Purely on performance who are the best young fast bowlers in Indian domestics

[tweaker]

49 minutes ago, Texan said:

Looking at the way Pankaj keeps getting wickets and plugging away, I sometimes wonder if we have been wrong about his capabilities. He was given a chance in England but hasn't played a single Test at home. Sometimes some bowlers who have played a lot of domestic cricket have moulded their bowling twchnique to suit Indian conditions and are better suited at home. Both Srinath and Kapil averaged around 26 at home but 33 away. Perhaps he deserves at least one or two chances at home. 

Shami can be rested for next 2 test & the selectors should select Pankaj Singh 

[maniac]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Show me a pacer in India who can land 6 balls exactly where he wants to and also knows the exact sequence of deliveries to bowl to take wickets in a bunch consistently.....and I will be happy to take him.

 

Lack of pace does not mean high skills like Philander.

Bhuvaneshwar Kumar is as good as Philander...In fact add LOI bowling skills,I rate Bhuvi better.

 

Whenever He has got even marginally helpful conditions he has ran through sides...Philander has got way more such conditions than Bhuvi ever has....infact it was a crime he didn't play in South Africa and especially New Zealand.

 

He was over-bowled to the ground in England just like PK was in the previous tour otherwise in a couple of innings he was even better than Anderson even though he had far less support after Ishant's injury.

 

PK is another one who was really good,too bad wasted opportunity....was very accurate as well.

[Cricketics]

I really want to see more of Aaron.I have faith that he can be a really good ODI/twenty bowler. Hopefully we can have him back soon fit and strong. 

[Lannister]

45 minutes ago, Mosher said:

Aravind is already 32 years old. We have a better option in Aniket Choudhary who is a tall hit the deck bowler and he can move the ball too. Sran is another option in LOI's.

How is he performing in the Ranji? Aravind is 32? lol, then keep him away. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, gakgupta said:

Philander is a very very rare kind.....most of the times, he himself doesn't know which way bowl will seam....his seam is terribly perfect.....But point is...

Does India has anyone like him? Bowling slow doesn't mean, he can be philander....Leta alone India, none in the world.....He has a very special skill-set and pace can be easily compromised......

His seam is not perfect at all. He just hits that corridor of uncertainty on around 4th stump ball after ball. He has a wobbly seam that is he himself doesnt know which way the ball will seam. It depends on which par of seam the ball will land.

[express bowling]

41 minutes ago, maniac said:

Bhuvaneshwar Kumar is as good as Philander...In fact add LOI bowling skills,I rate Bhuvi better.

 

Whenever He has got even marginally helpful conditions he has ran through sides...Philander has got way more such conditions than Bhuvi ever has....infact it was a crime he didn't play in South Africa and especially New Zealand.

 

He was over-bowled to the ground in England just like PK was in the previous tour otherwise in a couple of innings he was even better than Anderson even though he had far less support after Ishant's injury.

 

PK is another one who was really good,too bad wasted opportunity....was very accurate as well.

An Indian pacer is not going to get only helpful conditions when he bowls.  In fact, he is going to get more unhelpful conditions.

 

Bhuvi has not been that successful when he has bowled on flatter tracks.  I don't think he is as accurate as Philander, although he is quite good on the accuracy front.

 

Anyway, Bhuvi is already in the Indian team and we are talking about new pacers here who need to be included.

 

Praveen Kumar bowled in the era of Dhoni's captaincy....the general impression was that Dhoni loved accurate medium-pacers but he did  not  get a chance.   Goes to show you that no captain will pick 125 k pacers.

[Texan]

52 minutes ago, express bowling said:

An Indian pacer is not going to get only helpful conditions when he bowls.  In fact, he is going to get more unhelpful conditions.

 

Bhuvi has not been that successful when he has bowled on flatter tracks.  I don't think he is as accurate as Philander, although he is quite good on the accuracy front.

 

Anyway, Bhuvi is already in the Indian team and we are talking about new pacers here who need to be included.

 

Praveen Kumar bowled in the era of Dhoni's captaincy....the general impression was that Dhoni loved accurate medium-pacers but he did  not  get a chance.   Goes to show you that no captain will pick 125 k pacers.

Praveen Kumar has a bowling average of 25 in Tests. 

