Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Nikhil_cric]

49 minutes ago, express bowling said:

You are right, losing pace used to happen in the 2000s decade.

 

Munaf, RP and Sreesanth lost pace 

 

In the 2010s this has stopped. There is a lot of stress on stamina building and bowling at high pace throughout the day. Umesh and Aaron retain pace, after 5 years. Shami and Bhuvi have increased their pace. Even Ishant has become more consistemt in terms of pace. 

 

The most heartening part is that Umesh, Shami and Ishant are bowling quick even in the last spell of the day in test matches.

 

I think it has a lot to do with development of fast bowling culture in our country this decade.

True we seem to have reversed the trend recently. Touch wood. Especially impressive has been bhuvaneshwar who has actually increased his pace and is no longer a bowler who just floats up at 80 mph and was cannon fodder without swing on offer.

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Waqar bowled quick till 93 and after that lost his pace. He made his debut in Nov 89, so thats about 3 yrs of pace. Wasim, if he did bowl express, bowled it in patches. He was never consistently quick. And no, Wasim wasnt clocking high speeds in 97-98. Not if you are trying to say 90mph, he wasnt at all. 

The Indian bowlers who you state not only lost their pace, they also lost their quality of bowling. So its clearly a lack of motivation. Munaf was the only genuinely quick bowler who lost his pace and its clear that he was happy with whatever he achieved in life. 

 

So this is a big misconception created that only Indian bowlers loose pace. It happens to almost all. 

There were no speed guns back in 97/98 season for any of the tests he played but there were a couple of YouTube videos of the 1997/98 West Indies tour of Pakistan and Wasim was quite rapid. I'd say he did bowl 90 mph in some of those spells. Only the year after did Wasim look noticeably slower.

[Nikhil_cric]

31 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I honestly think that loosing pace hasnt been exclusive to Indians.

Nobody claimed it was . But at one point I think we produced more bowlers who did lose pace at an alarming rate. I've seen many an English bowler lose pace as well. They are not very good at nurturing genuine quicks either.

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Nobody claimed it was . But at one point I think we produced more bowlers who did lose pace at an alarming rate. I've seen many an English bowler lose pace as well. They are not very good at nurturing genuine quicks either.

 

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

There were no speed guns back in 97/98 season for any of the tests he played but there were a couple of YouTube videos of the 1997/98 West Indies tour of Pakistan and Wasim was quite rapid. I'd say he did bowl 90 mph in some of those spells. Only the year after did Wasim look noticeably slower.

Waqar wasnt bowling express after 93. He must have been sharp, but not express. I believe he clocked 152 in 96, but thats a one off. In the 96 match against India, in WC, he wasnt bowling 145. He was bowling more around 135-140 max. 

Wasim looked rapid because of his action and the bounce.He would still look rapid if you didnt see the speed gun. Srinath always looked slower even when bowling express.

Allan Mullaly looked rapid, but he was only a 125-130 bowler at his quickest. Debashish Mohanty used to look quite rapid because of his action. He also was just a 125-130 bowler.

[express bowling]

10 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I honestly think that loosing pace hasnt been exclusive to Indians.

Absolutely.

 

Almost all pacers of every country lost pace after bowling for 5 or 6 years.... till the year 2008 or thereabouts. 

 

Improved stamina training and retaining pace till 34 years of age or thereabouts, is a phenomenon observed only in the last 9 or 10 years all over the world. Before that, there were  only stray cases.

Edited May 20, 2017 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

Absolutely.

 

Almost all pacers of every country lost pace after bowling for 5 or 6 years.... till the year 2008 or thereabouts. 

 

Improved stamina training and retaining pace till 34 years of age or thereabouts, is a phenomenon observed in the last 9 or 10 years.

Some credit also must be given to IPL

were our young pacers got to interact with many gr8 bowlers as co player or coaches which helped them understand about fast bowling n fitness in better way.

It was an opp like never before were they could learn from the gr8s  Mcgrath, wasim, steyn,pollock for a period of 40-50 days. 

[Vilander]

On 19/05/2017 at 11:26 PM, Nikhil_cric said:

Not so much an insult.  But a lot of our bowlers tend to lose pace far too quickly. Umesh was the first one who started off as a genuine speedster and still bowls quick. 

Boss for all I care you might be an other pakistani. Totally dint care what pak bowlers did or what the two Ws did with bottle caps and nails and got wickets. Wasim was not an out and out quick and Srinath was faster that Waqar without ever been called quick. So in all its just a perception that Indian fast bowlers are not fast even sreesanth was pretty quick. I have seen whole overs at 149 

from him and present Indian test bowling lineup is one of the fastest in the world. So try to keep your cliches and type casting biases in control or enjoy them in private. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Vilander

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

Boss for all I care you might be an other pakistani. Totally dint care what pak bowlers did or what the two Ws did with bottle caps and nails and got wickets. Wasim was not an out and out quick and Srinath was faster that Waqar without ever been called quick. So in all its just a perception that Indian fast bowlers are not fast even sreesanth was pretty quick. I have seen whole overs at 149 

from him and present Indian test bowling lineup is one of the fastest in the world. So try to keep your cliches and type casting biases in control or enjoy them in private. 

As expected a very fierce and aggressive reply from @Vilander :P   Excellent points made about Sreesanth. Yes, I have also seen him bowling around 149's.  

