Jimmy Cliff Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I got a culture shock reading @Muloghonto 's older posts in this thread . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said: I got a culture shock reading @Muloghonto 's older posts in this thread . 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Mulo in his anti-chaddi avatar! in Vishnu Purana :- उत्तरं यत्समुद्रस्य: हिमाद्रेश्चैव दक्षिणम् । वर्षं तद् भारतं नाम: भारती यत्र संततिः ।। The country (varṣam) that lies north of the ocean and south of the snowy mountains is called Bhāratam; there dwell the descendants of Bharata." The Sankalpa we recite every day - we say Jambudweepe Bharatavarshe Bharatakhande, , it has always been in our memory that this land is Bharat. Err, there is no inconsistency. Our historical literature uses aryadesh and madhyadesh way more than bharat and I still think bharat, India should be used as Germany, Deutschland or Finland,Suomi etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Dunno about others but 'India' sounds majestic. Stradlater 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, Gollum said: Dunno about others but 'India' sounds majestic. Bharath is 56-inch. Why do tamilians pronounce In-Di-ya as In-The-ya? @velu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Bharath is 56-inch. Why do tamilians pronounce In-Di-ya as In-The-ya? @velu Bongs say Bharot...I don't like the rat/rot part. India so classy Edited March 17, 2020 by Gollum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Bharath is 56-inch. Why do tamilians pronounce In-Di-ya as In-The-ya? @velu in-thi-ya coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said: I got a culture shock reading @Muloghonto 's older posts in this thread . I wasn't aware he was CC - what a blowhard BS artist he was, in his younger days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gollum said: Bongs say Bharot...I don't like the rat/rot part. India so classy Are you judging Bharat based on the meaning of rat/rot in English? If so that is the mindset one needs to move away from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, zen said: Are you judging Bharat based on the meaning of rat/rot in English? If so that is the mindset one needs to move away from Yes, We need to go Mr.=> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Muloghonto said: Err, there is no inconsistency. Our historical literature uses aryadesh and madhyadesh way more than bharat and I still think bharat, India should be used as Germany, Deutschland or Finland,Suomi etc. But, what is mostly used contemporarily now - 22+ languages use Bharat for India. The constitution didn't use Aryavarta/Madhyadesh as it is no longer in use. It says.. "India, that is Bharat shall be a Union of States". It is tough to change now as all others use India, maintain the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Yes, we are discussing the two names in official use - Bharat and India. As mentioned in OP, b/w these two names, currently, India is predominantly used but would like to see Bharat, which is of subcon origin, used predominantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: But, what is mostly used contemporarily now - 22+ languages use Bharat for India. The constitution didn't use Aryavarta/Madhyadesh as it is no longer in use. It says.. "India, that is Bharat shall be a Union of States". It is tough to change now as all others use India, maintain the status quo. i think atleast till our independence , we ( tamils ) refer hindustan/india as bharat(am) .. freedom fighter/poet bharathiyar used bharatam to refer india coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, zen said: Yes, we are discussing the two names in official use - Bharat and India. As mentioned in OP, b/w these two names, currently, India is predominantly used but would like to see Bharat, which is of subcon origin, used predominantly. like japan and nippon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, zen said: Yes, we are discussing the two names in official use - Bharat and India. As mentioned in OP, b/w these two names, currently, India is predominantly used but would like to see Bharat, which is of subcon origin, used predominantly. We are, right. In all local language news, we refer it as Bharat. Bharat ne aaj toss jeeta aur pehli baari mein ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, velu said: like japan and nippon ? Yeah, other examples are Germany - Deutschland, Switzerland - Suisse, Schweiz, .... Spelling variations include Spain - Espana, Italy - Italia, .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: We are, right. In all local language news, we refer it as Bharat. Bharat ne aaj toss jeeta aur pehli baari mein ... Maybe make the switch to Bharat as the name on the cricket kits, jerseys, etc., at the T20 WC Edited March 17, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, zen said: Yes, we are discussing the two names in official use - Bharat and India. As mentioned in OP, b/w these two names, currently, India is predominantly used but would like to see Bharat, which is of subcon origin, used predominantly. I would like to see both used concurrently and predominantly. This is because reality is, bulk majority of Indians who have died, died due to the ‘indian’/‘Hindi’ tag. The tag matters to us or at least it SHOULD matter to us as much as the term ‘JEW’ matters to Jews. Jew is also like ‘ Indian- a tag used by all non Jews ( just like for India it’s usage is mostly from non Indians) ‘and has been used to subjugate them. Their term for themselves is yahudi/yehudi and they use both terms concurrently and dominantly. Heck, they