[Texan]

2 hours ago, Lannister said:

No matter how some fans here would like to ridicule him, that is some serious number and not to mention he's a left handed bowler who is also able to get a decent bounce because of his height. Who knows he might even succeed if we use him intelligently on a pitch that suits his skills. 

Beware of the speed gun Nazis. 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, Texan said:

Praveen Kumar has a bowling average of 25 in Tests. 

 

Because he has played all his 6  test matches in

 

either swing-friendly England ( which is  the best place in the world  for medium paced swing bowlers ....remember World Cup 1983 where our medium paced swing bowlers out-bowled the famed WI pace quartet )

 

or in the West indies where the batting side was not the best on that tour and the conditions decent for swing bowling.

 

He was never tested in India, other Asian countries, Australia etc.

 

Besides....the Indian cricket team is not selected by the posters on ICF.   If he was so good, why did the captain, coach, selectors etc. not choose him  ?

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Texan said:

Beware of the speed gun Nazis. 

Dhoni did not pick Aravind  most of the times in the 11 even when he was in the squad.  He was never asked for again to represent India.  Why ?

 

Do you think Dhoni is a speed-gun Nazi  ?   I  would say NO.

Edited November 18, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

12 minutes ago, Texan said:

Praveen Kumar has a bowling average of 25 in Tests. 

PK played 3 tests in WI in 2011 in conditions where even Ishant took 22 wickets and was MOS in that series and then 3 tests in England conditions that suited his bowling. I would advocate to only pick swing bowlers like PK and BK when we play in England until conditions are really dry. We can try BK and Sandeep Sharma as an opening pair, both fairly accurate swing bowlers, in England on our next tour and 3rd seamer should be a quicker bowler who could use old ball and get some reverse, probably, Shami who was very poor on last England tour or Yadav who is yet to play there or someone else better if we could find by then.

[Texan]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Dhoni did not pick Aravind  most of the times in the 11 even when he was in the squad.  He was never asked for again to represent India.  Why ?

 

Do you think Dhoni is a speed-gun Nazi  ?   I  would say NO.

Point is not about Arvind in particular, but the over emphasis on speed gun metrics to measure a pace bowler. While I definitely think that speed is an important component for a pacer, it is one of a myriad of components. We should not just dismiss players who bowl below a certain threshold of pace as ineffective. On flat tracks, even the fast bowlers have been found to be ineffective. 

[tweaker]

Lalit Yadav has a fairly high arm action, which allows him to extract bounce. He keeps his front knee straight at the point of delivery, which helps him generate pace off the deck. Cricket came to this 21-year-old by chance, but now that he has fallen in love with fast bowling, Lalit wants to be a tearaway quick like his Vidarbha statemate Umesh Yadav.

This is Lalit’s debut season in first-class cricket and he has already bagged a couple of five-fors despite being only into his fourth Ranji Trophy fixture. The latest came on the second day of the Ranji Trophy Group B game against Maharashtra at Eden Gardens on Monday. The youngster returned with 5/81 from 23 overs on a sluggish pitch, hitting close to 137kph at times. “He will get to 140kph soon,” Lalit’s state team coach Paras Mhambrey said.

[tweaker]

Lalit Yadav says once in cricket, I always wanted to bowl fast. I clocked 138kph at the MRF Pace Foundation. I want to bowl faster. No one has been an influence; I just tried to bowl quick for fun. I learnt my basics under Subroto Banerjee at the academy and now Paras sir is shaping me as a fast bowler. Sometimes Umesh bhai drops in at the academy and offers support and advice. Bowling discipline is very important in first-class cricket. I’m learning the ropes,” said Lalit. 

He is basically an outswing bowler but has the ability to reverse when the ball gets older. “I bowl outswing with the new ball. That’s my stock ball. When it gets older, I try to move the ball both ways. I can reverse the old ball. If I want to bowl cutters, I try to land it on the seam,” Lalit unlocked the technical secret.

He was wayward Sunday but showed a lot more discipline today. Lalit accounted for Rahul Tripathi with a lovely outswinger and breached Vishant More’s defence next ball with a fast yorker. Centurion Ankit Bawne played a little early and was caught at mid-off, when Lalit rolled his fingers over the seam. He also had a catch dropped of Naushad Shaikh early in his innings. The latter went on to score 127 and added 201 runs with Bawne for the fourth wicket.

