BCCI announces India squad for Champions Trophy 2017

[King Tendulkar]

2 hours ago, beetle said:

Yeah but form is form.A player woefully out of form for thecentire tournament is unlikely to gain it just because format or place changes.

 

A big tournament is not a place wherevyou give them chance to get back to form.

Kohli in ipl is woefully out of form . Jadhav as well in ipl.  But those two superb in odis for india . Drop them ?

 

you need to look at how guys play for india mostly not how they do in ipl . Yes players out of form for india who else sucking in domestic cricket 

 

you can't throw in kids who never played for india 

[King Tendulkar]

1 hour ago, BCCI said:

Last CT,we had an absolutely new opening pair with Dhawan not very experienced,Karthik in the middle order,Bhuvi who made his debut earlier that year was our premier seamer.

 

If selectors had your line of thinking,they would have gone with Veeru -Gauti at the top,Yuvi in the middle and Zak spearheading the attack.

They those players you mentioned had played for india that same year . No one was brought in to make their debut in a big tournament . Look at jadhav he played some before this ct so that's ok . But you can't throw in pant or anyone else to debut in a tournament . Sorry that's bonkers 

 

what you can criticise is that odi series before a pant was not played so would be ready for ct 

 

after this ct . Selectors need to debut some hot talents and get them ready for World Cup 

 

facts are yuvraj batted well in last odi series as an example so they pick him 

[beetle]

7 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

Kohli in ipl is woefully out of form . Jadhav as well in ipl.  But those two superb in odis for india . Drop them ?

 

you need to look at how guys play for india mostly not how they do in ipl . Yes players out of form for india who else sucking in domestic cricket 

 

you can't throw in kids who never played for india 

Who is asking to throw all kids ?

Just one or two with some in form ...players whether new or old.

Can't have half the batting out of form.

 

Thankfully Rohit and Dhawan seem to be getting their form back.

Rahane/ yuvi needed to be dropped for Pant/raina/Uttapa...

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by beetle

[BCCI]

2 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

They those players you mentioned had played for india that same year . No one was brought in to make their debut in a big tournament . Look at jadhav he played some before this ct so that's ok . But you can't throw in pant or anyone else to debut in a tournament . Sorry that's bonkers 

 

what you can criticise is that odi series before a pant was not played so would be ready for ct 

 

after this ct . Selectors need to debut some hot talents and get them ready for World Cup 

 

facts are yuvraj batted well in last odi series as an example so they pick him 

There was no harm in picking the likes of Pant and Kuldeep in the lineup,they are no noobs as well,both have made their debut for India in different formats.Cant wait to see our openers dawdle along in the powerplay while the likes of Roy,Warner and Dekock blaze away.

[StriKe]

59 minutes ago, beetle said:

Who is asking to throw all kids ?

Just one or two with some in form ...players whether new or old.

Can't have half the batting out of form.

 

Thankfully Rohit and Dhawan seem to be getting their form back.

Rahane/ yuvi needed to be dropped for Pant/raina/Uttapa...

 

 

 

Both are around 30 years of age, can still play but if selectors may or may not pick them again for next LOI series.

So there is no point in picking Raina and Uthappa for CT17 and dropping them later.

Pandya/Jadhav and Kuldeep(Should be picked) they could learn for CT tourney and use them to build squad for WC19.

 

Raina should be picked for meaningless T20 bilateral series.

[Sidhoni]

3 hours ago, StriKe said:

Rahane is backup for Dhawan/Rohit

Pant is backup for Dhoni(But on standy-by with visa processing being done)

What about Karthik?

[StriKe]

31 minutes ago, Sidhoni said:

What about Karthik?

Mostly for any middle-order batsmen  

[Khota]

22 hours ago, bleaf27 said:

1.  Many people here agree and the selection committee stated that IPL performances do not matter.  If we are picking teams based on IPL performance then Gambhir has been doing better than Rohit.    Also,   Rohit is coming off an injury .  Isn't it protocol for anyone coming off an injury to prove themselves again rather than status quo to come in the team for a quota ?    and if IPL counts - then Gambhir has a stronger case.
2.  You are bringing performance of Dhawan from 2013 - 4 years ago ?  Really ?   Sachin scored in 2011 - let's bring him in the team as well.   Dhawan has been quite bad in 2016 throughout - In domestic and international circuit both.   
3.  Gambhir makes a case based on  Duleep Trophy performance in 2016 ,  his experience , his IPL performance and his ability to play big innings in important games.    It is multi factorial .

