Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Don't need to be mcgrath level bro. Hazelwood level is enough. 

wo bhi mil jaye bata dena

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, express bowling said:

Earlier they had given a lot of games to Rauf and Naseem when they were very raw

Naseem shah just made his debut in ODI in netherland series and his t20 debut was today .............what chances he got early

In test , he was taken early but they persisted with him coz they are struggling with options in test cricket when it comes to pace bowling. Basically lack of options

 

Lot of games ??? 

 

Rauf also made it to side coz they were struggling with options in t20 , he was performing in BBL. Again one the reason of picking n backing was lack of options

 

Dahani has been someone who has been toiling it in domestic n finally he made it 

 

Naseem, Hasnain, Rauf are playing leagues around the world they are developing in white ball quicker . If you see Naseem performance in early leagues he was struggling but as time progressed he got better 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, express bowling said:

Shami is not the best T20 pacer going around ( but he is a massive PP wicket taker ) 

 

In t20i  Powerplay 

 

Shami 

avg 49 

eco- 8.45

 

Not to forget he has been a big failure in t20 internationals , his IPL powerplay numbers also fall behind other 3 international numbers 

 

On the other bhuvi in PP (absolute gold) 

avg 23

eco - 5.73 

 

Deepak chahar

avg 27

eco 7.93

 

Shami has no case ahead of both of them, absolute no case in powerplay. Death bowling is anyways shami weak point 

 

Ravi ashwin - he is a better powerplay option then shami 

Avg 27.9 

eco - 7.54

 

Avesh Khan (Surprise Surprise, even his IPL Powerplay numbers are better then Shami )

avg 13.6

Eco 6.42 

 

Bumrah

Avg 27

Eco 6.11

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Axl100mph]

Naseem is a world class talent. We have still not even seen him bowl to his full potential. If he fixes his crossed front foot, he will turn into an anderson who bowls 10-12 kphs quicker. 

 

His issue right now is that his upper and lower halves are not alligned, which doesn't allow him to bowl at full pace yet as he is always scared of doing his back. 

Even his run up has slower down due to this reason.  

Edited August 28, 2022 by Axl100mph

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Axl100mph said:

Naseem is a world class talent. We have still not even seen him bowl to his full potential. If he fixes his crossed front foot, he will turn into an anderson who bowls 10-12 kphs quicker. 

 

His issue right now is that his upper and lower halves are not alligned, which doesn't allow him to bowl at full pace yet as he is always scared of doing his back. 

Even his run up has slower down due to this reason.  

Lots of bowlers will have similar excuses bro. Naseem is a good talent but long way to go. 

 

 

[Axl100mph]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Lots of bowlers will have similar excuses bro. Naseem is a good talent but long way to go. 

 

 

Natural ability is there for everyone to see. I didnt say he is a world class bowler, rather a potential of that category. 

The amount of velocity he generates with the arm speed and the backspin he imparts are just natural. 

But he will only get there if he fixes the issue i highlighted.

 

Just check in this image. His upper body wants to finish at first slip, but his lower body is pointing at fine leg. 

 

Most Pakistani bowlers you see have such glaring technical faults because of terrible coaching.

 

They all have an abundance of natural flair and ability but it is these faults that hold them down and stop them from progressing.  

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Don't need to be mcgrath level bro. Hazelwood level is enough. 

I guess Prasidh cud hv come close to Hazelwood..but he is lacking consistency..was expecting him to do better recently..as he has got good experience now

[the don]

1 hour ago, Axl100mph said:

Naseem is a world class talent. We have still not even seen him bowl to his full potential. If he fixes his crossed front foot, he will turn into an anderson who bowls 10-12 kphs quicker. 

 

His issue right now is that his upper and lower halves are not alligned, which doesn't allow him to bowl at full pace yet as he is always scared of doing his back. 

Even his run up has slower down due to this reason.  

He is supremely natural.

Clocking 145 kph with a very slow run up and one leg in the final over. 
i want him to go back to that quick run up and sort out the alignment.

