Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[rkt.india]

38 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Read somewhere Robin mentioning it's a rare metabolic disease and you have to be on treadmill everyday

Yes. He probably has thyroid issues like me.

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Isn't it visible. It is a widely known fact. I am following shardul since his Ranji debut. He used be quite bulkier than now, bowl 127-133, was found in a Pace hunt. He then later worked on losing weight. He did lose 10 plus kilo but still was not up to the mark visibly. Not lean enough to be a fast bowler. He has the kind of body where he gains weight quickly like Robin Uthappa also had same issue or like me if i stray from diet, too gain quickly even if i am working out.

Could be true. May have been true earlier but at this point in time,he is fit. Doesnt have extra ounce but he may have the tendency to gain weight. 

 

[Rightarmfast]

7 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

Tinu yohannan . Just shows how crap our seamers were . First time I saw him play was so exited thinking might have someone Bowl 84 mph . Literally we were like thirsty man in a desert seeing a puddle 

 

this is why we admired pak pacers and they laughed at us . No wonder they mentally cant cope with us having faster and better bowlers now , not just one or 2 but in many numbers 

Do you remember Thiru Kumaran? It was stated that he was quick, instead was a damp squib. People still say David Johnson was fast, but I am sure he wasnt.

 

The guys who did not get credit though got to be Atul Wassan and Salil Ankola. Wassan, I am pretty sure was a 140-145 bowler atleast.

[MCcricket]

3 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Do you remember Thiru Kumaran? It was stated that he was quick, instead was a damp squib. People still say David Johnson was fast, but I am sure he wasnt.

 

The guys who did not get credit though got to be Atul Wassan and Salil Ankola. Wassan, I am pretty sure was a 140-145 bowler atleast.

Kuruvilla was quick but wasnt picked up for ages despite taking tons of wkts n was picmed up when he was old n worn oug, Wassan was best fast medium n same with Bhandari, Ankola had some promise but pacers were not supported in those days.

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Could be true. May have been true earlier but at this point in time,he is fit. Doesnt have extra ounce but he may have the tendency to gain weight. 

 

And he lacks stamina which is evident in domestic cricket as he loses steam.

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, Vijy said:

yes, yohannan had a great physique and looked like he should be bowling in high 80s (mph) and not a trundler. instead, he came along and trundled away merrily.

Before him there was kuruvilla he was like a mountain super tall but he trundled too.  But he was good in one series but there was no Srinath in that one. 

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, MCcricket said:

Kuruvilla was quick but wasnt picked up for ages despite taking tons of wkts n was picmed up when he was old n worn oug, Wassan was best fast medium n same with Bhandari, Ankola had some promise but pacers were not supported in those days.

Amit Bhandari was a genuine 137- to a max of 145k's guy. Wassan was sharp, he was faster than Bhandari. Most probably as fast as Srinath.

[MCcricket]

10 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Amit Bhandari was a genuine 137- to a max of 145k's guy. Wassan was sharp, he was faster than Bhandari. Most probably as fast as Srinath.

Ive seen them bowl n thats what i felt n so did the commentators then, other then Srinath in the past i have not seen anyone bowl fast for India, Wassan was fast medium at best, n Bhandari on recorded game was about 135 k, then he worked hard to up his pace was never picked up again

[express bowling]

Ankola bowled with genuine pace in 1989 and 1990 ... he had a recurring foot problem, was advised to cut down his run-up and lost some pace after that.  Settled down to a bouncy fast-medium from 9991 before the film bug bit him.

[MCcricket]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Ankola bowled with genuine pace in 1989 and 1990 ... he had a recurring foot problem, was advised to cut down his run-up and lost some pace after that.  Settled down to a bouncy fast-medium from 9991 before the film bug bit him.

There was one Prashant Vaidya who was touted as fast but was uninmpressive.Ankola bowled a heavy ball with a good action, there was potential but had a history of shin injuries as i remember, Indian selectors n captain until now were very reckless n biased against fast bowlers only exception Saurav n Borde

[MCcricket]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Ankola bowled with genuine pace in 1989 and 1990 ... he had a recurring foot problem, was advised to cut down his run-up and lost some pace after that.  Settled down to a bouncy fast-medium from 9991 before the film bug bit him.

