India has no chance of scoring 350 plus

[putrevus]

30 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

So we dint get to 350 today cos Dhoni scored only 48 of 33 or is it cos we score at 5 rpo in first 15 ? 

 

 

So you expect openers to start scoring 10 RPO from first over.Teams are doubling their totals from 30 overs. They had eight wickets in hand.It should be not too much to ask to score a boundary every over from 40th over.

 

There is a downside of Rohit Sharma's batting if he gets out after consuming lot of deliveries but we simply don't have any alternative for him. scoring 100 plus in last ten is a norm and they scored 80 odd due to Jadhav's last over magic.

 

 

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Weren't you the one arguing against me when I advocated promoting Jadhav in the batting order?  This was last year.

 

 

Yes because I always thought we could find better options but boy I wrong. He is a must for this team.

[Pollack]

43 minutes ago, chewy said:

India will always struggle to score 350 not with just a limp middle order but the way the top three play.

 

As good as Rohit and Dhawan are, both are in it for.long run and never really capitalise on power play, rarely do they score 110 plus in first 15 overs

Correct. One of the less discussed issue is our top three especially Rohit taking a lot of time and wasting pp and a significant chunk of overs even on better surfaces. Of course middle order is crap too.

[flamy]

It's another thing that what maybe 3 times other teams have crossed 300 against our bowling since 2017?

[jusarrived]

16 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Sssh.  Don't interrupt the stupid brigade with less than obvious facts.

I get some of the criticism Dhoni gets , no denying he has to do better but I really don’t see how he’s the root cause of all problems . As bad as we think our middle order is the top order more often scores only soft runs . We are ok with the openers settling in for 30 overs before they take some risks , but some how the middle order guys are expected to come in and hit out from word go ? 

The only team which scores 350 with ease is England and some of these guys should watch how they pace their innings . Without a wicket lost Eng would be close to 200 in 25 . 

[jusarrived]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So you expect openers to start scoring 10 RPO from first over.Teams are doubling their totals from 30 overs. They had eight wickets in hand.It should be not too much to ask to score a boundary every over from 40th over.

 

There is a downside of Rohit Sharma's batting if he gets out after consuming lot of deliveries but we simply don't have any alternative for him. scoring 100 plus in last ten is a norm and they scored 80 odd due to Jadhav's last over magic.

 

 

Not 10 , but definitely not less than 6 . It’s so freakin easy to score 6+ in power plays these days . Pak fans are calling imam for his 100 yesterday , why are we ok with similar approach ? 

No 100 in last 10 is ideal , but doesn’t happen as often as you think it does .  The whole approach of saving your wicket for slog overs is so 90s and is going to cost us in big matches 

[prudent_kreeda]

41 minutes ago, zen said:

If it is required to get practical about scoring quicky in PP, it might not be a bad idea to get in a more aggressive opener like Shaw/Gill/Agarwal/...., or get someone like Pandya or Jadhav to do what Kalu did for SL in 96

 

If the openers bat the way they do and are able to recover, it is great. The issue is if they get out after wasting the balls and then Rayudu, Dhoni and company will waste more balls .... If we play steady openers, we need more aggressive batsmen at 4, 5 and 6 

    As i see more and more of Shaw's batting , i get a feeling that he may surprse many of us with his strike rate in one dayers as  opener. He is a BOUNDARY HITTER .. 

 BTW ..  this is all for post WC .

 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, jusarrived said:

I get some of the criticism Dhoni gets , no denying he has to do better but I really don’t see how he’s the root cause of all problems . As bad as we think our middle order is the top order more often scores only soft runs . We are ok with the openers settling in for 30 overs before they take some risks , but some how the middle order guys are expected to come in and hit out from word go ? 

The only team which scores 350 with ease is England and some of these guys should watch how they pace their innings . Without a wicket lost Eng would be close to 200 in 25 . 

I don't think that is the case with England, their openers score faster but they have license to go hard from ball one .How many runs have their middle order scored and India middle order scored in last 24 months.

