Court to BCCI: 'Fall in line or we will make you fall in line'

[Tibarn]

On 10/1/2016 at 11:28 PM, gakgupta said:

I agree with most of the points except the bolded sentence......BCCI is not a private business...it is not owned by a single person.....

A private business can be owned by multiple people. Either way, it is an autonomous body, legally and operationally.  Anything the SC does to it, it can do to any private entity. When the floodgates open, one can't stop the water's flow. 

 

On 10/1/2016 at 11:28 PM, gakgupta said:

As per you, "The law is basically for organizations that work for the benefit of society, such as health organizations".

How much it is benefiting the society can be argued but it is over-strecthing the limits for making the money....For example,

1) TV Ads have reached a point where we cannot enjoy the match anymore....

It is their right to make money. They employ thousands upon thousands of Indians either directly or indirectly. Not only that, they effectively subsidize much of the ICC. They need to make the money, especially if they continue to give away money they don't have to. India alone generates over 70% of the revenue in the cricketing world, yet they take back only a fraction of it. That is their money, yet they share it with the other boards, many of whose fans are self-important, entitled pricks who spend time abusing the very people who feed them. 

 

I mean, I hate commercials as well, but we have the mute button, I use it liberally. The worst thing is when they cut back late to the game, but all that is ever missed is the beginning of a bowler's run up. Nothing much happens between overs in the first place. The commentators are usually talking off mike, but we would only hear silence/the crowd.

 

The best way to solve this, is for the BCCI to stop subsidizing world cricket. Indian money should be used for Indian cricket. The cost is, however, some of the countries will not be able to afford many of the costs of cricket, particularly Test cricket. 

On 10/1/2016 at 11:28 PM, gakgupta said:

2) In some of the tours, they are cutting down on test matches to accomodate more ODi's or T20's, so that they can make more money..

This connects well with the above paragraph. Over the last 3 years we have played the 4th most tests, tied with Lanka. Aus/Eng/NZ have played more tests than us. However, I only remember us curtailing the SA tour, but that was because of the Haroon Lorgat issue.

 

One thing to remember is we are only 1 of the 3 countries that can make money just from test cricket, along with Aus and Eng. As I mentioned earlier, we subsidize the test cricket in other countries. Most countries likely lose money or at best break even from test cricket. They likely don't want to play long series against us in the first place. However, we always play at least 4 test series with England/Australia. On the other hand, ODIs/T20s are very profitable. 

 

Also, don't forget that just now, the BCCI has increased the pay for test cricketers. They are trying to encourage our players to dedicate themselves to the format. With the increase in pay, maybe players like Pujara can forego trying for the IPL and go for county cricket this season. 

On 10/1/2016 at 11:28 PM, gakgupta said:

3)What has politicians have to do with sporting body? What has businessmen like srinivasan have to do with sporting body? There is lot of money and this whole organization is incredible corrupt....

Like this, i can go on.....

I will use American sporting leagues as an example. The NFL, NBA, and MLB are all three run by non-sportsmen. The skills for a role as head of an organization overlap far better with business acumen, like Srinivasan's, than other skill sets. Not to mention, that sports is a business as well. It has to be profitable, otherwise it will collapse. You have to remember, before players like Gavaskar, had to work jobs on the side, even though he was the country's biggest sports star at the time. Now, even Ranji players can make a career out of cricket. 

 

So, this next part is a negative way of looking at things, but I will write it anyway. Read it if you want. 

Spoiler

We know Indian politicians are corrupt, they are united in that. However, they are also united in their involvement in cricket. As I have mentioned in my previous post, the BCCI is a private, autonomous body. It only represents the country in cricket for 2 reasons: 1) The ICC has accepted it as the representative of Indian cricket. 2) The Indian government allows it to represent the country.