Agree with all three points.

[vishalvirsingh]

Let's support the team.

 

I have my doubts on UV and dhoni.

Their batting is bit suspect

 

[mishra]

7 hours ago, beetle said:

Who is asking to throw all kids ?

Just one or two with some in form ...players whether new or old.

Can't have half the batting out of form.

 

Thankfully Rohit and Dhawan seem to be getting their form back.

Rahane/ yuvi needed to be dropped for Pant/raina/Uttapa...

 

 

 

Pant/raina/Uttapa and Gambhir make the case.

Also, English wickets we are going to vbat on will be pure phatta. Now a days most wickets here are prepared to score 350+-. We should be exclusively looking for batting bullies but I have a feeling that Rahane may just be needed when condition is windy and overcast or if we play against England they may do last minute swap of the phatta track with a grass one.

So Rahane's selection is just a insurance policy. We may not get anything at all in return

 

[sandeep]

On 5/9/2017 at 9:35 AM, bleaf27 said:

1.  Many people here agree and the selection committee stated that IPL performances do not matter.  If we are picking teams based on IPL performance then Gambhir has been doing better than Rohit.    Also,   Rohit is coming off an injury .  Isn't it protocol for anyone coming off an injury to prove themselves again rather than status quo to come in the team for a quota ?    and if IPL counts - then Gambhir has a stronger case.
2.  You are bringing performance of Dhawan from 2013 - 4 years ago ?  Really ?   Sachin scored in 2011 - let's bring him in the team as well.   Dhawan has been quite bad in 2016 throughout - In domestic and international circuit both.   
3.  Gambhir makes a case based on  Duleep Trophy performance in 2016 ,  his experience , his IPL performance and his ability to play big innings in important games.    It is multi factorial .

Rohit is the incumbent opener who has done the job well, and apart from his injury, has shown no indication of declining from the 'prime' level of his abilities.   You don't drop a key player because he got injured - especially if he demonstrates match-fitness and a bit of form.   While I'm no huge fan of Talunt sharma - as his resident ICF fanboy will testify - and I pin the blame largely on him for India's lackluster RR in the 1st 10 overs of ODIs, he's a proven ODI opener who deserves his spot.   Gambhir is a player well past his prime.   There is simply no comparison.

 

On Dhawan, looks like you have forgotten, or intentionally chose to overlook his performances in Australia in 2015 - Aus tour as well as WC.  No need to go back to 2013.   And given that KL Rahul is injured, and the 3rd opener options are the likes of Rahane, or an unproven Pant/Samson - there is an argument for him being selected as well.   Sure, there's one for going for youth in the form of Samson/Pant, but your comparison of a retired Sachin is complete balderdash.

 

Gambhir < Dhawan < Rohit - that's just the plain and simple fact.   Gambhir is a quality T20 captain and strategist, but as a batsman he has been playing supporting roles, riding the coat tails of other batsmen.  Dhawan for all his flaws, is still a better bet against quality pace as of this point - Unfortunately for Gambo, his aging reflexes are clearly on show every game.   No wonder he's changed his stance into a pronounced mid-wicket facing squat, like Chanderpaul.   

[sandeep]

43 minutes ago, mishra said:

Pant/raina/Uttapa and Gambhir make the case.

Also, English wickets we are going to vbat on will be pure phatta. Now a days most wickets here are prepared to score 350+-. We should be exclusively looking for batting bullies but I have a feeling that Rahane may just be needed when condition is windy and overcast or if we play against England they may do last minute swap of the phatta track with a grass one.

So Rahane's selection is just a insurance policy. We may not get anything at all in return

 

Rahul's injury and Pant/Samson's lack of experience worked out for Rahane.  I would have rather selected Samson instead of him - We already had Manish Pandey in the squad as the 'steady' bat option.   

