sensible-indian Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 ATG rankings are pretty simple. If world over, you are considered ATG, then you are ATG. If not, then not. SRT, Gavaskar, Dravid are considered ATGs all over the world. Sehwag isn't. Laxman isn't considered ATG too but holds a special place with Martyn for being super clutch.
Marut Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 One of the best openers ever. Not technically, but in terms of the overall impact he created. Yeah, he may not walk into an All time Test XI and may struggle to compete with the likes of Gavaskar or Greenidge in terms of technical purity. But he won more matches for India with his batting than the likes of Gavaskar. When any team played with India a Sehwag hundred was the thing they feared worst. Not the hundreds of any other Indian player. Sehwag could turn a match on its head in a matter of a session or two - a characteristic generally attributed only to bowlers in test matches. Sehwag has the highest strike rates in the history of the game @ 82. He is closely followed by Gilly at 81 and Kapil at 81. The extent of Kapil Dev's ability can be judged from the fact that Kapil was a player of the 80s when the average test batting strike rate was around 40. Among test openers, Sehwag is way ahead of the rest of the pack, only Warner coming even close but Warner has played only 30% of Sehwag at this time. So called aggressive players like Gayle, Hayden, Jayasuriya and Smith have S/R around 60-65!! Sehwag is the most naturally gifted stroke maker (next only to Richards) in the history of the game.
sage Posted March 30, 2015 Author Posted March 30, 2015 Just a bit more consistent version of Afridi... Lowest avgs vs Aus, SA etc Top avgs vs BD, NZ & at dead wickets etc Ridiculous comparison
sage Posted March 30, 2015 Author Posted March 30, 2015 An average of 49 compared to 36, despite being top-order is not "just a bit". Pakistanis have no players that can compare with him
kosingh Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 In terms of greatness as a cricketer (not in terms as similarity in style) he would be in the same league Mark Waugh, Martin Crowe, Arvinda de Silva etc
Marut Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Just a bit more consistent version of Afridi... Lowest avgs vs Aus, SA etc Top avgs vs BD, NZ & at dead wickets etc LOL Actually Sehwag did not average high in Bang and NZ. He was excellent in SC, and very good in Australia and WI. He was average in SA and England. India has no Afridi like players. We don't tolerate that level of mediocrity. If Afridi had played for india, his fate would have been similar to players like Yusuf Pathan. We would have ditched him permanently after 50 odd chances and not allowed him to play in the team for 20 years nor allow him to enact innumerable unretirement dramas.
mishra Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Sewage does have a few x-factors to boost his case: 1. Astronomical strike rate at the top of the order. That cannot be overstated because not only is the highest strike rate guy for anyone who's scored any chunks of runs (say 40+ average through history), he is around 15-20 clear of the next best top order guy ever! Blasters in tests who've done really well, for e.g. Viv, Lara, Tendulkar in his youth, Ponting, generally were dominating attacks by going at 60-65 overall clip and their 'successful innings' having 70-75 strike rates. Veeru went at 80-85 range and his successful innings went at 90-110 strike rates. That is phenomenal. In tests the rammifications of run rates are less than in ODI cricket but when this level of phenomenal run rate is introduced (i.e., A Veeru 150 in 150 balls as opposed to a Lara 150 in 200 balls would give eight more overs in the game- all of a sudden, there is almost an hour extra to bowl the other guys out/account for weather/let fellow batsmen bat longer etc. connotations to it that cannot be overlooked. 2. He was a middle order bat! Batting in tests is of really three nature: openers, middle orders & tail enders. In tests, middle order bats generally do not adapt well to opening or being exposed to the new ball too soon very often. Please rectify your post
mishra Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 It will be very difficult to get noticed into ATG list when you are batting with alongside Sachin and Dravid. Top top top player. Definitely Asian ATG
adi B Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 an ATG player for me.there's more to just stats to fullfil the ATG criteria.sehwag was an impact player,changed the course of test matches on his own.he changed the way of opening in a test match,a strike rate of 82 is unheard of in test matches!! his record is avg-poor in only england,nzl and saf,elsewhere had a great record
express bowling Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Just a bit more consistent version of Afridi... Lowest avgs vs Aus, SA etc Top avgs vs BD, NZ & at dead wickets etc Sehwag averages 47 from 11 tests played in Australia. 2 centuries with a highest of 195. Against Pakistan ...he averages 91 from 9 tests...4 centuries...highest of 309. So...you would call this minnow basing now ? :cantstop: And you guys say that we are biased when we are not ga ga over some newbie Pakistan pacer ! :hysterical:
rtmohanlal Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 a flawed genius...a huge talent considerably damaged by the mismanagement of BCCI. what could have been turned into easily an ATG forced to make a border line ATG. That is Sehwag for me. Nothing proves this more than the fact that he scored a debut 100+ vs SAF in SAF in the middle order.then he was forced to open , a job he never did even in first class cricket. yet with his attacking style he has great figures in AUS & WI. In ENG too he was very good. but that 2011 midway arrival as some sort of messiah damaged his figures.In NZL too in his 2nd tour he could have easily made huge amount of runs. but his contempt for harmless spinners and eager ness to dominate them so early led to his down fall. So his 3 relative failures namely in SAF,NZL & ENG all happened to due to mismanagement of his huge talent by concerned authorities.Nothing more reflects this than the fact that his lone 100+ vs SAF came in his debut test there. in sub continent, no match... he is by far the best batsman . so all in all a borderline ATG. I personally feel, if he is played in middle order moving forward for 3 more years , 3 tours each to SAF, ENG & NZL can help to rectify his numbers there. he is only 35 now. 3 more years , if he is in some sort of form is a possibility. will the BCCI oblige?
