MSK Prasad declares the identification of 15 bowlers for the future

[kubrickian]

Only bowlers who consistently clock 145+ and can hit 150 fairly regularly through most of their spells should be considered fast. There are not a lot currently around. They list some bowlers as fast too liberally. Starc is one such bowler. Umesh used to average 145+ earlier but has dropped a bit of pace recently and now mostly averages around 140, though he is lot more consistent now. So its fair he is listed as fast-medium.

 

Also there could be instances where a bowler could start out bowling fast(clock 145+ on average) and they could mention he is a fast bowler but could slow down later and become fast-medium or medium pace but they couldnt care to edit the page.

 

But I can understand how some fans would take issue. Some bowlers like Shane Watson, Vernon Philander, Trent Boult are listed as fast medium and they are nowhere as quick as Umesh. They are medium pace at best.

Edited April 7, 2017 by kubrickian

[kira]

18 hours ago, Stumped said:

 

In both cases I'd personally class them both as medium-fast.

Then you would be classified as the most ignorant and clueless cricket fan, not a single english bowler is in the league of umesh as far as speed is concerned 

[kira]

18 hours ago, express bowling said:

Labels do not matter as long as a bowler is playing. People can actually see how quick he is.

 

It starts to matter when a pacer retires and the younger generation, who have never seen him, are discussing him. 

 

Some posters were discussing about Srinath in a foreign forum and they were saying that, as they have never seen him, they will consider the espncricinfo classification as correct.... and he was fast medium. And that is not the correct impression about Srinath's pace.

Absolutely spot on 

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, kubrickian said:

Only bowlers who consistently clock 145+ and can hit 150 fairly regularly through most of their spells should be considered fast. There are not a lot currently around. They list some bowlers as fast too liberally. Starc is one such bowler.

Those are express bowlers.....with fastest deliveries of 150 k + almost every match with lots of 145 k + deliveries in every spell. 

 

Fast bowlers are those who bowl fastest deliveries of 145 k + every match with lots of 140 k + deliveries in every spell.

 

Among bowlers with longish careers, we have not had more than 5 or 6 express bowlers in the history of test cricket....and a few more in LOIs.

Edited April 8, 2017 by express bowling

[gakgupta]

looks like the topic is diverted....do we have the list??

 

BTW, this is very very good move and first of it's kind by BCCI

 

MSK is doing very good job

[kira]

2 minutes ago, Stumped said:

I'm ignorant because I'd classify James Faulkner and Colin de Grandhomme as medium fast? Not sure I'm the ignorant one here.

 

In terms of players in the England setup right now Mills is obviously quicker than him albeit only playing one format, Mark Wood (who is more or less back to full fitness if anyone was wondering) matches him for pace whilst someone like Woakes (who has really upped his pace in the last couple of years) is obviously a bit slower coming in a couple of kmph behind on average.

lol mills, wood? Talk about them when the start playing test cricket regularly like umesh, I knew you would name these nobodies

 

Also I am not concerned about you classifying faulkner or colin, I specifically questioned you labelling umesh as medium fast 

[kira]

2 minutes ago, Stumped said:

Yet as I said, they both match and beat him for pace and are English bowlers, exactly your criteria.

Nope, I said no english pacer is in the league of umesh as far as speed is concerned, to match or beat umesh in speed your english nobodies have to first play test cricket regularly and bowl long spells maintaining high pace, bowling 4-5 overs at high pace means nothing

 

Quote

 

Then why did you quote the post where I answer a question about the pace of Faulkner and de Grandhomme labeling them both as medium-fast? Alternatively why didn't you quote the post where I labelled Umesh as fast-medium borderline fast...?

 

That post was in context of the conversation you were having about umesh, wasn't it?  Whether I quoted the right post or not, at least now you know what I am talking about, so quite wasting my time with these rubbish statements.

 

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Now I do wonder if the ignorant one is here is possibly the person who tried to jump into a conversation spanning multiple posts after reading half a post and then labeling someone 'ignorant and clueless' even though they couldn't even read that half a post correctly...

 

Yes you are ignorant and bloody clueless, since you did label umesh as medium fast, didn't you?

[Rightarmfast]

13 hours ago, urnotserious said:

Yadav's average is faster than Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, even Waqar and many others that were known to be out and out fast bowlers. Not sure what you mean when you say that his classification of a fast bowler is inaccurate. 

Imran Khan was never fast. At his fastest, he was the same pace as Ajit Agarkar. Ajit used to hit 147 when bowling at his quickest. not sure if Imran used to reach 147, but he would bowl at around 140-145 when he was at his peak.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Rightarmfast

[fineleg]

7 hours ago, gakgupta said:

looks like the topic is diverted....do we have the list??