[rollingstoned]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Naseem shah just made his debut in ODI in netherland series and his t20 debut was today .............what chances he got early

In test , he was taken early but they persisted with him coz they are struggling with options in test cricket when it comes to pace bowling. Basically lack of options

 

Lot of games ??? 

 

Rauf also made it to side coz they were struggling with options in t20 , he was performing in BBL. Again one the reason of picking n backing was lack of options

 

Dahani has been someone who has been toiling it in domestic n finally he made it 

 

Naseem, Hasnain, Rauf are playing leagues around the world they are developing in white ball quicker . If you see Naseem performance in early leagues he was struggling but as time progressed he got better 

 

i think that is the crux of the point he is trying to make, depth being greater also means chances that some young bowler will get fast tracked ahead of someone experienced, even if he has promise is quite slim. Look at Siraj as an eg. that is not a problem Pakistan face. Anyway the original point was about pace, not necessarily quality of bowlers which Nikhil_cric was talking about. I don't think Pakistan's pool of fast bowlers - young or old - is better than ours. 

[Nikhil_cric]

7 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

Natural ability is there for everyone to see. I didnt say he is a world class bowler, rather a potential of that category. 

The amount of velocity he generates with the arm speed and the backspin he imparts are just natural. 

But he will only get there if he fixes the issue i highlighted.

 

Just check in this image. His upper body wants to finish at first slip, but his lower body is pointing at fine leg. 

 

Most Pakistani bowlers you see have such glaring technical faults because of terrible coaching.

 

They all have an abundance of natural flair and ability but it is these faults that hold them down and stop them from progressing.  

Plenty of our young bowlers too have technical faults. 

 

Naseem is very gifted but the lingering suspicion remains that he is both a tad too short to be an elite pacer and that he is not loose-limbed/elastic enough to stay uninjured for a long period of time. 

[iam_rahul]

Lmao "38 bowlers in India better than Naseem" 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by iam_rahul

[iam_rahul]

9 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Naseem shah just made his debut in ODI in netherland series and his t20 debut was today .............what chances he got early

In test , he was taken early but they persisted with him coz they are struggling with options in test cricket when it comes to pace bowling. Basically lack of options

 

Lot of games ??? 

 

Rauf also made it to side coz they were struggling with options in t20 , he was performing in BBL. Again one the reason of picking n backing was lack of options

 

Dahani has been someone who has been toiling it in domestic n finally he made it 

 

Naseem, Hasnain, Rauf are playing leagues around the world they are developing in white ball quicker . If you see Naseem performance in early leagues he was struggling but as time progressed he got better 

 

Pakistan fast bowling factory is real and working well. Lot of people here bursting with jealousy trying to make nobodies like Prasidh and Avesh as some faaast express bowler. India is Bumrah or burst

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, iam_rahul said:

India is Bumrah or burst

 

[Need4Speed]

8 hours ago, iam_rahul said:

Pakistan fast bowling factory is real and working well. Lot of people here bursting with jealousy trying to make nobodies like Prasidh and Avesh as some faaast express bowler. India is Bumrah or burst

I guess..as also said by other ICF members too..we will need to give 20-25 matches to Umran and even Mohsin as well..even Arshdeep I saw was generating little more pace per his standards..I guess..as he gets more confident with more matches under his belt..he can add pace..plus..I really hope he he develops more swing..

even Khaleel can still improve further..

and if TM is hell bent on making Avesh a realiable bowler..then someone work with this guy..work on his fitness levels and run-ups..may be with that improvement,,he is better able to focus and execute well..and think a bit too..

[singhvivek141]

11 hours ago, iam_rahul said:

Pakistan fast bowling factory is real and working well. Lot of people here bursting with jealousy trying to make nobodies like Prasidh and Avesh as some faaast express bowler. India is Bumrah or burst

Problem is most of the products of this factory is "made in china" and hence get scrap in 4-5 years. Hassan Ali, Junaid Khan, Aizaz Cheema, Sohail Khan (hope I am getting the name right), That 7 foot tall bowler...they all just vanished after couple of seasons, maybe while trying to bowl faster than their capacity just take a toll on their body. 

