a cricket point of view, having sufficient speed to hurry batsmen regularly and bowl hostile short balls from time to time, is good enough. 

 

@Mosher, @Suhaan, @Vijy, @sarchasm, @rollingstoned, @SRT100  this thread has discussed Pace bowling and bowling speeds with passion and objectivity for the last 8 years. Suddenly, a handful of new Padosi posters are derailing this thread. If the Pakistani pacers are quick, let them be. Maybe, I should change the name of this thread to include Indian pacers to stop this derailment. Let them open a separate thread to bicker about Pakistani pacers.

 

 

 

I fully agree. this thread has become full of puerile name-calling and all kinds of subjective "criteria" being used. Might be time to rename or close thread.

[the don]

152. 5 kph from Haris Rauf. He is consistently hitting the 150 kph mark. At his fastest these days. 

[Vijy]

@express bowling: You should consider changing the title. I assume that PakPassion doesn't have their own pace-bowling thread, otherwise I do not understand the recent inundation by Pakistanis, which is not a problem by itself but the original purpose of the thread has been diverted.

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, Vijy said:

@express bowling: You should consider changing the title. I assume that PakPassion doesn't have their own pace-bowling thread, otherwise I do not understand the recent inundation by Pakistanis, which is not a problem by itself but the original purpose of the thread has been diverted.

 

 

Yes ... we want objective discussions about pace bowlers. 

 

Discussing different aspects of pace bowlers, including bowling speeds.

 

But bickering non stop about who is faster serves no purpose. 

 

The more important thing is ... whether a pacer has good speeds for his bowling style, bounce and accuracy.  

 

Shorter pacers, pacers without natural bounce and pacers who get less movement need to be quicker. 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Hangargekar was consistently in the 137 kph to 139 kph range in the semi finals. Bowled a fastest of 141.7 kph.

 

Started off trying to extract a lot of bounce. And bowled a lot of channel balls and off stump balls later on. 

 

And he always gets significant Indip. 

 

He is usually a very economical bowler ... and this, combined with his big hitting abity, may go down well with Indian TMs. 

 

A catch was missed at slip yesterday. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by express bowling

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Hangargekar was consistently in the 137 kph to 139 kph range in the semi finals. Bowled a fastest of 141.7 kph.

 

Started off trying to extract a lot of bounce. And bowled a lot of channel balls and off stump balls later on. 

 

And he always gets a lot of Indip. 

 

He is usually a very economical bowler ... and this, combined with his big hitting abity, may go down well with Indian TMs. 

 

A catch was missed at slip yesterday. 

trying to get back this thread on back, I thought Hangu looked sharp today but he was a bit too short today. Needs to work a little on hitting a slightly fuller length than before (it can still be back-of-a-length, but only slightly).

 

Trundler Kumar didn't impress me in this match. In previous matches, he could hit 135+ kph on occasion and swung the ball both ways. today, I found him mundane for the most part, except for some good wkt-taking balls. even that tailender smashed him easily.

 

Bawa has been the most inconsistent of the lot. some balls are potent, others are toothless. I wonder if he should work on becoming a batting AR than a bowling AR since he seems to have more batting chops than Hangu, albeit most of his runs came against Uganda.

 

lastly, I saw 2-3 dropped catches today. very disappointing

Edited February 3, 2022 by Vijy

[prudent_kreeda]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:24 AM, rollingstoned said:

Chhoti chhoti khushiyan, i have ignored the thread since it became a pointless arbitrary dick waving contest here when we are not even playing. If it helps some people sleep better so be it, dredging up what someone bowled in a match on a particular ball 5 yrs ago in a meaningless t20 or odi game isn't some spadework that I feel is worth doing. 

 

Blame is on us also. When you can make out what the agenda of a poster , why go on reacting to such posts . Just ignore . We should be discussing about Indian pacers mostly . This is not the place for oneupmanship , if someone is really good from any country so be it . The performances will prove it rather than assumed potential. If someone is good treat them so irrespective of country. 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Yes ... we want objective discussions about pace bowlers. 

 

Discussing different aspects of pace bowlers, including bowling speeds.

 

But bickering non stop about who is faster serves no purpose. 

