Hey England, guess what ? Umesh-Shami Out played your seamers

[sourab10forever]

3 hours ago, New guy said:

I love how OP is clubbing Umesh with Shami. Yeah the true stats

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=11351;type=series

 

Umesh averages worse than every single English seam bowler apart from Woakes. But hey, he bowled better, because speed guns...

 

Shami is on an entirely different level 

It's not just the speed...He has bowled well. Many dropped chances off him. And sometimes the stats don't matter. I clubed them together because they bowled in partnerships and complemented each other. I do think you did not match the match otherwise you would not have said that. 

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, New guy said:

Looking like a million dollars with averaging 58 doesn't help the team. Ishant averaged 19 this match. There is only so many times you can make excuses for Yadav, you kno

looks like you didnt hear what Boycott said about Ishant's bowling in this test.

[Silva]

Their both as good as any in world in term of wicket taking ability. But they both have to prove that they can bowl 20 overs in a day on flat pitch and keep the opposition under pressure. Thats the real challenge. 

[tweaker]

We need a bowler like Hazlewood to compliment Shami ,who can bowl line & length in the corridor 

[MCcricket]

6 hours ago, New guy said:

Another person spouting absolute garbage because - speed guns. Every stat proves you wrong and BK easily outbowls Umesh even in home condition. But please keep repeating this ignorant LIE every time because it will prove to be true one day...

 

he takes 5-fer for fun but can never be a strike bowler you know? He averages 28 but can never be a strike bowler. He won us matches in England, WI at home with 5-fers but can never be a stike bowler

 

Internet allows every ignorant person to spout his ignorance

Just imagine in Chepauk on 5 the day what option would have of Virat bowling BK, his ball would bounce twice before reaching the keeper, the pace that Umesh n Ishant have helped them be aggressive n get wkts on a feather bed, what would BK do, hurry batsmen ,No, seam no it wasn't seaming, No, bounce no he won't be able to get any in Chepauk at his pace n release, swing ,,,No, so what option does captain have , nothing, u have to play n understand cricket , Why do Hussain , Atherton, Beefy wax eloquent about Umesh , Shami because they have a rare commodity , like Usain Bolt you will never find many running 100 m in 9.79 same way in cricket being 145 k plus is rare.

Now why is that relevant n why need to be speed obsessed , because the extra pace is the one thing that makes batsmen do silly things n causes unforced error.How do good batsmen get out , no they can handle pace but with 145 k pace, n bowling a sharp one at your throat most will loose their front foot play for next few deliveries, at 145 k a pacer will extract more bounce and reverse, also he is able to use the ball throughout 90 overs .

Now 125 to 135 k bowlers r a dime a dozen , most county n Ranji teams have few of them, what can they do , on a very helpful track extract initial movement n get edges n wkts mostly, so why would any capt be foolish to limit his option n choose a bowler who gives him a less of an advantage n a handicap.

You don't get it coz you don't see what Nasser sees, one of the shrewdest mind out there, or Beefy who was a great allrounder, or Atherton who has faced very good bowlers in his time, yes yes yes, we r speed obsessed coz pace like fire makes a difference, you have to be stupid not to get that , or underestimate something which is rare n very valuable for a captain, n that is why a 125 k bowler has never been a world class test bowler , all great bowlers had one thing n that this g was pace, in the history of cricket no Trundlers has been an all time great bowler, Mgrath, Ambrose, Akram, Imran, Holding, Steyn, Garner, you have to be blind or numb nuts not to get it.

Would Holding be as good if he bowled 10 k slower, or Steyn bowling at 135 compared to his pace, even with all his skills?, Yes some bowlers at the tag end of their career loose some pace n are still effective as Zak , Akram but they are masters at their skill n still , around 137 to 142 capacity.

Have you played club cricket, or school, or district, or with domestic players, they will tell you if you talk to them, and you would be stupid to still argue n beat a dead horse.