[mishra]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Rahul's injury and Pant/Samson's lack of experience worked out for Rahane.  I would have rather selected Samson instead of him - We already had Manish Pandey in the squad as the 'steady' bat option.   

Samson struggles far too much to my liking against spin. But he could have been a option. Our squad is very decent and capable of reaching final if we take out Yuvi. With Yuvi, We may make it to semis

[sandeep]

21 minutes ago, mishra said:

Samson struggles far too much to my liking against spin. But he could have been a option. Our squad is very decent and capable of reaching final if we take out Yuvi. With Yuvi, We may make it to semis

Not saying Samson's the finished product, but to me, he appears to be a better bet for ODIs than pant, given their batting techniques and styles.   Pant is more of an immediate fit in our current lineup, because we have more than enough 'steady' bats, and could use an infusion of thump.  But Samson is more likely to fill that ODI opener spot long-term once Dhawan's decline really begins in earnest.

[King Tendulkar]

Look if this was a squad for odi series can understand points 

 

but for major tournament no place for guys to debut . Need to look at Indian games and performances . I would even pick dhoni over pant . As no place for pant to debut . 

 

After ct over then next squad some new guys come in. 

[Lord]

15 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

Look if this was a squad for odi series can understand points 

 

but for major tournament no place for guys to debut . Need to look at Indian games and performances . I would even pick dhoni over pant . As no place for pant to debut . 

 

After ct over then next squad some new guys come in. 

Last CT Dhawan debuted I think

 

ended up MoS

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

Last CT Dhawan debuted I think

 

ended up MoS

Dhawan debuted well before CT.   I watched him play for India against West Indies in Trinidad 2011, and that wasn't his debut.

[Vk1]

I have a feeling that msk prasad and team have gone by conventional English pitches notion where the ball swings and seams even in Odis. Guess they haven't seen jos Butler or Jason Roy or Hales heroics in the last two years especially the marquee series against kiwis 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Vk1

[bleaf27]

8 hours ago, sandeep said:

Rohit is the incumbent opener who has done the job well, and apart from his injury, has shown no indication of declining from the 'prime' level of his abilities.   You don't drop a key player because he got injured - especially if he demonstrates match-fitness and a bit of form.   While I'm no huge fan of Talunt sharma - as his resident ICF fanboy will testify - and I pin the blame largely on him for India's lackluster RR in the 1st 10 overs of ODIs, he's a proven ODI opener who deserves his spot.   Gambhir is a player well past his prime.   There is simply no comparison.

 

On Dhawan, looks like you have forgotten, or intentionally chose to overlook his performances in Australia in 2015 - Aus tour as well as WC.  No need to go back to 2013.   And given that KL Rahul is injured, and the 3rd opener options are the likes of Rahane, or an unproven Pant/Samson - there is an argument for him being selected as well.   Sure, there's one for going for youth in the form of Samson/Pant, but your comparison of a retired Sachin is complete balderdash.

 

Gambhir < Dhawan < Rohit - that's just the plain and simple fact.   Gambhir is a quality T20 captain and strategist, but as a batsman he has been playing supporting roles, riding the coat tails of other batsmen.  Dhawan for all his flaws, is still a better bet against quality pace as of this point - Unfortunately for Gambo, his aging reflexes are clearly on show every game.   No wonder he's changed his stance into a pronounced mid-wicket facing squat, like Chanderpaul.   

