Crunch Test Match in South Africa. Pick your bottom 5 of the XI

[kubrickian]

7 minutes ago, putrevus said:

yes they did but India would not be losing 2-0 to Aussies if our late order batting showed some spunk, they lost two unloseable game there.The collapses in two of the last three tests in England where matches were decided after first hour on day 1 you cannot blame bowlers there.

 

Aussies and England series loss I would put blame on batting rather than bowling. You cannot expect bowlers to take 20 wickets on those roads which Aussies series was played and how can you expect bowlers to do anything when your batting folds on first day for 150.

Only SA and NZ is where bowling failed to deliver.IMHO our bowling is never going to our strong point away from subcontinent batting has to make up some of deficiencies.

Our late order batting wont be scoring as much as they do in India because seamers still get a lot of help there. After the batsmen get out, you are more likely to see the end of the innings quite quickly. 

 

Yeah as I said, batting failed a few times but when they did well, they set up the team in winning positions. In first test against SA at Joburg, Indian bowlers failed to get Faf du Plessis and AB De Villers out for more than 2 sessions - end result was a draw which we should have won. 

 

2nd test against New Zealand, Indian bowlers were 5 wickets from winning the test and let McCullum score a whopping 300 to save the game. 

 

In Australia, India was in a great position to win the Brisbane test. They let Mitchell Johnson plunder 80 odd and turned the game around. All games which would have been won by competitive bowlers.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by kubrickian

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, kubrickian said:

Our late order batting wont be scoring as much as they do in India because seamers still get a lot of help there. After the batsmen get out, you are more likely to see the end of the innings quite quickly. 

 

Yeah as I said, batting failed a few times but when they did well, they set up the team in winning positions. In first test against SA at Joburg, Indian bowlers failed to get Faf du Plessis and AB De Villers out for more than 2 sessions - end result was a draw which we should have won. 

 

2nd test against New Zealand, Indian bowlers were 5 wickets from winning the test and let McCullum score a whopping 300 to save the game. 

 

In Australia, India was in a great position to win the Brisbane test. They let Mitchell Johnson plunder 80 odd and turned the game around. All games which should have been won by competitive bowlers.

 

But do you think realistically India had any bowlers in their history who could mop up the tail efficiently away from home.Tail has wagged so many times against Indians I have lost count.So my view is batsmen have to overcome their weaker counter parts.I don't expect  our bowlers to take 20 wickets in every tests so batting has to rise up and draw some matches in order for us to win tests and series.

[kubrickian]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

But do you think realistically India had any bowlers in their history who could mop up the tail efficiently away from home.Tail has wagged so many times against Indians I have lost count.So my view is batsmen have to overcome their weaker counter parts.I don't expect  our bowlers to take 20 wickets in every tests so batting has to rise up and draw some matches in order for us to win tests and series.

I agree but bowlers especially seamers have to deliver if India has any chance of winning tests overseas. Batsmen can only set up games and save games, its the bowlers who need to pick 20 wickets.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Nobody's turning Ash into Kallis - that's why I said Fourth Bowler, not #6.     What I do want to see from our team, is a concerted effort to pick an attack that can take 20 wickets.   

They are making that effort since 2013 even under Dhoni we cannot deny that, but problem is our fast bowlers are not upto sniff when they are asked to carry the load.Playing four bowlers plus Pandya weakens batting unless Pandya turns into capable no 6.

 

If they end losing tosses on juicy pitches  matches will be over in first hour if they have any collpases which is quite possible so playing five bowlers on those pitches is very dangerous.

Edited August 14, 2017 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, kubrickian said:

Doing the same thing over and again and expecting different results is madness. When Ashwin and Jaddu were picked in overseas tours and didnt deliver (including ODIs), why would you want to pick them again ? Wouldnt you try out different options to see how they would fare ? This is the same thing which Dhoni was criticized for when he was captain but now when we have a seamer all arounder and a wrist spinner, both options we lacked last time around we still want to go in with Ash and Jaddu. Hard to understand this logic.

I some what agree with you

We shudnt take both but shud take one and one in form of kuldeep......Ashwin is an intelligent bowler i expect him to learn from his mistakes

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

I have high hopes for Pandya, as you already know.  But I think to start with I still might pick Jaddu ahead of him - Jaddu's usefulness as a test bowler is really under-rated.  His ability to bowl big chunks of tight overs and that too with very little time, helps the rest of the bowling unit in a non-trivial way.  Sure Pandya the batsman > Jaddu with the bat, but Jaddu's bowling impact is more than just his figures, and that, to me, offsets the downgrade on the batting side vis-a-vis Pandya.  

 

Pandya ahead for me to specially ahead of Jaddu 

As a 5th bowler how much of bowling wud be needed, jaddu as a spinner can bowl around 30 overs but we dnt need that we need more of 5th bowler for batting cushion as well 

Now this is were ill keep Shankar as option as he looks a better batsman then pandya n jaddu , even though his 130k bowling will be carted in Sa specially those small grounds . But ill still have him coz i expect Sa to make helpful pitches specially coz we offered them turning mambas last time.

 

Thats were Pandya comes in play as he is better batsman then Jaddu , someone who pulls and hooks well, With SA bowling our lower order wnt last the time so we need someone who can score quick runs . M just worried that he plays with hard hands and will often be caught in slips but still someone ill back to improve by that time . I have seen him Bat on a tough wkt on Aus-A tour and he can bat on tough wkt. 

Now coming to his bowling, any 140k bowler who can hit deck hard and bowls good length will be useful in those conditions. Sa will take him lightly being 5th bowler and that wud be trouble. SA can cart shankar around as 5th bowler and make jaddu look no better then a tailender but Pandya can be more handy then both of them in both areas

 

Due this option of Pandya vs shankar vs jadeja , i think its very imp we carry parthiv patel as well strangely no one talked about him . 