 

Why does the Indian government, something that historically can't keep its "hand" out of anything, allow something from which they can profit to run by itself. In my opinion, the different parties, because they apolitically get involved in the running of cricket. As long as they all profit, they will let the cricket boards have some autonomy. Once cricket becomes the charge of the government, all the "colorfulness" of Indian politics will get involved. That would be much worse than it is now. Imagine Indian style selection quotas; we would make the South Africans look like they are running a meritocracy.  

 

On the Srinivasan front, yes Srinivasan and the Rajasthan Royals owner, definitely brought shame to the IPL/BCCI/India.  That was more on account of the idea of the integrity of the game. They put the doubt in peoples heads that there were pre-determined matches, rather than actual competition. However, ultimately, that is just conjecture as well. We just know that there were shady things going on. The two owners lost their teams, at least for 2 years. We don't know for sure if Chennai or Jaipur will even get another IPL team, as the BCCI will likely have another bidding process, so who knows what cities will get the two teams after this coming IPL season. 

 

However, corruption is a different question. As an autonomous body, as long as the BCCI pays the required taxes/fees and follow the required laws, the money they make is their's. The money is not ours, as citizens, as we do not pay the Indian government for it. They are not stealing from us, as we pay the BCCI for the service they provide: cricket. Philosophically, If we don't like what they do, we do not have to pay them or watch the team.

 

Therefore, I am not sure you can say they are corrupt. Think about it like this: if I buy a house from someone and he used all the money I paid them to buy liquor or opium, that is ultimately their loss. I got what I wanted from the deal, the house. If they are foolish enough to buy that much liquor, I can look down on them for being foolish, but they are not committing a crime or being unethical.  I think this analogy holds for the BCCI. We may not like how they spend money, but, it is their money, and, so long as they do not break laws, they can do with it what they please (provided they give us the cricket we pay for). 

On 10/1/2016 at 11:28 PM, gakgupta said:

Now, you are comparing our law to US and UK.....On paper, it might be true bit it might not be effective for us.....I lived in USA for long enough to understand that these people (on average) are little more ethical as compared to us....also these people are law-abiding (may be because of fear)......And also govt takes utmost efforts to implement them....But for people like us, who shamelessly keep ethics aside for money, same law might not work.

I was not saying it is right for us or not, I was only conveying the underlining philosophy behind the constitution. Those who formed the government of India in 1947 essentially imported the skeleton and major organs of the US/UK constitution. Technically, only the skin is Indian. However, successive Indian governments have already strayed away from the spirit of the Constitution, so why not try to go the other way and follow it? 

 

I am writing a political comment, so once again, I will use a spoilers tag, so no one will have to read it if they don't want. 

Spoiler

I take strong exception to the idea that we are less ethical or law fearing than Americans or Brits. I am in the US most of the year for doing my masters degree, so I live among them as well, although probably not as much as you. They created a meritocracy, more or less, and their governments have been competent, therefore they have done well. Our PIOs and NRIs are always among the highest achievers in western countries. They are our blood as well. We just need a similar system, and we in the motherland will succeed just as our economic refugee brothers/sisters, the aforementioned NRIs/PIOs, have done in the west. 

 

The problem is that since independence, our governments have treated us as criminals and people to be ruled over. There hasn't been much difference, in this regard, between them and the British. When you create a society that assumes its citizens are criminals and always on the path to do wrong, people will only behave that way.

 

Chanakya believed that governments should be limited, but powerful. He thought that regulations/bureaucracy should be limited, as to burden the people the least amount possible. He believed that a king should not treat his subjects like criminals. 

 

Contrast that to the supposed "liberal", our dear 1st PM, he couldn't even wait to steal our right to free speech away from us with the 1st Amendment, a mere 4 years after "azaadi." Never mind starting a business where one would need the permission of a million babus before even breaking ground. And then, (this isn't aimed at you gakgupta), his sycophants have the nerve to tell people that we didn't deserve him and that we failed him! They are right in a sense, we didn't deserve a brown Englishmen on a mission to "civilize" us, we deserved actual freedom, the kind Netaji/Sardar would have given us.       