 

In comparison, India is churning out fast to express bowlers one after the other in abundance. Arshdeep whom I thought as a 125-132 bowler was going 140+. So they don't lack "pace" per say. Maybe if BCCI can spend some money to recruit proper bowling coaches that could help.

 

I admire than Pakistan always try to bring in best coaches they can with whatever little money they have. 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:33 AM, rollingstoned said:

i think that is the crux of the point he is trying to make, depth being greater also means chances that some young bowler will get fast tracked ahead of someone experienced, even if he has promise is quite slim. Look at Siraj as an eg. that is not a problem Pakistan face. Anyway the original point was about pace, not necessarily quality of bowlers which Nikhil_cric was talking about. I don't think Pakistan's pool of fast bowlers - young or old - is better than ours. 

I was talking about pace only. I don't think the quality is better than ours. Not at the moment anyway. And definitely not in the longer formats . 

 

 

[ind_hyd1]

15 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Problem is most of the products of this factory is "made in china" and hence get scrap in 4-5 years. Hassan Ali, Junaid Khan, Aizaz Cheema, Sohail Khan (hope I am getting the name right), That 7 foot tall bowler...they all just vanished after couple of seasons, maybe while trying to bowl faster than their capacity just take a toll on their body. 

 

In comparison, India is churning out fast to express bowlers one after the other in abundance. Arshdeep whom I thought as a 125-132 bowler was going 140+. So they don't lack "pace" per say. Maybe if BCCI can spend some money to recruit proper bowling coaches that could help.

 

I admire than Pakistan always try to bring in best coaches they can with whatever little money they have. 

 

Absolutely correct, how many matches have they won in south africa and Australia with those bowlers? Remember a test match in Abu Dhabi where 3 srilankan bowlers with pace of 135 kmph out bowled them and won that match.

 

 

 

 

[Need4Speed]

On 8/29/2022 at 1:44 PM, singhvivek141 said:

Problem is most of the products of this factory is "made in china" and hence get scrap in 4-5 years. Hassan Ali, Junaid Khan, Aizaz Cheema, Sohail Khan (hope I am getting the name right), That 7 foot tall bowler...they all just vanished after couple of seasons, maybe while trying to bowl faster than their capacity just take a toll on their body. 

 

In comparison, India is churning out fast to express bowlers one after the other in abundance. Arshdeep whom I thought as a 125-132 bowler was going 140+. So they don't lack "pace" per say. Maybe if BCCI can spend some money to recruit proper bowling coaches that could help.

 

I admire than Pakistan always try to bring in best coaches they can with whatever little money they have. 

 

I was watching the Aaj tak post match video where they Were also talking to Arshdeep’s coach..who was trying to say something like you will see his pace is going to increase..but stupid Vikrant Gupta cut him..he tried to say that again but again he wasnt allowed to speak..

it seems to me Arshdeep has potential to crank upto 145kph esp in T20s…but he will need more confidence and feeling of settlement in side..

Edited August 30, 2022 by Need4Speed

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

I was watching the Aaj tak post match video where they Were also talking to Arshdeep’s coach..who was trying to say something like you will see his pace is going to increase..but stupid Vikrant Gupta cut him..he tried to say that again but again he wasnt allowed to speak..

it seems to me Arshdeep has potential to crank upto 145kph esp in T20s…but he will need more confidence and feeling of settlement in side..

Absolutely, pace is for some reason isn't encouraged enough in India, not sure what's the rationale behind it but even our commentators and experts don't talk about it often.

 

Arshdeep is skillful, despite in his early days he has shown the control and he will only get better once he up his pace. If he can maintain 135-142 range in T20's and ODI's then I will be fine with it.

 

[Mosher]

Avesh 146 but right in the slot and smashed. He should try some bouncers against these HK batsman.