[express bowling]

45 minutes ago, Texan said:

Point is not about Arvind in particular, but the over emphasis on speed gun metrics to measure a pace bowler. While I definitely think that speed is an important component for a pacer, it is one of a myriad of components. We should not just dismiss players who bowl below a certain threshold of pace as ineffective. On flat tracks, even the fast bowlers have been found to be ineffective. 

 

Seam bowlers are selected in the  Indian squad  by selectors and  picked in the playing 11 by  the captain and the coach.

 

If  posters on ICF  are wrong about wanting quicker bowlers,  even then that has no bearing on actual team selection.

 

Can you tell me why, for the last 15 years, after India started producing sufficient pacers of international pace, 5 different captains, atleast 7 different coaches and so many different selectors have generally all tried to avoid medium pacers even though they have impressive FC records   ?  Only a couple of genuine swing bowlers have been picked with any consistency  in all these years and even then they have not played that much.

 

Why has this happened with so many top cricketers of our country as well as some foreign coaches involved in the decision making process  ?

Edited November 18, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Lalit Yadav says once in cricket, I always wanted to bowl fast. I clocked 138kph at the MRF Pace Foundation. I want to bowl faster. No one has been an influence; I just tried to bowl quick for fun. I learnt my basics under Subroto Banerjee at the academy and now Paras sir is shaping me as a fast bowler. Sometimes Umesh bhai drops in at the academy and offers support and advice. Bowling discipline is very important in first-class cricket. I’m learning the ropes,” said Lalit. 

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by express bowling

[Texan]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Seam bowlers are selected in the  Indian squad  by selectors and  picked in the playing 11 by  the captain and the coach.

 

If  posters on ICF  are wrong about wanting quicker bowlers,  even then that has no bearing on actual team selection.

 

Can you tell me why, for the last 15 years, after India started producing pacers of international pace, 5 different captains, atleast 7 different coaches and so many different selectors have generally all tried to avoid medium pacers even though they have impressive FC records   ?  Only a couple of genuine swing bowlers have been picked with any consistency  in all these years and even then they have not played that much.

 

Why has this happened with so many top cricketers of our country as well as some foreign coaches involved in the decision making process  ?

India did not just start producing pace bowlers, we had them in the past as well. Heard of Ashish Zaidi? And no, captains,coaches, selectors have not just used the speed gun to determine players to be picked. Yes, speed has been considered as one component, but not the only component. Otherwise, a  Rahul Shukla would be picked ahead of a BK. Vinay Kumar, Abhimanyu Mithun, Unadkat, Dhawal have all played international cricket despite not being very pacy. Most of them were unsuccessful more because they lacked other bowling skills that are needed to be successful. 

[tweaker]

A tale of two fast bowlers:

Nathu Singh & Avesh Khan.

 

One was picked up at the Indian Premier League auction for a colossal fee, the other didn’t make it to any team. But both hope to play for Team India one day

On the heels of the thrilling World Twenty20 (T20) comes the Indian Premier League (IPL), which begins on 9 April. One of the great joys of the IPL is that it throws up young, raw talent, giving viewers the chance to watch international stars in the making. This year, many eyes were on a bowler named Nathu Singh.

 

Go back to the winter of 2014. It was a nondescript Under-19 (U-19) match in Jaipur. Rajasthan were playing Madhya Pradesh (MP). Singh, the young, fast bowler who led the Rajasthan attack, watched with increasing admiration the work of his MP counterpart, Avesh Khan. Khan, in turn, watched Singh with awe. The two fast bowlers enjoyed assessing each other’s raw speed and skill. That brief encounter soon turned into a firm friendship.

 

Three months later, they became partners—a dangerous and fast opening duo for the Central Zone U-19 team. Singh and Khan liked the way they worked together. They spoke of a shared dream: to play for India, to share the new ball wearing the blue jersey, working in tandem to unsettle opposing batsmen.

Since then, both bowlers have made their first-class debuts: Khan for MP in December 2014, and Singh for Rajasthan last October.

Just three years ago, both Khan and Singh were bowling with tennis balls in narrow lanes, in neighbourhood matches where they were the kings, known for their pace and accuracy. It was during such a match in a Jaipur lane that people told Singh he should pick up a real cricket ball and go through formal training—he was too fast for gali mohalla cricket.

