Umesh Yadav the best India pacer: Rodney Hogg

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/851245.html

 

"When I wasn't swinging it as much, I tinkered with moving that seam around a bit. I got to a stage where I had it pointing to third slip, which was too much. I tinkered with having my thumb underneath, on the seam, where it joins the ball, or actually on the stitching. It would really depend on how I felt on the day. If it was coming out really good, I'd stick with what I started with. If I was not so sure, or it wasn't swinging as much, I'd make subtle changes."

 

"every single day you bowl it can be different."

 

 

Just what I told you above. He played around a lot with the ball. Most swing and seam bowlers do. 

 

he might have but most of the time, i saw him bowl with upright seam and you won't always swing the ball with upright seam. He might have swung balls at times but he was not a genuine swing bowler like Dale Steyn and James Anderson. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

And yet, some of the same bowlers are 80 mph  to 83 mph for this debate    

Check for yourself Bob Willis is bowling 80 mph in this game. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by rkt.india

[speedheat]

This thread is hilarious. So many great bowlers suddenly turned into trundlers to fit a narrative

 

Hahahahah rofl

[speedheat]

They were not in the 90mph club according to most who faced them. They definitely were not in the 135K+ club in the 80s. 

 

 

What are you talking dear friend?? Please have look at the fiery spell of sir hadlee vs Australia on youtube!! I am damn sure he was 90mph+

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

they become quick or slow depending on the debate,many times in the past he claimed how quick the bowlers in the past were ..

 

2 hours ago, Mosher said:

This thread is hilarious. So many great bowlers suddenly turned into trundlers to fit a narrative

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by express bowling

[speedheat]

Rofl people here are suddenly turning The greats of the game into trundlers just to prove umesh inferior !! But the ultimate reality and fact is that umesh is here to stay and umesh haters should strictly watch how wasim akram the greatest of pace bowler and KKR coach praising umesh

 

Few days back some of the haters even called ishant superior then umesh and Lol IPL

Franchises trolled them when ishant went unsold and umesh retained by kkr

[rkt.india]

Sir Hadlee bhi 80 mph

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl12JJqAzpI

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Yes, And was very successful at 135ks too.

 

I will give you my take on this.

 

I am not too worried about pace honestly as long as it is decent. I love pace bowling like most here. Infact more than some of you guys as it is my bread and butter now part time. I do it day in day out, work hard to get faster as I still play competitive cricket right now and hope to get that cricinfo profile of my own one day. 

 

My whole take is that we sometimes act too desperate to protect our favorite bowlers because we like them to be backed as they are different.

 

Like Bhuvi fans like me will feel about him having great line and length and that he should play because he is more accurate. 

 

Umesh fans like Umesh for his pace and bounce and feel he should because we need to develop a culture.

 

Both fan groups have a point and both are wrong also for protecting them at times where they shouldn't.

 

But one thing is true that both provide unique opinions because both are two very different bowlers to have come out of India in the last 2 decades because one is really fast and the other is really good with the swing. 

 

 

I thiink amongst all this we sometimes forget that all of us are right but there we have reached a point of stalemate. It's basically agree to disagree point.

 

MY TWO CENTS

 

 

The argument that we are trying to oppose is this.

 

Pollock/Mcgrath bowled 130-135 they were great and where 10000x better than Umesh, so Umesh who bowls 140-145 is not good enough as and when we find a few 130-135 who are accurate like say a Kapil/pollock and other greats of the time, he needs to be relegated. 

 

 

This is just BS and hate for Umesh for no reason, it does not provide succinct evidence to prove 10000x quality, it does not take into consideration the fact that we dont know what pace some of the erstwhile greats like Kapil,Hadlee bowled, even if we consider that they bowled at 135, it needs to be considered with reference to normal at that time ( say a madan lal or prabhakar) if they had an eminence of 10k's( 135 on 125) they are like a 145k bowler this day against the norm of 135k bowlers everywhere. And lets find great 130 k bowlers first before considering relegating Umesh, bowling at 130k does not make a bowler automatically accurate.

 

Ryan Harris was a proper fast bowler who could hit high 140's with great accuracy at will, please let us not compare Bhuvi with him.

