Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[vishalvirsingh]

15 hours ago, Sandz said:

For me trundler cut off is at 137k, anyone above that is not a trundler, If he can maintain an average above that he will have a great career. And am sure he can add a few yards of pace via strength conditioning 

for me trundler cut off is 136K....above that is medium fast till 143K and above 143k to 148K - Genuine fast and above 148K - Super fast like lightening.

 

Shammi has bowled till 144k -145K , even Hardik and Sardara arshdeep is continuously hitting 141-142K and may have touched 144k too...with his accuracy and the cross bowling he bowls - he is a great find. He is difficult to handle at the end ....

Point i want to make is -

BHuvi bowling 131 to 139K- he has also gone beyond trundling in T20 world cup.

Hardik has bowled bouncers @142-145K ,regularly between 136 to 145K....he has hit batsman on the helmet , not just asian batsman but sfrican batsman too

arsh- regularly at 141K and between 132 to 144K- mostly above 137k

Shammi has been 133 to 144K 

 

Secret of Pace success is that harshal has not played and all 4 have bowled medium fast and sometimes genuine fast ( above 143K)

 

[express bowling]

45 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Apart from these 5 we have Tyagi, Mohsin, Rajvardhan as the tall pacers...total 8 of them. Simarjeet is also medium height, while Bawa is short.

 

 

Tall pacers ....

 

Fast ...

 

Tyagi

Sen

Prasidh

Mohsin

 

 

Fast-medium .... 

 

Dayal

Arshdeep ( fast medium at the death, medium pace early on ) 

Khaleel

Avesh

 

8 in all 

 

Is Hangargekar tall  ?  (  6'2" or more ). But he is surely very bouncy.

 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Need4Speed said:

Though..yet to prove..but How about grooming Raj Bawa,Hangarekar too..they look to have good potential..I am also interested to see how Sabir khan bowls in IPL

 

Bawa and Hangargekar will be / should be groomed.

 

But they will fall in the allrounder category 

[express bowling]

33 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

for me trundler cut off is 136K....above that is medium fast till 143K and above 143k to 148K - Genuine fast and above 148K - Super fast like lightening.

 

Shammi has bowled till 144k -145K , even Hardik and Sardara arshdeep is continuously hitting 141-142K and may have touched 144k too...with his accuracy and the cross bowling he bowls - he is a great find. He is difficult to handle at the end ....

Point i want to make is -

BHuvi bowling 131 to 139K- he has also gone beyond trundling in T20 world cup.

Hardik has bowled bouncers @142-145K ,regularly between 136 to 145K....he has hit batsman on the helmet , not just asian batsman but sfrican batsman too

arsh- regularly at 141K and between 132 to 144K- mostly above 137k

Shammi has been 133 to 144K 

 

Secret of Pace success is that harshal has not played and all 4 have bowled medium fast and sometimes genuine fast ( above 143K)

 

 

 

Bhuvi has been 124 k to 138 k. Accurate but totally swing dependent. And bowled shorter than ideal for a slow swing bowler. Captain is unable to trust him at the death. 

 

Arshdeep has bowled 127 k to 137 k with the new ball. If swing is there then he has looked magical upfront .. looked innocuous with the new ball if no swing  

 

But Arshdeep has bowled 137 k to 142 k at the death and looked good. Bowled a good bouncer too. Middle phase bowling not that good as he can't hit thd deck hard with length balls.

 

Shami has bowled length balls at 135 k to 144 k. Bowled really well.  But very few bouncers thereby not taking advantage of such bouncy pitches. 

 

Hardik has bowled 135 k to 145 k with steep bounce and has done really well for a batting allrounder.

 

[singhvivek141]

53 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Rajvardhan is shorter than Simarjeet who is 6 feet.

Google shows different data at different sites, at some places Simarjeet is mentioned 5.6 

[Rightarmfast]

Boss, ye trundler aur express pace wali conversation bahot dicey hoti hai. Bhuvi, even if he bowls at 142 will seem easy to batsmen. Shami, even if he bowls 135, will look sharp to batsmen. Lots of dynamics involved. 

But anyway, I think anything above 134- 135ish is fast medium. 

[singhvivek141]

24 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Is Hangargekar tall  ?  (  6'2" or more ). But he is surely very bouncy.

I think he's around 6.1, but rkt says otherwise.
Google search also shows height in 5.11-6 range....but he's strong lad and his action help him to generate superb bounce of good length.
His full deliveries looks a bit slower and floaty like Saini, hope that's an abberation and not normalcy.

 

[rkt.india]

33 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Tall pacers ....

 

Fast ...

 

Tyagi

Sen

Prasidh

Mohsin

 

 

Fast-medium .... 

 

Dayal

Arshdeep ( fast medium at the death, medium pace early on ) 

Khaleel

Avesh

 

8 in all 

 

Is Hangargekar tall  ?  (  6'2" or more ). But he is surely very bouncy.

 

 

Hangargekar at best is 5'10-11

[rkt.india]

11 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Google shows different data at different sites, at some places Simarjeet is mentioned 5.6 

 

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

 

 

Who is the guy on the right next to Porel ?