There was one Prashant Vaidya who was touted as fast but was uninmpressive.Ankola bowled a heavy ball with a good action, there was potential but had a history of shin injuries as i remember, Indian selectors n captain until now were very reckless n biased against fast bowlers only exception Saurav n Borde

[Mosher]

25 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Ankola bowled with genuine pace in 1989 and 1990 ... he had a recurring foot problem, was advised to cut down his run-up and lost some pace after that.  Settled down to a bouncy fast-medium from 9991 before the film bug bit him.

Yeah Ankola was quite quick in his early days. This game was later on in his international career but he was still hurrying on to the batsman. 

 

 

[express bowling]

My impressions about the pace of the earlier batch of " pace foundation developed Indian pace bowlers " ,  starting  1989

 

Rajdan - Fast-medium ( tall ) 

Ankola    Fast   for 2 years   ... then Fast-medium   ( tall )

Wassan -  Fast-medium  ( tall )

Srinath -  Fast ...  express from 1995 to 97 ...  Fast  ( very tall )

Subroto - medium  ( medium height )

Prasad - Medium  ( very tall )

Vaidya - Medium-fast  ( very tall )

Kuruvilla - Medium fast when he played in 1997 ... was perhaps Fast-medium around 1990  ( very tall )

Zaidi -  Was said to be skiddy quick by batters who faced him, never played for India   ( tall )

Mhambrey - Medium-fast  ( medium height )

Ganesh - Medium  ( very tall )

Johnson - Fast-medium  ( short )

Harvinder - Fast-medium  ( medium height  )

Mohanty - Medium  ( tall )

 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by express bowling

[MCcricket]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

My impressions about the pace of the earlier batch of " pace foundation developed Indian pace bowlers " ,  starting  1989

 

Rajdan - Fast-medium ( tall ) 

Ankola    Fast   for 2 years   ... then Fast-medium   ( tall )

Wassan -  Fast-medium  ( tall )

Srinath -  Fast ...  express from 1995 to 97 ...  Fast  ( very tall )

Prasad - Medium  ( very tall )

Vaidya - Medium-fast  ( very tall )

Kuruvilla - Medium fast when he played in 1997 ... was perhaps Fast-medium around 1990  ( very tall )

Zaidi -  Was said to be skiddy quick by batters who faced him, never played for India   ( tall )

Mhambrey - Medium-fast  ( medium height )

Ganesh - Medium  ( very tall )

Johnson - Fast-medium  ( short )

Harvinder - Fast-medium  ( short )

Mohanty - Medium  ( tall )

 

 

Seems right

[Vk1]

51 minutes ago, express bowling said:

My impressions about the pace of the earlier batch of " pace foundation developed Indian pace bowlers " ,  starting  1989

 

Rajdan - Fast-medium ( tall ) 

Ankola    Fast   for 2 years   ... then Fast-medium   ( tall )

Wassan -  Fast-medium  ( tall )

Srinath -  Fast ...  express from 1995 to 97 ...  Fast  ( very tall )

Prasad - Medium  ( very tall )

Vaidya - Medium-fast  ( very tall )

Kuruvilla - Medium fast when he played in 1997 ... was perhaps Fast-medium around 1990  ( very tall )

Zaidi -  Was said to be skiddy quick by batters who faced him, never played for India   ( tall )

Mhambrey - Medium-fast  ( medium height )

Ganesh - Medium  ( very tall )

Johnson - Fast-medium  ( short )

Harvinder - Fast-medium  ( short )

Mohanty - Medium  ( tall )

 

 

Harvinder? I remember the Sahara cup matches.. seems more like Robin Singh type?

[speedheat]

Shed some more light on ashish zaidi please, anyone?? So far I have only heard about him, have heard that he was  genuinely fast and toured with u19 team in pak 1989, according to some he bowled as quick as waquar, but never played for India, how quick he was??