 

This was easier said than done. Singh comes from a low-income family. His father works in a wire-manufacturing factory near Jaipur. Joining a cricket academy would cost him Rs.10,000 a year, money that his parents did not have.

 

The academy subsidized his fees, and by the end of 2014, he was playing for the Rajasthan U-19. Soon, he was selected by the MRF Pace Foundation in Chennai, where he would be trained by Glenn McGrath, the Australian fast bowler. In 2015, Singh made an outstanding debut against Delhi in the Ranji Trophy, picking up seven wickets in the match.

 

Khan, too, had found a mentor. When he was just 13, Khan had been spotted by former India opener Amay Khurasia at the Madhya Pradesh Cricket Association in Indore. 

 

But Khurasia and Khan are both confident that Khan will play for India soon. “During the (U-19) World Cup, Tom Moody (former Australian all-rounder and Sri Lanka coach) was saying to someone that me and Rishabh Pant (his U-19 teammate) would play for the senior team. Moody said he had said the same thing about David Warner and Glenn Maxwell (both of whom are now stars in the Australian team). So it felt nice,” says Khan.

 

In Indian cricket, pace is a virtue that acquires tremendous value because of its rarity. So fast bowlers often get selected quickly in the senior side when they display talent. Some of the pacers in domestic cricket, however, believe that obsession with pace can harm someone like Singh, who always checks his speed rather than his line and length when the pitch-map of his bowling is presented to him after the day’s play.

 

“I will never compromise on my pace,” says Singh. “I want to serve India, and Yuvraj Singh has told me that my speed will take me places. I have a dream of becoming the fastest bowler in the world, someone like Shoaib Akhtar or Dale Steyn.”

 

Khan is inspired by the pace of Brett Lee, but understands that speed is not everything in international cricket. “Steyn and Mohammed Shami are aggressive fast bowlers,” Khan says. “But they are always accurate with line and length.”

 

If Singh grew up bowling with plastic and tennis balls in Jaipur, Khan did the same in Indore. He decided to pursue cricket seriously four years ago. “In 2012, I closely followed the U-19 World Cup in Australia,”.

 

Both Singh and Khan bowl at speeds of over 140kmph and are expected to add more variety and speed to their armoury. Singh may have won the short sprint to an IPL contract, but it’s the marathon run to the India cap that both are interested in. It will test their resolve and abilities. But sharing the India dressing room and the new ball for the country remains their ultimate goal.

[tweaker]

14 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Yadav will be a big superstar in Vidharbha 

[express bowling]

26 minutes ago, Texan said:

India did not just start producing pace bowlers, we had them in the past as well. Heard of Ashish Zaidi? And no, captains,coaches, selectors have not just used the speed gun to determine players to be picked. Yes, speed has been considered as one component, but not the only component. Otherwise, a  Rahul Shukla would be picked ahead of a BK. Vinay Kumar, Abhimanyu Mithun, Unadkat, Dhawal have all played international cricket despite not being very pacy. Most of them were unsuccessful more because they lacked other bowling skills that are needed to be successful. 

I  have actually watched Zaidi bowl in a domestic match let alone hearing about him.  But, at that time we had only Srinath, Zaidi and Ankola who could be considered international pace. Zaidi was not picked because of regional politics and Ankola lost focus and wanted to do movies.  There were not sufficient number of pacers who could be considered fast-medium or fast.

 

BUT 

 

that is not my point.

 

Every bowler with pace has not been picked because skills are important too

 

BUT

 

why have so few medium pacers got a consistent run in Indian cricket in the last 15 years whereas seamers with pace have got many many more chances to prove their mettle....like Ishant, Aaron, Umesh etc.

 

How many chances have Dhawal, Vinay, Mithun, Praveen  etc. got to call them failures in international cricket ?

 

Why has this happened under 5 different Indian captains and 7 different coaches  ?  inaccurate Aaron has played as many tests under Dhoni as accurate Bhuvi has.  Dhoni recently said that Rishi Dhawan is someone who you cannot really choose in an intenational team.

 

Looks like every Indian captain and coach has less faith in medium pacers than they have in faster bowlers.....it is not just some posters on ICF.

Edited November 18, 2016 by express bowling