 

 

Any answer to this? Is there a list that is available?

Edited April 8, 2017 by fineleg

[Vilander]

19 hours ago, Stumped said:

I'm ignorant and clueless because I'd classify James Faulkner and Colin de Grandhomme as medium fast? Not sure I'm the ignorant or clueless one here.

 

In terms of players in the England setup right now Mills is obviously quicker than him albeit only playing one format, Mark Wood (who is more or less back to full fitness if anyone was wondering) matches him for pace whilst someone like Woakes (who has really upped his pace in the last couple of years) is obviously a bit slower coming in a couple of kmph behind on average.

Ahh ahj nope sorry. Show me one English bowler who bowls 145+ in a test match pls and not one or two deliveries but spells with stock balls that fast. You have none

[express bowling]

34 minutes ago, Stumped said:

Well given no one except Australia do it's not exactly the easiest of criteria.

The original point we started discussing was  whether Umesh deserves to be classified as " fast "   ?   As some other  seamers of similar pace or even lesser pace in test matches, like  Amir, Steyn, Morkel, Rabada etc.   are classified as " fast " then why not Umesh  ?  There has to be uniformity in classification.

 

What do you have to say about this point  ?

 

Quote

What we do have is a good selection of bowlers of a higher quality than Yadav though which I've got to admit is slightly more satisfying than having one in test matches who is quicker.

 

Regarding test matches, England has some good seamers for non-Asian pitches.  India has a better group of pacers for Asian pitches.

 

I like England's seam attack for tests while playing outside Asia but Indian quicks are also improving  leaps and bounds under Kohli-Kumble and  the current bunch's  present ability is  quite good too.      : )

Edited April 9, 2017 by express bowling

[kira]

18 minutes ago, Stumped said:

Well given no one except Australia do it's not exactly the easiest of criteria.

 

What we do have is a good selection of bowlers of a higher quality than Yadav though which I've got to admit is slightly more satisfying than having one in test matches who is quicker.

Higher quality? lol clouderson barely performs without clouds, his away average is 35 and he plays in the most seamer friendly conditions in the world at home unlike umesh and broad  averages 54 in India and 66 in sri lanka, if Broad had to play most of his cricket in asian conditions like umesh then he wouldn't even have an international career or even a domestic career . 

 

 

[Vijy]

On 4/9/2017 at 4:29 AM, express bowling said:

The original point we started discussing was  whether Umesh deserves to be classified as " fast "   ?   As some other  seamers of similar pace or even lesser pace in test matches, like  Amir, Steyn, Morkel, Rabada etc.   are classified as " fast " then why not Umesh  ?  There has to be uniformity in classification.

 

What do you have to say about this point  ?

 

 

Regarding test matches, England has some good seamers for non-Asian pitches.  India has a better group of pacers for Asian pitches.

 

I like England's seam attack for tests while playing outside Asia but Indian quicks are also improving  leaps and bounds under Kohli-Kumble and  the current bunch's  present ability is  quite good too.      : )

In his first few years, yes. Later, perhaps slightly below fast. Having said that, I agree with all previous posters who have pointed out that the speed classification is very biased. Amarnath is also wrongly classified - he was slower than most spinners I have ever seen, yet he is called "medium" by many.

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

In his first few years, yes. Later, perhaps slightly below fast.

Even in the last 1 year, in almost EVERY test match he has played..... Umesh had bowled his fastest ball around 148 k or 147 k.....and his average speed was around the 140 k mark. 

 

That is very fast for test matches where most pacers bowl slower than that. If that is not classified as fast then Starc is the only fast bowler around.

[NareshK]

Umesh, Shami, Bumrah, Varun Aaron, Ishant are all fast bowlers. Period. Anybody who can bowl 145+ is a fast bowler. It doesnt matter what Crapinfo or anyone else thinks. I have seen bowlers who are much slower listed as fast bowlers. Their classification is not credible.

[vishalvirsingh]

On 4/7/2017 at 11:00 AM, tweaker said:

The 15 pacers include 5 left armer

Where you got this info

[Vijy]

On 6/25/2017 at 1:54 AM, express bowling said:

Even in the last 1 year, in almost EVERY test match he has played..... Umesh had bowled his fastest ball around 148 k or 147 k.....and his average speed was around the 140 k mark. 

 

That is very fast for test matches where most pacers bowl slower than that. If that is not classified as fast then Starc is the only fast bowler around.

This is possibly true (apart from Atul Sharma - the only superfast bowler around).