[express bowling]

52 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Harvinder? I remember the Sahara cup matches.. seems more like Robin Singh type?

 

Harvinder had pace and hit the deck hard.  Srinath once said that he liked Harvinder as he had pace.

 

Watch him bowl on a slow and low pitch below against Australia ....  hurries Slater very first ball  ...  watch the rising delivery from 12.50

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by express bowling

[express bowling]

42 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Shed some more light on ashish zaidi please, anyone?? So far I have only heard about him, have heard that he was  genuinely fast and toured with u19 team in pak 1989, according to some he bowled as quick as waquar, but never played for India, how quick he was??

 

All that is true.  Zaidi was a skiddy fast bowler who could swing the ball.  Was said to be really quick ....  but we don't know about his exact pace as he never played for India.

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

My impressions about the pace of the earlier batch of " pace foundation developed Indian pace bowlers " ,  starting  1989

 

Rajdan - Fast-medium ( tall ) 

Ankola    Fast   for 2 years   ... then Fast-medium   ( tall )

Wassan -  Fast-medium  ( tall )

Srinath -  Fast ...  express from 1995 to 97 ...  Fast  ( very tall )

Prasad - Medium  ( very tall )

Vaidya - Medium-fast  ( very tall )

Kuruvilla - Medium fast when he played in 1997 ... was perhaps Fast-medium around 1990  ( very tall )

Zaidi -  Was said to be skiddy quick by batters who faced him, never played for India   ( tall )

Mhambrey - Medium-fast  ( medium height )

Ganesh - Medium  ( very tall )

Johnson - Fast-medium  ( short )

Harvinder - Fast-medium  ( short )

Mohanty - Medium  ( tall )

 

 

Wassan was faster than Ankola. Wassan performed quite well in NZ tour,however BCCI never helped him financially when he was injured and hence he had to bid adieu forever!

 

Zaidi was quite quick. Cant say if he was as quick as Waqar. What I can say for sure is, during 1989 tour of Pakistan, Salil Ankola safely would have been 2nd or 3rd fastest bowler from the 2 teams. He would have been close to Wasim Akrams pace if not quicker.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

 Wassan performed quite well in NZ tour,however BCCI never helped him financially when he was injured and hence he had to bid adieu forever!

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/766861.html

 

 

You are right.  Atul Wassan interview above, talking about some of the things you said regarding injury management and pacer management.

 

We hear him raising many valid points and he generally comes across as a sensible guy.

 

We also hear  him talking about some steretypical beliefs, which have stopped us from having a pool of fast bowlers till 2015.  Wassan talks about Australians Saffers and Pakistanis having better genetics than us.  He talks about them having better strength and sustainability. 

 

This is the part that I don't agree with.  Pacers from all countries have issues with sustainability. We have seen Pattinson, Cummins, Starc and Johnson break down very frequently.  Same with Steyn. Usman Khan got injured after a couple of games.  Shoaib, Zahid,  Irfan were all very injury prone.  Ngidi dropped pace after just 1 match.  Morkel bowling much slower these days. Amir can't bowl quick in tests ...  and I could go on and on.    The secret is to have a larger pool of fast bowlers.  This means proper replacements for the injured fast bowlers and competition forcing the injured quicks to not drop pace.

 

Regarding strength ...  Indians have done well in many such sports like weight-lifting, wrestling etc.   Moreover,  strength is just one of the many qualities needed for bowling fast.  Flexibility, fast-twitch muscles, good bio-mechanics in bowling action. hyper-extension, etc. play a big part too.

 

We have shed all these inhibitions now ... and are producing fast bowlers by the dozen.  Speed-guns are showing that Indians are bowling as quick or quicker than most pacers of these known-for-pace countries.

 

 

 

Quote

Zaidi was quite quick. Cant say if he was as quick as Waqar. What I can say for sure is, during 1989 tour of Pakistan, Salil Ankola safely would have been 2nd or 3rd fastest bowler from the 2 teams. He would have been close to Wasim Akrams pace if not quicker.

Yes.

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by express bowling