make sure we know them mostly as Jews and are usually surprised when we call them yehudi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Muloghonto said: I would like to see both used concurrently and predominantly. This is because reality is, bulk majority of Indians who have died, died due to the ‘indian’/‘Hindi’ tag. The tag matters to us or at least it SHOULD matter to us as much as the term ‘JEW’ matters to Jews. Jew is also like ‘ Indian- a tag used by all non Jews ( just like for India it’s usage is mostly from non Indians) ‘and has been used to subjugate them. Their term for themselves is yahudi/yehudi and they use both terms concurrently and dominantly. Heck, they make sure we know them mostly as Jews and are usually surprised when we call them yehudi. Currently, India is used predominantly though as we can see at sporting events, intergovernmental meeting, etc. I am not too concerned about what other countries/groups do. As for Jews, note that the the country is called Israel (and its other spelling variants such as Isra'iyl and Yisra'el) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Quote I am not too concerned about what other countries/groups do. As for Jews, note that the the country is called Israel (and its other spelling variants such as Isra'iyl and Yisra'el) I am pointing out to you why the label ‘Indian’ is important to us and why it is more meaningful than Bharat: it is the name used by our oppressors, hindh/hindu/Hindustan is just an Arabized version of India/Indian. It is the name under which millions have doesn’t of genocide, under which we have forged a common national identity in its current avatar and why it unites us as a concept more than Bharatvarsha. and I am using another group in similar position as us - genocided through history and hated by outsiders- Jews- to underscore the point why to oppressed people, the label used by the oppressor matters and even overrides native terminology. i want to be known as an Indian to foreigners and as a bharatiya to my bretheren: just like Jews prefer being Jews to foreigners and Yahudi to their bretheren coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Muloghonto said: I am pointing out to you why the label ‘Indian’ is important to us and why it is more meaningful than Bharat: it is the name used by our oppressors, hindh/hindu/Hindustan is just an Arabized version of India/Indian. It is the name under which millions have doesn’t of genocide, under which we have forged a common national identity in its current avatar and why it unites us as a concept more than Bharatvarsha. and I am using another group in similar position as us - genocided through history and hated by outsiders- Jews- to underscore the point why to oppressed people, the label used by the oppressor matters and even overrides native terminology. i want to be known as an Indian to foreigners and as a bharatiya to my bretheren: just like Jews prefer being Jews to foreigners and Yahudi to their bretheren Buddy, I am not sure on that as for many "India" can also be about British India w/ soldiers working and dying for the British (not Indians) and "Indians" serving British to oppress other "Indians". For e.g. on the orders of Dyer, the people who fired on those protesting at Jallianwala Bagh were "Indians" too working for British "Indian" Army. Probably, no group that took arms to sacrifice itself for the region called itself "Indian" group to the other natives (For convenience, the British may have had an English version with India in the name for them). The Indian National Army that tried to take on British - Subhash Chandra Bose's army - is popularly called "Azad Hind Fauj" by and for the natives (the people who actually care about the land and not look to advertise themselves to foreigners to gain sympathy and/or impress them). Because of WW2, it became unsustainable for the British to hold on to the colonies. Not just India but eventually so many countries gained their independence after that war and years under the British/imperialist forces' flag. Quote and I am using another group in similar position as us - genocided through history and hated by outsiders- Jews- to underscore the point why to oppressed people, the label used by the oppressor matters and even overrides native terminology. i want to be known as an Indian to foreigners and as a bharatiya to my bretheren: just like Jews prefer being Jews to foreigners and Yahudi to their bretheren Note that because of Jewish diaspora , Jews have lived all over Europe since ages (BCE), having to adapt to different cultures and learn different languages Earlier you wrote the below: Quote the whole 'get rid of India, make it Bharat' is a known Pakistani psy-ops against India. It is well known overseas,that Pakistanis want to appropriate the term 'India' for themselves only, on a distorted view that what Alexander called India, was actually Pakistan. Or that India is about Indus valley only. to attack India as a name for us, is to de-legitimize our History. Don't fall for it. Your points appear to be mainly concerned with what is important (or easier) for the foreigners while I am more about what is Bharatiya and reconnecting people back to the land's proud history and culture .... Foreigners can learn how to say Bharat. If they are interested or care, they can learn about its history .... I am rooting for the official name (b/w the two) that originates from Sanskrit, the language of Gods with over 3,000 years of known history and connected to this region! Edited March 18, 2020 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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