[neel roy]

Dont forget India is hedging the their bets. I ll take 110 / 1 in 20 overs anyday than 145/4. Its about resources. India dontnhave effective resources at the end. The CT Final could have been won if India would have played first 10 overs for 45 runs without a wicket. The slam bang worked when Sehwag was there but since he isnt its the next best formula available..

[Tendulkar1996]

We need to get rid of rayudu asap with gill,and have pant on standby.

The reason england can bat the way they do is they bat till 10,so everyone throws their bat around.On flat wkts their batting strategy is excellent but if pitch does anything they can collapse.Indian bowling is much better and works on almost all pitches.We cant replicate english batting strategy as we dont have the players for it and have a long tail.Best we can do is pant and gill -rayudud out.Dhoni is unfortunate case of swallowing the bitter pill.Pandya at 7 will increase our power hitting somewhat.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Tendulkar1996

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Not 10 , but definitely not less than 6 . It’s so freakin easy to score 6+ in power plays these days . Pak fans are calling imam for his 100 yesterday , why are we ok with similar approach ? 

No 100 in last 10 is ideal , but doesn’t happen as often as you think it does .  The whole approach of saving your wicket for slog overs is so 90s and is going to cost us in big matches 

I don't think they are saving wickets for slog overs. Rohit is only culprit, Dhawan and Kohli don't waste too many deliveries.Rohit is incapable of doing better as his batting is built on scoring boundaries and lot of dot balls.

 

Problem is Rohit is the only guy in this team who is capable of top gear.

[Nikola]

It depends even if rohit plays with 100+ strike rate and makes quick fire 50 - 60 & gets out will that really help much? Dhawan do play with 90+ strike rate most of time but he can't convert the score. It's all about playing safe cricket by top 3 as they know if they go middle order is really weak to win us the match.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Nikola

[bahubali]

59 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Nobody's saying that the top order should bat like Afridi on hashish.  But they need to try and improve their production by 10-15%.  Increasing momentum while managing risk is not something that you can just flip a switch when you decide to.  It takes dozens of games to practice and incorporate into your batting method.  

 

Besides, there's always grandpa to tuk-tuk and "rebuild" if we need to.  

 

If it were up to me, I would have had Rishabh Pant or KLPD open, with license to attack, along with Dhawan, pushing Rohit to #3 and Virat to #4.   If Rohit can give up opening and bat in the middle order for Ambanis, he can certainly do it for Indian team.  

 

But making these changes means Virat gets fewer chances to rack up those big scores in meaningless games that have made him the "star" he is today. Same for Rohit.  Why would Bunty's 2 "ballerz" give up the cushy gigs they have right now just so that the team can improve its win% from 75 to 85%, increase WC winning chances by 10-20%?  As it is, even with being selfish, Indian team's chances are pretty damn good.    And all the blame and anger is directed at Greybeard, Rayudu etc.  

 

Why ruin a good gig when you don't have to.  

The only thing good abt our batting is top3. So what everyone saying is to overcome the incompetency of Rayadu and Dhoni top order should bat fast. I mean we were 172 after 30 and typically expectation is it should be doubke by 50 over. So let's first discuss middle order sloths and how to get rid of them most issues ll be sorted out then and there.

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, neel roy said:

Dont forget India is hedging the their bets. I ll take 110 / 1 in 20 overs anyday than 145/4. Its about resources. India dontnhave effective resources at the end. 

ITs a bad bet though.  Always gambling that one of the openers will "catch up" after they are satisfied with their personal score.  Its a better more safer bet to not assume that they will, and maintain a decent team scoring rate so that even if they fall after scoring 40-odd or 60-odd, the next batsmen aren't forced to tee off from ball 1 to keep the team's chances of putting up a strong score alive.  

 

And its a false choice of 145/4 and 110/1 - I'd take 135/2 in 20, each and every single game over 95/0.   We do have the likes of Virat and Dhoni, who can be relied upon to "rebuild" on a consistent basis.  I'd happily sacrifice 2 out of Shikhar, Rohit and Rishabh/KLPD if it meant that the team was +20 at the end of 20 overs - in terms of runs vs balls - as opposed to being minus 20, every damn time. 