 

[Cricketics]

6 hours ago, speedheat said:

Rofl people here are suddenly turning The greats of the game into trundlers just to prove umesh inferior !! But the ultimate reality and fact is that umesh is here to stay and umesh haters should strictly watch how wasim akram the greatest of pace bowler and KKR coach praising umesh

 

Few days back some of the haters even called ishant superior then umesh and Lol IPL

Franchises trolled them when ishant went unsold and umesh retained by kkr

Ishant is the luckiest bowler to have played for so long. He kept getting picked for that spell against Ponting. 

It was fine to develop him earlier, but he did not learn for a long time. He is still so inconsistent.  Basednon that spell in Perth, he kept his place evennin LOI's.

 

And now wanted 2crores, what a greedy guy. He got the right lesson. 

 

[Laaloo]

5 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

 

The argument that we are trying to oppose is this.

 

Pollock/Mcgrath bowled 130-135 they were great and where 10000x better than Umesh, so Umesh who bowls 140-145 is not good enough as and when we find a few 130-135 who are accurate like say a Kapil/pollock and other greats of the time, he needs to be relegated. 

 

 

This is just BS and hate for Umesh for no reason, it does not provide succinct evidence to prove 10000x quality, it does not take into consideration the fact that we dont know what pace some of the erstwhile greats like Kapil,Hadlee bowled, even if we consider that they bowled at 135, it needs to be considered with reference to normal at that time ( say a madan lal or prabhakar) if they had an eminence of 10k's( 135 on 125) they are like a 145k bowler this day against the norm of 135k bowlers everywhere. And lets find great 130 k bowlers first before considering relegating Umesh, bowling at 130k does not make a bowler automatically accurate.

 

Ryan Harris was a proper fast bowler who could hit high 140's with great accuracy at will, please let us not compare Bhuvi with him.

 

Seriously comparing Bhuvi to Ryan Harris is more of a travesty than comparing Umesh to Pollock.

[Cricketics]

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

 

 

The argument that we are trying to oppose is this.

 

Pollock/Mcgrath bowled 130-135 they were great and where 10000x better than Umesh, so Umesh who bowls 140-145 is not good enough as and when we find a few 130-135 who are accurate like say a Kapil/pollock and other greats of the time, he needs to be relegated. 

 

 

This is just BS and hate for Umesh for no reason, it does not provide succinct evidence to prove 10000x quality, it does not take into consideration the fact that we dont know what pace some of the erstwhile greats like Kapil,Hadlee bowled, even if we consider that they bowled at 135, it needs to be considered with reference to normal at that time ( say a madan lal or prabhakar) if they had an eminence of 10k's( 135 on 125) they are like a 145k bowler this day against the norm of 135k bowlers everywhere. And lets find great 130 k bowlers first before considering relegating Umesh, bowling at 130k does not make a bowler automatically accurate.

Yes, that's why i asked who got Pollock here into conversation.

 

I have always maintained that bowling at 140+ is a skill just like being bowling swing  and seam. It takes months and years of practice, training and hard work for the fast bowlers to bowl that fast and  Umesh has done that clearly.

 

 

Now with Umesh, I have said before that he needs to work on not losing interest as he reminds me of Sehwag a bit in attitude while bowlig. Sehwag used to get bored on non-strikers end, while Umesh gets the same way after taking 1-2 wickets. He is an improved bowler and can do better than that by keeping the momentum going

 

 

[Vilander]

Just now, laaloo said:

Seriously comparing Bhuvi to Ryan Harris is more of a travesty than comparing Umesh to Pollock.

i would say Shami is a slightly lesser version of Ryan Harris ( in terms of returns)- not too sure if its because of the better conditions that Ryan got but yeah, i see similarities from a non critical eye.

[Cricketics]

8 minutes ago, Vilander said:

i would say Shami is a slightly lesser version of Ryan Harris ( in terms of returns)- not too sure if its because of the better conditions that Ryan got but yeah, i see similarities from a non critical eye.

