Pak VS India in terms of pace bowling

[Pak_cric]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

is this edge entirely based on the last game. For they are still a mediocre team, just got jihad josh and did well in a single final and caught the Indian team sleep walking. Wont happen again, and Ashwin wont bowl his pies on them again..

Yay to Bangladesh fan wala scene ho Gaya

[Asim]

Pak vs Ind standing among All team bowlers in Champions Trophy (min 5 overs)...

 

Most Wickets:

Hasan Ali #1

Junaid Khan #3

B Kumar #6

 

Best averages

Hasan Ali #1
Faheem Ashraf #5
Junaid Khan #6
Rumman Raees #9
KM Jadhav #10

 

Best economy rates

Hasan Ali #1
Mohammad Amir #5
Imad Wasim #6
Junaid Khan #8
B Kumar #9

 

Best strike rates
Faheem Ashraf #2
Hasan Ali  #3
KM Jadhav #8

 

What exactly the debate is about?

[Rasgulla]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

is this edge entirely based on the last game. For they are still a mediocre team, just got jihad josh and did well in a single final and caught the Indian team sleep walking. Wont happen again, and Ashwin wont bowl his pies on them again..

No not just last match... They drew Test series is England no shame in accepting they are better is certain areas..

[Rightarmfast]

6 hours ago, Asim said:

Pak vs Ind standing among All team bowlers in Champions Trophy (min 5 overs)...

 

Most Wickets:

Hasan Ali #1

Junaid Khan #3

B Kumar #6

 

Best averages

Hasan Ali #1
Faheem Ashraf #5
Junaid Khan #6
Rumman Raees #9
KM Jadhav #10

 

Best economy rates

Hasan Ali #1
Mohammad Amir #5
Imad Wasim #6
Junaid Khan #8
B Kumar #9

 

Best strike rates
Faheem Ashraf #2
Hasan Ali  #3
KM Jadhav #8

 

What exactly the debate is about?

Wow, one would almost take you to be brilliant if one were to draw conclusions from one ODI tournamet! But alas

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, Asim said:

Pak vs Ind standing among All team bowlers in Champions Trophy (min 5 overs)...

 

Most Wickets:

Hasan Ali #1

Junaid Khan #3

B Kumar #6

 

Best averages

Hasan Ali #1
Faheem Ashraf #5
Junaid Khan #6
Rumman Raees #9
KM Jadhav #10

 

Best economy rates

Hasan Ali #1
Mohammad Amir #5
Imad Wasim #6
Junaid Khan #8
B Kumar #9

 

Best strike rates
Faheem Ashraf #2
Hasan Ali  #3
KM Jadhav #8

 

What exactly the debate is about?

 

The debate is not just about the Champions Trophy but the careers of current Indian and Pakistani pacers....and their performances in the last 2 or 3 years both as individuals and as bowling units.

 

 

[Autonomous]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The debate is not just about the Champions Trophy but the careers of current Indian and Pakistani pacers....and their performances in the last 2 or 3 years both as individuals and as bowling units.

 

 

We had Rahat, Wahab.etc bowlibg for us. 

 

Need to get emerging bowlers like Hasan.

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

We had Rahat, Wahab.etc bowlibg for us. 

 

Need to get emerging bowlers like Hasan.

 

True.

[Vijy]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

True.

Right.

[Lannister]

I have to say I really bought into this hype of our bowlers before the start of CT, but after witnessing the limitations of Bumrah and Kumar, I should've expected this.   

[Vijy]

13 minutes ago, Lannister said:

I have to say I really bought into this hype of our bowlers before the start of CT, but after witnessing the limitations of Bumrah and Kumar, I should've expected this.   

The hype still continues though.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Shaz1 said:

Indians have gotten better. I do admit you guys have a better record than us. But going forward we have a better attack now.

 

 

Junaid has lost a lot of pace. Don't know whether he will do well in Asia.

 

Amir blows hot and cold. He seems to be disinterested in tests too and there was a talk of him quitting the longest format.

 

Hasan is very impressive so far.

 

We need to see your pace attack as a whole performing consistently for 6 months or more to form an informed opinion.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Junaid has lost a lot of pace. Don't know whether he will do well in Asia.

 

Amir blows hot and cold. He seems to be disinterested in tests too and there was a talk of him quitting the longest format.

 

Hasan is very impressive so far.

 

We need to see your pace attack as a whole performing consistently for 6 months or more to form an informed opinion.

Ali is very good - I expect him to do well in Tests too since he has the basics right and is not afraid to bowl "un-glamorously".

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Indians have gotten better. I do admit you guys have a better record than us. But going forward we have a better attack now.

 

 

I am not sure you have a better attack. You guys collectively raise your game in ICC games where teams are caught napping. But overall this attack is not a threatening attack like attack of the past. Pakistan's real test will be in the coming years leading upto world cup. Can they sustain that 4 match intensity in the coming years. I am not so sure about that. India has a solid bench strength. Also if they go forward with duke balls as they said Indian bowling will become far more formidable. 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Them napping is not our problem. Fact is our bowling did well through out the tournament. Restricted other teams for low total.

 

I do agree that we should wait 6 months before hyping this attack. So I will hold my opinion till than.

I believe Hasan Ali is an underrated bowler; hoping he will do well in Tests too.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Shaz1 said:

I agree. There were many times I forgot he was part of our attack. The thing is Amir and Junaid bowling together is just mouth watering. They both used to bowl together as partners before they became famious in international cricket. Junaid took the burden of being our spearhead when Amir was banned. So seeing them now bowling together is simply amazing. Thats nothing to take away from Hasan Ali who is showing he's in a better rhythem than the two.