Pace rules ,speed is king, skills can be improved n pace cannot be learnt

An Umesh can become a BK n learn his skills n be a killer like Steyn but a BK can never be a Umesh maybe one odd case like Craig Whit, Imran Khan who were medium pacers n then bowled fast later but generally no.

[Vilander]

17 hours ago, Riju23 said:

It's been a while (and it didn't last long) but we did get some praise for the Zaheer - Ishant combo in 2008-09. As I recall, the pair bowled really well at home vs England & Australia and then on tour in NZ. We won all three series, and I believe Zaheer was MOS against England and Ishant was MOS against the Aussies. 

 

A little sad how things turned out afterwards, but at that moment (maybe midway or end of the NZ tour) we were lauded for our opening pair. Amazing to say it now, but even the backup fast bowling and depth looked pretty good with Sreesanth, Munaf Patel, and RP Singh all playing well at some point in the recent past (e.g. all three Down Under in the 07-08 tour, RP Singh in England, Munaf in NZ, etc). Somehow all three of those guys (and Ishant) went downhill quickly and at the same time haha

i remember the time when Zak could reverse and conventional swing at will and in the same pitches Broad and Anderson could not reverse it, thats when Zak was top of the game for a period.

[Vilander]

17 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

I know what you are trying to say.  It was or is  a trait among the older England, SA and Australian commentators, those who are 60+ or even 70+ now.

 

They used terms like nippy, brisk etc, for Indian fast bowlers like Srinath while even a much slower McGrath or Pollock were called fast.

exactly and i remember the Srinath times as well, Srinath would visibly put effort balls and would hurry batsmen but would do no nasty stuff after runup while magrath you know what he does..due to be given he was much better than Sri overall but not always. But they would make Sri look lesser, while clearly it appears now that Sri was much faster when ever there were speed guns.

[Vilander]

11 hours ago, New guy said:

Another person spouting absolute garbage because - speed guns. Every stat proves you wrong and BK easily outbowls Umesh even in home condition. But please keep repeating this ignorant LIE every time because it will prove to be true one day...

 

he takes 5-fer for fun but can never be a strike bowler you know? He averages 28 but can never be a strike bowler. He won us matches in England, WI at home with 5-fers but can never be a stike bowler

 

Internet allows every ignorant person to spout his ignorance

MTC cool down, pace appeals to many and tender chocolate boy Bhuv with his dibbly dobbly cute cheeky swing is more appealing to some. Pace jizz crowd has gotta admit that Yadav lacks a bit of grey cells, But even you gotta admit Yadav got lots dropped off him, atleast 6 of them in the series at 50% thats 3 more wickets !

[New guy]

9 hours ago, Silva said:

Their both as good as any in world in term of wicket taking ability. But they both have to prove that they can bowl 20 overs in a day on flat pitch and keep the opposition under pressure. Thats the real challenge. 

Ghanta wicket taking ability. Umesh took 8 wickets in 10 innings, not even a wicket per innings.  He went wicketless in 5 out of 10 innings. He took 1 wicket in 2 out of 10 innings. This means in 7 innings out of 10, he took 2 wickets in total. Maximum wickets he took in an innings was 2 and maximum in a match was 3

 

At least itna cirlcejerk karne se pahle facts dekh lo. Yeah he is an amazing wicket taking bowler and better than all English bowlers combined

 

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by New guy

[New guy]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

MTC cool down, pace appeals to many and tender chocolate boy Bhuv with his dibbly dobbly cute cheeky swing is more appealing to some. Pace jizz crowd has gotta admit that Yadav lacks a bit of grey cells, But even you gotta admit Yadav got lots dropped off him, atleast 6 of them in the series at 50% thats 3 more wickets !