 

Team has 300 balls to bat in an ODI.  If you want to finish the innings at +50 or more, you can't afford to be at -25 at the half-way mark.  Especially when the top order is given the opportunity to bat with only 3 boundary fielders in the 1st 60 balls.   

 

Its a bullshit excuse to claim we don't have batting resources.  Even Rayu-dud, as limited as he is, can probably contribute a decent 70 80 runs at 85+SR, if it comes to that.  

 

Our SELFISH top order gluttonously feeds and eats up ALL the extra deliveries to "get their eye in" in the name of "giving the team a start'".  Consistently putting the middle order in situations where the odds are against them.  

 

 

 

 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Nobody's saying that the top order should bat like Afridi on hashish.  But they need to try and improve their production by 10-15%.  Increasing momentum while managing risk is not something that you can just flip a switch when you decide to.  It takes dozens of games to practice and incorporate into your batting method.  

 

Besides, there's always grandpa to tuk-tuk and "rebuild" if we need to.  

 

If it were up to me, I would have had Rishabh Pant or KLPD open, with license to attack, along with Dhawan, pushing Rohit to #3 and Virat to #4.   If Rohit can give up opening and bat in the middle order for Ambanis, he can certainly do it for Indian team.  

 

But making these changes means Virat gets fewer chances to rack up those big scores in meaningless games that have made him the "star" he is today. Same for Rohit.  Why would Bunty's 2 "ballerz" give up the cushy gigs they have right now just so that the team can improve its win% from 75 to 85%, increase WC winning chances by 10-20%?  As it is, even with being selfish, Indian team's chances are pretty damn good.    And all the blame and anger is directed at Greybeard, Rayudu etc.  

 

Why ruin a good gig when you don't have to.  

Right you want to ruin one good thing which this team  has and destroy it.

[prudent_kreeda]

6 rpo at 30 overs is just fine . I think they were 170+. 

Its the damn middle order which needs to be held responsible 

[sandeep]

Just now, bahubali said:

The only thing good abt our batting is top3. So what everyone saying is to overcome the incompetency of Rayadu and Dhoni top order should bat fast. I mean we were 172 after 30 and typically expectation is it should be doubke by 50 over. So let's first discuss middle order sloths and how to get rid of them most issues ll be sorted out then and there.

This is not really true - IIRC statistics show that the score is usually doubled around the 27 over mark, not the 30th.  

 

And its a question of simple math - Top order wants to eat 180 balls  - 60% of the deliveries, to score less than 50% of the eventual total, and you still want to blame the middle order.  Yes, sometimes it IS the middle order that's responsible.  But a lot of times the top order digs the team into an unnecessary hole, and they never get called out on it.  

 

Because the fans and media are "analysing" cricket at a basic ignorant level.  Banjo, chewtiya bana rahe hai sabko. 

 

In the immortal words of the Pakistani aunty - Yeh bik gayi hai gormint!

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Right you want to ruin one good thing which this team  has and destroy it.

Haan Bhai, eating 200 balls scoring at sub-par scoring rate is top order ke baap ki jaagir.  Sorry, Bunty Sajdeh ki jaagir.

[bahubali]

1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

So we dint get to 350 today cos Dhoni scored only 48 of 33 or is it cos we score at 5 rpo in first 15 ? 

 

 

Did you saw match bloddy due to small boundary and drop catches and edges he hits 2 4s. The only one in entire match he connected it went for 6 in 49 the over . In 44 the and 46th overs he played 4 and 3 dot balls. There were no any boundary between 42- 46 the over. Imran who the hell play dot balls between 45 to 50 overs. If it's not for Jadhav firework and had Rayadu survived with dhoni for few more over Jamanat jabt ho jati thi apni.

[Nonbeliever]

When kohli came our average was almost 6.  When he got out our average was same. 

He played half of the deliveries.

If worlds best batsman is playing at such strike rate  how you can blame raydu who was scoring at the same rate.  Sometime kohli gets away just because of his stature.