Amir has been a bit inconsistent, esp in Tests. I think Junaid retains his skills, but seems to have lost a bit of pace because of injury. The one thing that Pak should not do is to bring in that useless Wahab Riaz into the team; Ali is at least 2-3 times more effective than him on current form

[RAZPOR]

On 7/1/2017 at 10:36 PM, Imtiaz said:

Was this suppose to make any sense?? 

Ask jason mohammed,he ll have an answer for you and this thread too

[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Wahab is utterly useless. This dude lived off the hype of that Shane Watson spell. 

 

Aside from Pakistan  can you explain to me about your upcoming bowling talent?

Not too much on the horizon. My personal picks are Siraj and Nathu Singh; latter is around 21 and quite raw but promising - left-arm, can swing the ball, and has good pace (140+). Others will mention likes of Thampi, etc. but these 2 names are more promising for me.

[Rightarmfast]

1 hour ago, Lannister said:

I have to say I really bought into this hype of our bowlers before the start of CT, but after witnessing the limitations of Bumrah and Kumar, I should've expected this.   

Bowlers do well when they perform together, not in isolation. That is the reason Kapil Dev doesnt have the kind of record Imran had, Javagal Srinath doesnt have the record Mcgrath has.

Similarly, our bowling unit does well when Shami and Umesh bowl together. Umesh gives the extra pace, Shami gives the tooth, Bhuvi and the other bowlers are allowed to bowl to their strength. This simple analogy was too tough for Virat Kohli to understand. He never played the perfect bowling combination, so I was never surprised at the result. Check my comments, and I had predicted Indians would choke in the final and it was precisely due to this reason.

Play Umesh and Shami together with Bhuvi and Bumrah as support bowlers and you will find that the attack seriously quality.

58 minutes ago, Vijy said:

The hype still continues though.

I kind of feel you havent observed much or havent studied cricket for a long time.

 

55 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Indians have gotten better. I do admit you guys have a better record than us. But going forward we have a better attack now.

 

 

who has seen the future?

 

52 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Your bowlers have improved. They are not trundlers they used to be. Very impressed with how Bhuvi turned out. The future is bright for you guys in bowling. Now what they need to do is come up with a personality to make bowling more famious in India. Like go do some unique celebrations.

Had you studied things honestly without bias you would have known that Indians have never been trundlers. There have been quick bowlers in almost all generations of Indian cricket, even during Kapil's time we had bowlers much quicker than him, even in 90's we had srinath and other bowlers, 2000's we had plenty bowlers bowliing close to 150.

Pakistan started producing genuine quick bowlers only after Waqar. Imran was fast medium, Wasim was mostly fast medium. Only after waqar you had Zahid who you claim to be genuine quick, and few other bowlers who were genuine quick. And then you had Shoaib. So not sure what you mean when you say Indians were trundlers. I agree that in 90's, you had more no of genuine quickies coming through than India, but it wasnt true pre 90's, and its not true anymore for sure!

[Lannister]

6 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Bowlers do well when they perform together, not in isolation. That is the reason Kapil Dev doesnt have the kind of record Imran had, Javagal Srinath doesnt have the record Mcgrath has.

Similarly, our bowling unit does well when Shami and Umesh bowl together. Umesh gives the extra pace, Shami gives the tooth, Bhuvi and the other bowlers are allowed to bowl to their strength. This simple analogy was too tough for Virat Kohli to understand. He never played the perfect bowling combination, so I was never surprised at the result. Check my comments, and I had predicted Indians would choke in the final and it was precisely due to this reason.

Play Umesh and Shami together with Bhuvi and Bumrah as support bowlers and you will find that the attack seriously quality.

Exactly. We erred in selecting the right kind of bowlers. But if we have learned one thing out of this, is that both Bumrah and Kumar are not wicket-taking options. 

[Rightarmfast]

6 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

I got a crystal ball what can I say? ;)

 

You know this is actually the first time I am hearing any of this about Indian bowling. You must have been looking deeply at this attack. From the time I have seen of Indian cricket it is only now I am seeing genuine quick bowlers from your country. Now it is one thing to bowl quick than another to maintain that quickness for a longer period of time. You had great bowlers like Irfan Pathan coming through. Never did they last long enough to mentain that form to be considered a threat. 

 

Indian bowling in general does not excite me as much as others I have seen. I guess thats the same with you on our batting? There seems to be something missing there.

Even if any of the Indian bowlers of the past were quick, how would you know? There's so much bias and so much stereotype against Indian bowlers that nobody would put that in words even if any Indian bowler were quick. You have Umesh Yadav termed as ' Fast Medium', you had Javagal Srinath termed as ' Fast Medium'. Heck, at times you have Bumrah termed as ' Right Arm Medium'!

 

About bowlers unable to maintain the pace for long, tell me for how many years did Waqar Younis maintain his pace?

You are right about 2 things, 1)  - I have studied fast bowling, both internation fast bowlers and their pace, and especially Indian pace bowlers and their pace very very closely. The fact that my first job was at ' Times of India' in the editorial deptt ( in the year 2002) helped me speak to the journalists, both Indian and foreigners very closely. That opened my eyes about a lot of things.

2) Indian bowlers lack the X factor - I agree. None of the Indian bowlers had a good mentor which affected their growth. Pakistan was lucky to have an English bred Imran Khan who mentored and taught the nuances of fast bowling and brought in a culture. Indians lacked that. But if you compare someone like Srinath who bowled mostly without any help from the other end and without any mentor, he was still damn good!