The thing about Indian bowlers loosing pace is, nobody notices the no of pacers who increased their pace. When RP Singh came into picture, he was a 135-138 bowler. in about 2 years time, his pace went upto 148-149 and he maintained it for about 1-2 years. The same was true for Sreesanth. He started off at 135ish and then increased his pace to high 140's. I think he was clocked at 150 on a few occassions. And now, even Bhuvi has increased his pace and can crank it upto 145 at times. 

 

I think we are just playing into the hype when we say Indian bowlers loose pace. We need to see things in correct perspective.

[Rightarmfast]

36 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

the reason pace went down was because they didnt work on their fitness over a longer period of time ,rp munaf pk were all pretty mediocre in that aspect,these days they work lot better on their fitness ,even sangwans pace has gone up ,there are so many who can bowl 140 k these days ,when i used to watch as a kid there were only 2 or 3 for the ind team.

Also the bowlers who people talk about are Munaf mostly. Irfan, Munaf, Sreesanth and a few others like them were not focussed individuals on their career. Irfan was, but he just got messed up. These bowlers messed up their careers too, so expecting them to not mess up their pace would be over the top.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

As expected a very fierce and aggressive reply from @Vilander :P   Excellent points made about Sreesanth. Yes, I have also seen him bowling around 149's.  

The thing about Indian bowlers loosing pace is, nobody notices the no of pacers who increased their pace. When RP Singh came into picture, he was a 135-138 bowler. in about 2 years time, his pace went upto 148-149 and he maintained it for about 1-2 years. The same was true for Sreesanth. He started off at 135ish and then increased his pace to high 140's. I think he was clocked at 150 on a few occassions. And now, even Bhuvi has increased his pace and can crank it upto 145 at times. 

 

I think we are just playing into the hype when we say Indian bowlers loose pace. We need to see things in correct perspective.

RP was actually 125-130KPH when he made his debut in 2006 against ZIm.

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Also the bowlers who people talk about are Munaf mostly. Irfan, Munaf, Sreesanth and a few others like them were not focussed individuals on their career. Irfan was, but he just got messed up. These bowlers messed up their careers too, so expecting them to not mess up their pace would be over the top.

Irfan was anyway never a quick bowler. He started as  a 130KPh bowler.

[Rightarmfast]

37 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

RP was actually 125-130KPH when he made his debut in 2006 against ZIm.

Exactly, and then he gained pace. if you remember, he was bowling around 148-149ish on a regular basis.

[CG]

Exactly, and then he gained pace. if you remember, he was bowling around 148-149ish on a regular basis.

No that were few t20s and few ODIs against Australia.At test level he was 130-140ks with swing he was an asset buy sadly both sree and r.p were not focused on cricket.

[Nikhil_cric]

4 hours ago, Vilander said:

Boss for all I care you might be an other pakistani. Totally dint care what pak bowlers did or what the two Ws did with bottle caps and nails and got wickets. Wasim was not an out and out quick and Srinath was faster that Waqar without ever been called quick. So in all its just a perception that Indian fast bowlers are not fast even sreesanth was pretty quick. I have seen whole overs at 149 

from him and present Indian test bowling lineup is one of the fastest in the world. So try to keep your cliches and type casting biases in control or enjoy them in private. 

Yep, I'm Pakistani. There is no getting past your sixth sense O light of a thousand suns. :) And lmao Sreesanth bowled entire overs at 149ks? The odd delivery maybe. The current Indian fast bowling attack in tests is second only to OZ in terms of pace. That I can agree with. 

[Nikhil_cric]

32 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Exactly, and then he gained pace. if you remember, he was bowling around 148-149ish on a regular basis.

I don't remember him bowling 148-149 consistently . But he could effortlessly bowl in the 140's and generate late swing as well especially in the inaugural T20 World Cup. Should have become the leader of our LOI attack but alas!

[Rightarmfast]

Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

I don't remember him bowling 148-149 consistently . But he could effortlessly bowl in the 140's and generate late swing as well especially in the inaugural T20 World Cup. Should have become the leader of our LOI attack but alas!

He did bowl around 148-149 on a regular basis, I remember that. For some reason, the commentators or people never noticed that and never spoke about that.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

rp debuted in 2005 i remember his 1st odi match vs sl ,in his 1st spell he touched around 140,but after 2008 ipl he slowly fell away probably became satisfied with what ever money he got from ipl

His debut was against zim in 2005.

Edited May 22, 2017 by rkt.india

[Nikhil_cric]

53 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

He did bowl around 148-149 on a regular basis, I remember that. For some reason, the commentators or people never noticed that and never spoke about that.

Which match/series was this? 

[Ankit_sharma03]

43 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

i think in 2007 sreesanth was bowling 140+ consistently  in the odi series vs aus ,pak then tri series in aus but he also got some shoulder problems at that time and never quite recovered properly

Also there was a slight change in his action

His front arm use to drop very quickly n the action wasnt getting completed, Akram pointed this out a lot maybe in 2011 eng tour that due to its he loosing some yards . 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

irfan was a bit weird ,he just fell away but he used to try to improve ,maybe due to his grip ,but the main problem was the lack of culture ,it is a bit like fielding when no one dived but now even ashwin dives .

He changed his action a lot, in btw he became an open chested bowler in 2005 pak tour of India. 

And the as injuries happen and as u get old u need work more harder, IPL came in RP, Munaf, irfan became more lazy and it was evident from their fitness levels. Irfan was one guy who if fit n in some form wud have walked into indian team easily.....the guy had no competition