Whats the point of looking good without taking wickets. And those drops only happened this series. There is no problem with Kohli encouraging him and keeping him in the side, but seriously claiming that he bowled better than English bowler and comparing him with Shami now? Shami averaged 25. Umesh 58

[Silva]

44 minutes ago, New guy said:

Ghanta wicket taking ability. Umesh took 8 wickets in 10 innings, not even a wicket per innings.  He went wicketless in 5 out of 10 innings. He took 1 wicket in 2 out of 10 innings. This means in 7 innings out of 10, he took 2 wickets in total. Maximum wickets he took in an innings was 2 and maximum in a match was 3

 

At least itna cirlcejerk karne se pahle facts dekh lo. Yeah he is an amazing wicket taking bowler and better than all English bowlers combined

 

 

Calm down man. He had like 6 drops of his bowling he does create  those opportunities just as often as any other bolwer. Relax a little bit this much emotion and anger when your team is winning isnt healthy for u bro.

[Silva]

And the funny thing is i agree with u that bk is a better bowler lol.

[CG]

Bhuvi fans should be thanking Yadav for bowling on dead tracks .Bhuvi will come on track which aids fast bowling and will pick up wickets.Team management is using Bhuvi judiciously.

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, CG said:

Bhuvi fans should be thanking Yadav for bowling on dead tracks .Bhuvi will come on track which aids fast bowling and will pick up wickets.Team management is using Bhuvi judiciously.

Yes and that's why his stats look so good. 5 tests on dead pitches like these and that average will quickly fall to 40 like it was before that one test and in WI and one at Kolkata. Even Yadav picked 5 wickets in WI on a good track in first test. Before that he won us the last test against SA. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by rkt.india

[express bowling]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Yes and that's why his stats look so good. 5 tests on dead pitches like these and that average will quickly fall to 40 like it was before that one test and in WI and one at Kolkata. Even Yadav picked 5 wickets in WI on a good track in first test. Before that he won us the last test against SA. 

Yes.....How will Yadav have good stats if he is dropped on every green track or in every swing-friendly condition and plays on every flat pitch ?

 

Bhuvi played on one flat track in this series and averages 60.   I don't blame him but that is what can happen when you play on flat tracks.

[Vilander]

13 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Yes and that's why his stats look so good. 5 tests on dead pitches like these and that average will quickly fall to 40 like it was before that one test and in WI and one at Kolkata. Even Yadav picked 5 wickets in WI on a good track in first test. Before that he won us the last test against SA. 

 

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Yes.....How will Yadav have good stats if he is dropped on every green track or in every swing-friendly condition and plays on every flat pitch ?

 

Bhuvi played on one flat track in this series and averages 60.   I don't blame him but that is what can happen when you play on flat tracks.

I think if Yadav can get better control at 138 then he should slowdown and show better control in a few sessions so that they play him in green tracks as well.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

I think if Yadav can get better control at 138 then he should slowdown and show better control in a few sessions so that they play him in green tracks as well.

Slowing down does not increase control unless the bowler was bowling at a higher pace than what is natural for him.  Umesh bowls at his natural pace and slowing down actually makes him more inaccurate.  I saw him bowl 130 k  to 137 k once and he was spraying the ball like anything.

Edited December 22, 2016 by express bowling

[MCcricket]

Yadav n Shami with a bit more focus n improvement could be lethal in SA, NZ or Australia , Eng.

Shami

Umesh

Ishant

Aaron

Sran

BK

Pandya

No a bad pool of bowlers to have

[rahulrulezz]

Umesh was very unfortunate. He had more than 6 catches dropped of him. And I personally remember seeing ball going between second slip and keeper 4 times in the series as we didn't have a first slip. Regardless he bowled with a heart and bowled faster than any other bowler. Keep doing the great job Umesh. 

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

I think if Yadav can get better control at 138 then he should slowdown and show better control in a few sessions so that they play him in green tracks as well.

No he wont. He tried it in the past and it did not work. It is not about pace but bowling action. If you complete your bowling action well, there are less chances of spraying. He tried to slow down and concentrate on accuracy but then he would not finish his action well and it didn't workout. He was sparying the ball at a low pace. He is far more accurate now.