 

The more important thing is ... whether a pacer has good speeds for his bowling style, bounce and accuracy.  

 

Shorter pacers, pacers without natural bounce and pacers who get less movement need to be quicker. 

 

 

 

Shorter pacers can get bounce off good lengths too. All depends on how hard you hit the surface. Wagner sacrificed speed for bounce. He is only 5 10. He is probably one of the best short ball bowlers going around. 

 

Shami used to do it. Now he is old. 

 

Sure, taller bowlers have an advantage as they don't have to try as hard to hit the pitch as hard to get bounce but shorter bowlers can be just as potent with either 1) slightly extra pace to get zip off the deck. Like 3-4 km quicker or 2) hit the deck harder by putting more of your body into the delivery stride. 

[express bowling]

The most important issue that needs to be addressed is ... Team India's overwhelming preference for floaty medium pacers in T20I.

 

If Bumrah has a niggle during the T20 WC 2022, we may see a  " pace attack " ( or shall I say " military medium defence "  )  of Bhuvi, Deepak and Harshal.

 

While Australia won their first T20 World Cup with a pace attack of

... Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins ... proper Fast and Fast-medium pacers at test level too.

... South Africa will field Rabada and Nortje and

... Pakistan will have Shaheen and Rauf. 

... England will have 2 among Wood, Archer, Jordan and Mills. 

... NZ will have Ferguson and Milne. The bouncy Jamieson too.

 

Why are we going back to the 1980s ?

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by express bowling

[Jay]

48 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

Blame is on us also. When you can make out what the agenda of a poster , why go on reacting to such posts . Just ignore . We should be discussing about Indian pacers mostly . This is not the place for oneupmanship , if someone is really good from any country so be it . The performances will prove it rather than assumed potential. If someone is good treat them so irrespective of country. 

Agreed. 

So my dear Pakistani brethren. Just accept it. Prasidh tyagi umran and mavi have more potential than your young guns who are actually older than their stated age.

 

Dhania dahani whatever is 28 Lel.

This shaheen is definitely 26 at the very least. 

Zeeshan looks 26 rofl

 

Anyway goodluck. Don't quote me.

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Shorter pacers can get bounce off good lengths too. All depends on how hard you hit the surface. Wagner sacrificed speed for bounce. He is only 5 10. He is probably one of the best short ball bowlers going around. 

 

Shami used to do it. Now he is old. 

 

Sure, taller bowlers have an advantage as they don't have to try as hard to hit the pitch as hard to get bounce but shorter bowlers can be just as potent with either 1) slightly extra pace to get zip off the deck. Like 3-4 km quicker or 2) hit the deck harder by putting more of your body into the delivery stride. 

 

 

My point is that ... if a pacer lacks natural bounce then he needs to be quicker  a) Either by having high release speeds  b)  or by getting extra zip off the deck  or   c)  preferably by having both.

 

Yes, some short pacers like Marshall, Shami and Wagner did get / do get extra bounce for their heights. But it is not that common. And when it happens, those pacers keep surprising batsmen and getting wickets.

 

 

[Suhaan]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

The most important issue that needs to be addressed is ... Team India's overwhelming preference for floaty medium pacers in T20I.

 

If Bumrah has a niggle during the T20 WC 2022, we may see a  " pace attack " ( or shall I say " military medium defence "  )  of Bhuvi, Deepak and Harshal.

 

While Australia won their first T20 World Cup with a pace attack of

... Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins ... proper Fast and Fast-medium pacers at test level too.

... South Africa will field Rabada and Nortje and ... Pakistan will have Shaheen and Rauf. 

... England will have 2 among Wood, Archer, Jordan and Mills. 

... NZ will have Ferguson and Milne. The bouncy Jamieson too.

 

Why are we going back to the 1980s ?

 

T20 cricket isn't for sub 130k-135k bowlers anymore,if they are in, perhaps they are for their batting ability they bring in

Genuine bowlers of that category are getting sidelined in this format

 

barring India I don't see sides entertaining these kind of one trick pony bowlers in 2-3 years time

Its so apparant that people sitting at the top must see,with powergame getting evolved so much ,lining up against these bowlers will be quite easy  unless the strip is too two paced or conditions are haven for bowlers swinging at that pace

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

The most important issue that needs to be addressed is ... Team India's overwhelming preference for floaty medium pacers in T20I.