 

Rant over  

On 10/1/2016 at 11:28 PM, gakgupta said:

You are telling that, law is out-reaching.....What other solution can you give??

Here, you got me. There is not an easy solution to this. I will say that an easy solution is not usually the best one. You and I both agree that there is a lot of dirt in cricket administration in the country. We both clearly love cricket, otherwise we wouldn't be on a forum about it, and we want it to be clean. I am just saying that, the change can not be imposed by the SC. Cricket is fun, but, when the court gets involved, intentionally/unintentionally they do set a judicial precedence. Once they interfere in an autonomous body, one that is not connected to the government of India, the barrier to repeat the behavior is lowered. This could have disastrous consequences and torpedo what great progress we made as a nation for those 10 great years under PMs Rao and Vajpayee. Cricket isn't worth that much.

 

There are two solutions to the problem that come to mind, but neither is easy:

 

1) Start a rival cricket board. This would be hard to do, even next to impossible, but this is the market based way to fight the BCCI. The BCCI, doesn't own all the cricketers in India. If someone could successfully harness the untapped parts of the country, such as Bihar and the NE, and make a somewhat viable competitor for the BCCI, there are chances, however slim, that cricket boards that have a strained relationship with the BCCI could flip to the new board. Think about how when Srinivasan was in charge and his BCCI has some issue with the Rajasthan cricket board, that could have been a chance for a hypothetical alternative Indian cricket board.

 

I think you mentioned that you were from Hyderabad, which could be easier. If you are just concerned about your state cricket board's corruption, then it should be much easier, although still difficult, to set up a rival cricket board on a state or even city level, than on the national level. 

 

2)   If you really want to get government involvement in the issue, the best way to do so is through elected politicians. One of the problems with the Indian judiciary is that they are not accountable, democratically, in any way. This makes their interference in matters much more dangerous (I'm sure you are tired of me repeating judicial overreach ). 

On the other hand, since India is a democracy, you have multiple levels of representation where you, and like minded people, can make your voices heard on issues that you care about.  If you live in Hyderabad, then you are spoiled for choice, as I think your state has a good 4-5 political parties that you can try to petition. Get other people who think like you together and make it known to your local MLAs or even your MPs, that this is an issue that enough of you care about and that you are willing to give your vote to someone who will handle your issue.  

 

I've written too much, so I'll end the post here, cheers. 

[kruiser]

^ nice read, succinctly put. You should write more. 

[CG]

Bcci did not follow its own constitution,So sc stepped in.Now Bcci has no option left.

[BeautifulGame]

Looks like the end of Thakur unless he implements is :lmao:

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Bcci did not follow its own constitution,So sc stepped in.Now Bcci has no option left.

They can ask BCCI to follow its constitution they cannot make a new one for them.

[CG]

They can ask BCCI to follow its constitution they cannot make a new one for them.

That time is long gone.They are making a new one for Bcci now.

[putrevus]

Supreme court has nothing better to do than waste money and time on BCCI. There are far more important things which supreme court needs to address. BCCI is doing fine without any external influence.

 

[CG]

Supreme court has nothing better to do than waste money and time on BCCI. There are far more important things which supreme court needs to address. BCCI is doing fine without any external influence.

 

With the kind of funds Bcci has it should be doing better than fine.

[diga]

Quote

Krishnadas Rajagopal ‏@kdrajagopal  6h6 hours ago

Anurag Thakur is a cricketer: Kapil Sibal

We r all cricketers here, Mr. Sibal. I was captain of SC judges team against the Bar: CJI Thakur

Quote

Krishnadas Rajagopal ‏@kdrajagopal  6h6 hours ago

Did you say Anurag Thakur is a first class 'player' or a first class cricketer? CJI Thakur to a lawyer

Quote

Krishnadas Rajagopal ‏@kdrajagopal  6h6 hours ago

I once captained the SC Bar agnst the judges team: #Sibal

U won? #CJIThakur

Yes: Sibal

And ur cases wer not dismissed after? CJI Thakur

Quote

Krishnadas Rajagopal ‏@kdrajagopal  6h6 hours ago

I am on a difficult terrain: Kapil Sibal begins for BCCI.