Marut Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 a flawed genius...a huge talent considerably damaged by the mismanagement of BCCI. what could have been turned into easily an ATG forced to make a border line ATG. That is Sehwag for me. Nothing proves this more than the fact that he scored a debut 100+ vs SAF in SAF in the middle order.then he was forced to open , a job he never did even in first class cricket. yet with his attacking style he has great figures in AUS & WI. In ENG too he was very good. but that 2011 midway arrival as some sort of messiah damaged his figures.In NZL too in his 2nd tour he could have easily made huge amount of runs. but his contempt for harmless spinners and eager ness to dominate them so early led to his down fall. So his 3 relative failures namely in SAF,NZL & ENG all happened to due to mismanagement of his huge talent by concerned authorities.Nothing more reflects this than the fact that his lone 100+ vs SAF came in his debut test there. in sub continent, no match... he is by far the best batsman . so all in all a borderline ATG. I personally feel, if he is played in middle order moving forward for 3 more years , 3 tours each to SAF, ENG & NZL can help to rectify his numbers there. he is only 35 now. 3 more years , if he is in some sort of form is a possibility. will the BCCI oblige? Right arm pacers were the main problem for Sehwag outside the SC. Sehwag averages a healthy 48 against left arm pacers outside SC (excluding minnows). Averages just 22 against right arm pacers. Most common mode of dismissal was caught behind - it accounts for 50% of his dismissals outside SC. He was one of the batsmen with least number of bowled/LBWs outside the SC. Sehwag used to play at a lot of deliveries that ought to be left alone. This is the secret of his scoring rate as well as dismissals. Sehwag also got out to adventurous strokes several times. Sehwag could have been a 45@60 player outside SC instead he chose to be a 35@75 player. If Sehwag had made this adjustment while playing outside SC India would have won a lot more matches outside SC.
GrandMasterSaxy Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 We'd either be 100-0 in 10 or 0-2 in 0.2 overs. 100-0 would be more often I bet. 0-2 in 0.2 overs is highly unlikely, getting run out on the first ball of inning?
Marut Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 ATG rankings are pretty simple. If world over, you are considered ATG, then you are ATG. If not, then not. SRT, Gavaskar, Dravid are considered ATGs all over the world. Sehwag isn't. Laxman isn't considered ATG too but holds a special place with Martyn for being super clutch. Bradman won't be ATG under this criteria because 80% of the matches he played the same opponent. "World over" makes no sense for Bradman, because World was approx. equal to England for Bradman. But Bradman is considered ATG due to his unique number, namely 99.94! I think Sehwag needs to be considered ATG because he was unique too, his average and strike rate combo over a 100 test match reign is unmatched in history, especially for a test opener. Sehwag was two decades ahead of his peers. Sehwag like batting will become common place may be in 2025 or 2030. Most batsmen dream of batting like Sehwag and the best ones among them succeed in emulating Sehwag during their purple patches lasting an year or two. Sehwag maintained those insane stats for a decade! Four of the 15 fastest 200s were scored by Sehwag. No other batsman makes it into this list more than once. See attachment. ODI batsmen would be jealous of Sehwag's test match strike rates!
amiret Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Sehwag averaged 20 in NZ , 25 in SA and 27 in ENG in Tests.
vvvslaxman Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Sehwag averaged 20 in NZ , 25 in SA and 27 in ENG in Tests. In one of the NZ tour everyone failed on drop in pitches. Batting was very very hard for someone like Viru's style. In the next tour he missed out on freebie bowling by holing out in the deep. His game comes with certain risk. yOu can keep a third man and get him out. Inspite of all that in the one dayers where nobody crossed 50 in NZ, he made two centuries on the same drop in pitches. Statistics don't define Viru.
goose Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 The greatest compliment you can pay him was that it took a billion indians (not to mention a few commentators) more than a few knocks to separate Tendulkar from Sehwag when they partnered each other.
zep1706 Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Just a bit more consistent version of Afridi... Lowest avgs vs Aus, SA etc Top avgs vs BD, NZ & at dead wickets etc I am sorry for being rude, but only a dimwit Pakistani would compare Afridi and Sehwag. Sehwag has a test match average of 49+ with 80+ strike rate as an opener. He was one of a kind. No one in the history of the game has been that good. Yes he was not so successful in alien conditions but to compare him with a hack like Afridi is insane.
zep1706 Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Sehwag's only weakness was the moving ball. Due to his lack of footwork he was not a great player when there was a bit of lateral movement (which explains his poor average in SA, NZ and Eng). Other than that he was an insanely good batsman. It would be hard to find another batsman with a better hand eye coordination.
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