I'd disagree with most of somewhat half of what you've said so I'd like to break down your argyment

 

1. Rohit is not an incumbent opener  -  In India atleast , If he had been playing for Pakistan wherei there is a serious dearth for talent then sure I can see Rohit walkign into sde after a injury without proving himself.  But post injury - No player should be given a status quo for a reserved seat to just walk in.  It's best to keep the sports away from a quota system.  He had been doing well but you just do not let a player walk into the side especially going into an important international tournament without proving your form .  Rohit is talented but it's quite notorious for being playing lazy and willpower would outdo skill any given day.   Jus like Tendulkar was past his prime or Dhoni is getting older now,   Gambhir may be past the prime age for a cricketer but then again what is prime ? Nehra at close to 38 or so still brings in more experience and ability to win big games than Ishant Sharma.   If Yuvi can be selected in the side ,  I do not see the reason of being past prime as a reason for Gambhir
2. In 2016 Dhawan has been relatively quiet.   Given that KL Rahul is injured ,  I would be going in for Gambhir over Dhawan

 

Again this is quite subjective,  You may view Dhawan better than Gambhit but I don't see it that way.  I find Gambhir a much more committed and complete player than Dhawan and atleast for CT could have been a better choice.   He's done quite well in this IPL and bring in the level of playing a mature innings that Dhawan rarely shows.   Gambhir is playing Southpaw more so because of keeping the ability to counter the bouncers which Ganguly struggled with because of his stance .

[sandeep]

12 hours ago, bleaf27 said:

I'd disagree with most of somewhat half of what you've said so I'd like to break down your argyment

 

1. Rohit is not an incumbent opener  -  In India atleast , If he had been playing for Pakistan wherei there is a serious dearth for talent then sure I can see Rohit walkign into sde after a injury without proving himself.  But post injury - No player should be given a status quo for a reserved seat to just walk in.  It's best to keep the sports away from a quota system.  He had been doing well but you just do not let a player walk into the side especially going into an important international tournament without proving your form .  Rohit is talented but it's quite notorious for being playing lazy and willpower would outdo skill any given day.   Jus like Tendulkar was past his prime or Dhoni is getting older now,   Gambhir may be past the prime age for a cricketer but then again what is prime ? Nehra at close to 38 or so still brings in more experience and ability to win big games than Ishant Sharma.   If Yuvi can be selected in the side ,  I do not see the reason of being past prime as a reason for Gambhir
2. In 2016 Dhawan has been relatively quiet.   Given that KL Rahul is injured ,  I would be going in for Gambhir over Dhawan

 

Again this is quite subjective,  You may view Dhawan better than Gambhit but I don't see it that way.  I find Gambhir a much more committed and complete player than Dhawan and atleast for CT could have been a better choice.   He's done quite well in this IPL and bring in the level of playing a mature innings that Dhawan rarely shows.   Gambhir is playing Southpaw more so because of keeping the ability to counter the bouncers which Ganguly struggled with because of his stance .

Of course Rohit is an incumbent opener.  And that's not a quota - its performance driven.  Go check the ODI opener stats across all teams in the last few years - he will be up there in the top 3 openers in the world.  No matter how you slice the stats.   And I agree - there shouldn't be 'quota' system to select players.  But you need to realize that we don't want our team to set a precedent where a good player loses his spot simply because he got injured while playing for the team - such a culture will produce players who put self before team - not exactly the type of culture you want to incentivize.  You want players who believe that they will be protected if they get injured playing for the team cause, and will get rewarded for playing self-lessly.    You keep throwing words like "lazy", and these are all subjective.   Rohit frustrates me as well, but try and be objective, rise above your personal feelings about him as a player, and you will start realizing that he has actually been world-class as ODI opener for India in the last few years.   That's not to say he's flawless - he's frustratingly slow starting off the blocks.  And needs to improve that, but to say that he doesn't deserve being selected if fit and in decent form - is the opposite of being "objective".

 

 

On Dhawan, and the comparison to Gambhir - why so ga-ga over Gambhir?  As a matter of non-subjective fact, both players play the same role for their franchise - the steady top order bat - not the guy that attacks, but the guy that holds one end up and lays the platform.  And the IPL 2017 numbers objectively show that Dhawan has actually outperformed Gambhir - in total runs as well as strike rate.  Again, its a case of your perception outweighing the facts.  Go check Dhawan's stats in the last 5 ODIs he has played, and then come back and try to tell me, that he's not good enough.   And as far as playing bounce is concerned - you really need to examine both players game closely - Dhawan's technique actually shines on bouncier tracks where the ball gets higher up into his hitting arc - and Gambo's game was never equipped to handle bounce well.