[Need4Speed]

Unfortunately pace after bounce or when it reaches the batsmen..that data is not prominently available..else that will give more idea about trundler cutoff..

as 140kph of some bowler will reach at 123kph to the batsmen and 136kph of another bowler may reach at 124kph..

additionally depending upon pace of the deck..this cutoff can be increased/decreased..

moreover..I feel for hit the deck,bounce,good height bowler..the cutoff can be reduced..as they will still trouble the batter at little less pace

Edited November 3, 2022 by Need4Speed

[express bowling]

46 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Unfortunately pace after bounce or when it reaches the batsmen..that data is not prominently available..else that will give more idea about trundler cutoff..

as 140kph of some bowler will reach at 123kph to the batsmen and 136kph of another bowler may reach at 124kph..

additionally depending upon pace of the deck..this cutoff can be increased/decreased..

moreover..I feel for hit the deck,bounce,good height bowler..the cutoff can be reduced..as they will still trouble the bowler at little less pace

 

 

Very true.  Skiddy pacers or bouncy pacers can be effective at slightly lesser release speeds.

 

But I think the reduction in speeds is a little more on reaching the batter.  In the 15 kph to 35 kph range depending on the surface, the seam position of the bowler, wind speed, release distance etc.

 

In fact, if a standard pacer, releasing the ball at 140 k reaches the batter at 115 k and a skiddy pacer releasing the ball at 135 k reaches the batter at 115 k ... this 2nd pacer will feel quicker to the batsman due to the deception factor.

 

Nowadays, it has become all about release speeds but there is so much more to consistently hurrying and frightening the batters than just high release speeds. 

 

Someone like a Bumrah, who releases the ball well past the bowling crease and has hyperextension, feels much quicker to the batter than other 145 k pacers like him.

Edited November 3, 2022 by express bowling

[Mesky99]

28 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Who is the guy on the right next to Porel ?

Sai Kishore, he's around 6'3, tallest spinner after Nilesh Kulkarni, spinner from South India always tend to be tall.

[Need4Speed]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Very true.  Skiddy pacers or bouncy pacers can be effective at slightly lesser release speeds.

 

But I think the reduction in speeds is a little more on reaching the batter.  In the 15 kph to 35 kph range depending on the surface, the seam position of the bowler, wind speed, release distance etc.

 

In fact, if a standard pacer, releasing the ball at 140 k reaches the batter at 115 k and a skiddy pacer releasing the ball at 135 k reaches the batter at 115 k ... this 2nd pacer will feel quicker to the batsman due to the deception factor.

 

Now, it has become all about release speeds but there is so much more to hurrying and frightening the batters than just high release speeds. 

 

Someone like a Bumrah, who releases the ball well past the bowling crease and has hyperextension, feels much quicker to the batter than other 145 k pacers like him.

Oh yes..Very well explained..yes these many factors highlight the fact that if you are a trundler in terms of just pace of the hand..then  you need some additional weapons in your armory to be effective..

and no..slow balls for trundler is not one of them..

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

Sai Kishore, he's around 6'3, tallest spinner after Nilesh Kulkarni, spinner from South India always tend to be tall.

 

 

Why is it in India that we have so many tall spinners and batters and so many short pacers !!

 

In most countries the " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team " ratio is significantly more than 1.

 

India has the lowest  " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team " ratio.

Edited November 3, 2022 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

25 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Sai Kishore, he's around 6'3, tallest spinner after Nilesh Kulkarni, spinner from South India always tend to be tall.

He is probably 6'4. Porel and arshdeep are 6'3

[Need4Speed]

47 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Why is it in India that we have so many tall spinners and batters and so many short pacers !!

 

In most countries the " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team" ratio is significantly more than 1.

 

India has the lowest  " Height of pacers to height of the rest of the team" ratio.

May be they just have longer lega and not so athletic required for pace bowling rythm/runup..just a wild guess

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

May be they just have longer lega and not so athletic required for pace bowling rythm/runup..just a wild guess

 

We were picking tall pacers from 1989 to 2008.

 

Chronologically from 1989 to 2008

 

Tall .....

 

Ankola 

Wassan 

Srinath

Prasad

Vaidya

Kuruvilla

Ganesh 

Nehra

Munaf

VRV 

Sudip Tyagi

RP Singh

Ishant

 

 

Almost tall  ....

 

Razdan

Mohanty

Zaheer

Balaji

Irfan 

 

 

Then it all changed

 

Umesh, Aaron, Bhuvi, Shami, Mohit Sharma, Bumrah, Shardul, Deepak C, Siraj, Harshal, Umran  all 5'8" to 6'0". 

 

6'6" Pankaj Singh hardly played. 6'2" Ishwar Pandey or 6'3" Ankit Rajpoot did not get any chances as swing bowlers. 

 

[Need4Speed]

12 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Shadab,Afridi Pak always produce legspin all rounders.

One needs to be mentally strong and agressive..that helps..

I dont see most of our bowlers are like that..

[Vk1]

though its  harsh on the player, I feel that match ka mujrim/negative outlier kind of metric has to be captured in T20s.. and see which player is repeatedly coming into that bucket..  ( Rahane in 2016 SF and Y Chahal in 2019 SF kind of performances.. I don't know about stats but Bhuvi must be there for sure in this list.. avg batting strikerate is 135 and one player eats balls and has SR of 110.. bowling rpo of 7 and one guy goes at 10+ rpo )

Edited November 3, 2022 by Vk1