 

If Bumrah has a niggle during the T20 WC 2022, we may see a  " pace attack " ( or shall I say " military medium defence "  )  of Bhuvi, Deepak and Harshal.

 

While Australia won their first T20 World Cup with a pace attack of

... Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins ... proper Fast and Fast-medium pacers at test level too.

... South Africa will field Rabada and Nortje and ... Pakistan will have Shaheen and Rauf. 

... England will have 2 among Wood, Archer, Jordan and Mills. 

... NZ will have Ferguson and Milne. The bouncy Jamieson too.

 

Why are we going back to the 1980s ?

 

This is down to the squad selection, we will need to get the best pace men in very quickly and build a potent t20 attack, it will only happen after trying out different options, good job is that the main contenders in prasidh, Siraj, avesh, mavi are all regulars for their ipl teams, the transition will not be to difficult because the bowled mentioned above all have high pedigree and good skill set, it's a matter of time shardul, bhuvi etc get replaced. Chahar in the odi squad is fine for now. The next India A tour must contain a long odi series or a quadrangular at home, Yash dayal, umran, hangarekar, nalkande should all be tried out.

[rollingstoned]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

The most important issue that needs to be addressed is ... Team India's overwhelming preference for floaty medium pacers in T20I.

 

If Bumrah has a niggle during the T20 WC 2022, we may see a  " pace attack " ( or shall I say " military medium defence "  )  of Bhuvi, Deepak and Harshal.

 

While Australia won their first T20 World Cup with a pace attack of

... Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins ... proper Fast and Fast-medium pacers at test level too.

... South Africa will field Rabada and Nortje and

... Pakistan will have Shaheen and Rauf. 

... England will have 2 among Wood, Archer, Jordan and Mills. 

... NZ will have Ferguson and Milne. The bouncy Jamieson too.

 

Why are we going back to the 1980s ?

 

It feels as though bowlers being able to hit the pitch hard/bowl a hard length at high pace has become more important in white ball cricket than what it used to be. I don't know if it has also something to do why finger spin in the same format has become passe or why overwhelmingly wrist spinners are dominating the format for a while now. Does 2 new balls not favor the floaty deceptive bowling as much eg Bhuvi, Harshal Patel? Nzl's best bowler in LOIs by some distance is actually Lockie Ferguson who bowls exactly like this.

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

It feels as though bowlers being able to hit the pitch hard/bowl a hard length at high pace has become more important in white ball cricket than what it used to be. I don't know if it has also something to do why finger spin in the same format has become passe or why overwhelmingly wrist spinners are dominating the format for a while now. Does 2 new balls not favor the floaty deceptive bowling as much eg Bhuvi, Harshal Patel? Nzl's best bowler in LOIs by some distance is actually Lockie Ferguson who bowls exactly like this.

 

The white ball stops swinging after 3 or 4 overs. So, medium paced swing bowlers look innocuous after that.

 

Some medium pacers try to become better by being slower ball experts. But even here, a pacer who is bowling around 90 mph and then bowls a slower ball, is far more effective than somene who drops down to 74 mph from 80 mph.

 

Moreover, the medium paced slower ball experts lose sting when they lose their novelty factor and become well known.

[msb1991]

I think Harshal is different. He's a massive wicket taking option in T20s. I think current Bhuvi and Deepak are not the route to success though. I would always prefer someone like Siraj. 

[Vijy]

15 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

The white ball stops swinging after 3 or 4 overs. So, medium paced swing bowlers look innocuous after that.

 

Some medium pacers try to become better by being slower ball experts. But even here, a pacer who is bowling around 90 mph and then bowls a slower ball, is far more effective than somene who drops down to 74 mph from 80 mph.

 

Moreover, the medium paced slower ball experts lose sting when they lose their novelty factor and become well known.

like harshal "marshall" patel, vinny "legend" kumar, and jaydev "terror" unadcutter among others.

[the don]

Shaheen afridi bowling 145-148 kph against the likes of hales and munro. 

Best white new ball bowler in the world by a distance currently.