U r hired for difficult terrains. Easy cases don't need you, Mr Sibal: CJI Thakur

some exchanges in the courtroom ....

[putrevus]

19 minutes ago, CG said:

With the kind of funds Bcci has it should be doing better than fine.

Those funds are the main reason these jackals are after it. Sorry but I do not like these useless committees which waste so much of tax payers money.

 

Where are these committees and courts when so many atrocities are being committed on women thru out India what has supreme court done to stop it.Let justice department worry about fixing more important issues.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by putrevus

[New guy]

1 hour ago, CG said:

That time is long gone.They are making a new one for Bcci now.

Yep. What people do not understand is that the courts did give BCCI enough time to fix itself. Srini was clearly guilty but BCCI thought the entire India is made of fools when they kept on making committees and giving Srini clean chits after clean chits. they made a mockery of India for a couple of years before court was forced to step in. Now its too late

 

People here might have short memories but I remember how BCCI fooled us by repeatedly giving clean chits to Srini. Now there was news about Srini coming back to power. Of course the courts had to step in

[CG]

Those funds are the main reason these jackals are after it. Sorry but I do not like these useless committees which waste so much of tax payers money.

 

Where are these committees and courts when so many atrocities are being committed on women thru out India what has supreme court done to stop it.Let justice department worry about fixing more important issues.

 

The recommendation won't benefit judges it will benefit Indian cricket.Everybody resists change .

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, CG said:

The recommendation won't benefit judges it will benefit Indian cricket.Everybody resists change .

 

BCCI office bearers if they have done any criminal activities prove it in court and put them in Jail. Supreme court has no business to  tell bcci how to run it. It  is an autonomous body. What experience they have on administration and management of the sport. BCCI has done tremendous job is spreading all over the country.

 

Just couple in many of Lodha panel issues which are so ridiculous, one vote per state which is just not acceptable , 3 selectors only.

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by putrevus

[cowboysfan]

Bcci is a terrible organization.where is the money going? Where are the new stadiums and more importantly training facilities in far off places.the stadium experience his terrible with bad food and awful toilets.we need transparency and I applaud the SC here.

[BeautifulGame]

 

BCCI office bearers if they have done any criminal activities prove it in court and put them in Jail. Supreme court has no business to  tell bcci how to run it. It  is an autonomous body. What experience they have on administration and management of the sport. BCCI has done tremendous job is spreading all over the country.

 

Just couple in many of Lodha panel issues which are so ridiculous, one vote per state which is just not acceptable , 3 selectors only.

 

 

 

One vote per state is perfectly acceptable and a necessity as well.

[BeautifulGame]

 . What experience they have on administration and management of the sport. BCCI has done tremendous job is spreading all over the country.

Tremendous job ? :lmao:

The BCCI submitted in court a detailed list of its fund allocation to states, reported ANI. The list showed that 11 states out of 29 did not receive any money from the BCCI in the last five years.

Source

[Texan]

18 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

One vote per state is perfectly acceptable and a necessity as well.

If Puducherry becomes a state tomorrow, should Puducherry have the same voting power as Tamil Nadu?

[BeautifulGame]

If Puducherry becomes a state tomorrow, should Puducherry have the same voting power as Tamil Nadu?

Yes and It's better than the current scenario where everything is dominated by few states .

[BeautifulGame]

If Puducherry becomes a state tomorrow, should Puducherry have the same voting power as Tamil Nadu?

Btw why the shouldn't Pondicherry can't have the same voting power as Goa has ?

[renjith]

What's the worst that can happen, BCCI? by SHARDA UGRA

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/1061392.html