Not really, Harris had a totally different way of pitching. Check out the wrist of Harris and Shami. Two totally different bowlers. Harris focused a lot of times on seam and changing it up to swing. 

Shami does have actually a good short ball though compared to Harris. 

[speedheat]

Ishant is the luckiest bowler to have played for so long. He kept getting picked for that spell against Ponting. 

It was fine to develop him earlier, but he did not learn for a long time. He is still so inconsistent.  Basednon that spell in Perth, he kept his place evennin LOI's.

 

And now wanted 2crores, what a greedy guy. He got the right lesson. 

 

 

Shocker !!! 2crore !! Haven't watched auctions but that was pathetic from ishant..yes you're right their he is riding on the past glory and did nothing in the ipl

[Cricketics]

7 minutes ago, speedheat said:

 

Shocker !!! 2crore !! Haven't watched auctions but that was pathetic from ishant..yes you're right their he is riding on the past glory and did nothing in the ipl

Still after being so bad in IPL, I still feel he is better than some and could have retained his place or goten contract but he had to play it smart. Should have kept the base price at 20lakh so teams would have bid on him easily. He could have easily gone for 50-60 lakh that way during bid war. But he fooled himself.

 

Negi did smart by going that route ended up earning close to crore after low base price. 

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Still after being so bad in IPL, I still feel he is better than some and could have retained his place or goten contract but he had to play it smart. Should have kept the base price at 20lakh so teams would have bid on him easily. He could have easily gone for 50-60 lakh that way during bid war. But he fooled himself.

 

Negi did smart by going that route ended up earning close to crore after low base price. 

Aaron had a base price of 30 lacs and ended up with 2.8 crores.

[Cricketics]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Aaron had a base price of 30 lacs and ended up with 2.8 crores.

Aaron is at least fast and quality and returning after long time. Ishant Sharma has been crap in 2020s for a while now. 

He can learn a thingnor two from Nehra or Zaheer about hard work. 

 

You can't trust Ishant to bowl in the death, so it is always hard to pick a fast bowler who can't bowl in death in IPL or twenty20. 

 

Aaron can do all of that. 

 

Everyone gets hit in 2020, but they learn and try to do different things, Ishant however sticks to his same old conventional ways of bowling in 2020s, that doesn't work in 2020s. 

 

[Muloghonto]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

yes, according him all bowlers in 80s bowled 95 mph consistently whole day.

All bowlers ?

No, i said genuinely fast bowlers (who had stock ball at 144kph or so) are Andy Roberts, Mikey Holding, Colin Croft, Curtly Ambrose, Malcolm Marshall, Denis Lillee,Imran Khan, Ian Bishop, Courtney Walsh etc. from the 80s.

Bowlers like Kapil, Hadlee, Botham, Willis, Garner - they were in the 130-135 kph range for most of their careers. yes, at their peaks they all bowled 135-140ish range, but most of their wickets came after this peak and were picked in the 130-135 kph range.

Same with McGrath- he was capable of bowling at 140-ish if he chose and the 99 series in West Indies, he consistently bowled 140 kph. But since then, every single series McGrath bowled consistently in the low 130s zone and he still picked up 300 wickets or so after the West indies series, so my point is - he picked most of his wickets while being a medium pacer- like Kapil, Botham, Hadlee, Garner, etc. did. 

 

So to say you need pace to succeed, is false.

 

[Vilander]

ok. 

 

Speed Jizz - 2  Trundler love - 0

 

 

sorry @Muloghonto i still adore your history/politics posts.

[Vilander]

11 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Aaron is at least fast and quality and returning after long time. Ishant Sharma has been crap in 2020s for a while now. 

He can learn a thingnor two from Nehra or Zaheer about hard work. 

 

You can't trust Ishant to bowl in the death, so it is always hard to pick a fast bowler who can't bowl in death in IPL or twenty20. 

 

Aaron can do all of that. 

 

Everyone gets hit in 2020, but they learn and try to do different things, Ishant however sticks to his same old conventional ways of bowling in 2020s, that doesn't work in 2020s. 

 

I think the key is death bowling that made Ishant loose out and of course people must have scored when they realized he thought he was worth 2 crores to start with.