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, putrevus said:

Ashwin has to be first name among spinners until he proves he cannot take any wickets.He is goo enough to bat at no 6 , if pitch is not a green top  I would gamble jadeja over Pandya. Jadeja is making it incredibly hard to drop him anywhere, even in last test it was jadeja who picked up wickets in first innings.

you will pick two spinners in SA or England?

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, putrevus said:

Ashwin has to be first name among spinners until he proves he cannot take any wickets.He is goo enough to bat at no 6 , if pitch is not a green top  I would gamble jadeja over Pandya. Jadeja is making it incredibly hard to drop him anywhere, even in last test it was jadeja who picked up wickets in first innings.

Ashwin has proved that he cannot take wickets outside SC or WI.

[Texan]

6. Ashwin

7. Saha

8. Pandya

9. Bhuvaneshwar

10. Shami

11. Umesh/Shardul/Ideally a left arm pacer

 

If we decide to pick another spinner, I would prefer a wrist-spinner like Kuldeep over Jadeja. 

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, sandeep said:

The old toy might still be great.  But I want that new shiny thing.  It may be great or my be crap, or it may be just about OK, but its bright, shiny and new.  

old boy is a subcontinent champion and has not done anything to inspire confidence in SA or England or NZ.

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, sandeep said:

You are contradicting yourself a bit there - You think Pandya is more likely to take wickets and/or bowl well to be selected ahead of Ash/Jaddu?   

yes, in places like SA, England, NZ, he is more likely to pick wickets. Spinners are just defensive options in those places. 

[cowboysfan]

no way am i picking Pandya.he is totally unproven  in both batting and bowling department,that was his first 1st class hundred!!.If he bowls well in the warm ups then he should be considered.

 

6)Saha

7)jaddu

8)bhuvi

9)Shami

10)Umesh

11)Ishant/new guy

 

SA cant play spin at all.I would be tempted to play Ash if its anything other than a green top.

[Lannister]

I think we need one more genuine pacer beside Shami and Yadav as Kumar won't do much on hard wickets. Ishant Sharma is not an option either, as he's very poor when it comes to taking wickets. We should've tried some new bowlers in our home season and, what happens if something happens to our main bowlers. There is no point in picking up both Kumar and Ishant in our squad. I would rather play 3 spinners than relying on those two, as we will never be able to bowl-out opposition even once let alone twice.

 

This is my bottom 5/back-up options,

4-man attack: Shami, Yadav, Pacer, Ashwin

4-man attack: Shami, Yadav, Kumar (can bat too), Pacer

5-man attack: Shami, Yadav, Pacer, Ashwin, Pandya

5-man attack: Shami, Yadav, Kumar, Kuldeep, Pandya

5-man attack: Shami, Yadav, Ashwin/Jadeja, Kuldeep, Pandya (if it's a spin track)

5-man attack: Shami, Yadav, Kumar, Pacer, Pandya

 

As for squad goes, 8 bowlers and 8 batsmen. 

Bowlers: Shami, Yadav, Ashwin, Jadeja, Kumar, Pandya, Kuldeep, New Pacer

Batsmen: Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Saha, Dhawan, Iyer/Rohit

 

I think this is the best possible team we can go with and we should if we want to win. 

[King Tendulkar]

11 hours ago, sandeep said:

The old toy might still be great.  But I want that new shiny thing.  It may be great or my be crap, or it may be just about OK, but its bright, shiny and new.  

Sums it up perfectly lol

[rkt.india]

56 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

no way am i picking Pandya.he is totally unproven  in both batting and bowling department,that was his first 1st class hundred!!.If he bowls well in the warm ups then he should be considered.

 

6)Saha

7)jaddu

8)bhuvi

9)Shami

10)Umesh

11)Ishant/new guy

 

SA cant play spin at all.I would be tempted to play Ash if its anything other than a green top.

Jaddu an Ashwin both are unproven overseas.

[King Tendulkar]

One thing to note 

 

we must not play two spinners only one

[King Tendulkar]

Ashwin will do well if get run on the board 

 

same with bhaji and Kimble overseas sometimes labelled as only good at home . Then galiticos started piling runs overseas and then suddenly they started taking wickets and winning matches overseas 

 

batting unit clicks then ashwin will be awesome . If sucks like under dhoni years overseas then will struggle 

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

Ashwin will do well if get run on the board 

 

same with bhaji and Kimble overseas sometimes labelled as only good at home . Then galiticos started piling runs overseas and then suddenly they started taking wickets and winning matches overseas 

 

batting unit clicks then ashwin will be awesome . If sucks like under dhoni years overseas then will struggle 

last time, Ashwin played in SA, we barely escaped with a draw due SA's coward batting in the first test after setting a 4th innings target of 458 and Ashwin could not pick a wicket whole day and I dont see any difference in that Ashwin and today's Ashwin. He is still as ineffective he was then on pitches with less help for him. 

[Mosher]

Shami, Umesh, Bhuvi, Pandya and Kuldeep. Shami leading the bowling attack with Umesh, Bhuvi and Kuldeep as supporting  bowlers. I trust this attack to pick 20 wickets and Pandya is also capable of chipping in with wickets. Pandya is an exciting batsman down the order and Bhuvi also has a decent batting technique and can hang around with the bat.

[King Tendulkar]

Shocked at hype guys giving to Kuldeep yadav . Picking him over spinners who been superb and instrumental in our domination over last year 

 

won't do it overseas is mantra . Well let's find out once and for all over next year . Same was said about Kimble and eventually he delivered overseas 

 

our boys get big runs I assure you ashwin will deliver