Alaistair Cook Watch - Has the End begun?

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

cook isn't a champion. he scores well against spin and home, that's about it. if he does badly in all the tests leading up to our tour, he may have left by then.

I have said it elsewhere, will say it again.  It will be a big plus for India if Cook is still opening the batting for England when we tour.  

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Dude anyone with over 10000 runs is a legit champion. Cook may not be black caviar (highest grade) like SRT, Lara, Viv etc but he is definitely red caviar like so many other greats. 

is a bowler with over 400 wkts a legit champion too? if ishant becomes a regular he can get close to it but he's no champion in my book. the same goes for cook. I realize he has been an effective & valuable batsmen for eng, but he's not on the same level as a matchwinner as KP and is not as consistent as root either.

[Gollum]

8 minutes ago, Vijy said:

is a bowler with over 400 wkts a legit champion too? if ishant becomes a regular he can get close to it but he's no champion in my book. the same goes for cook. I realize he has been an effective & valuable batsmen for eng, but he's not on the same level as a matchwinner as KP and is not as consistent as root either.

If Ishant gets the 400 at an average of 30 and plays a pivotal part in winning a series each in Aus and Eng, he is a champion. 

 

Remember Cook averages around 45 playing more than half his matches in UK and not 35 !!!!!!

Edited December 18, 2017 by Gollum

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

If Ishant gets the 400 at an average of 30 and plays a pivotal part in winning a series each in Aus and Eng, he is a champion. 

 

Remember Cook averages around 45 playing more than half his matches in UK and not 35 !!!!!!

home conditions are still home conditions even if they are bowling friendly - trott avgd 50 at home and bell had an avg of 47. Ishant will probably exceed 300 (but not 400), but that doesn't mean much to me.

[New guy]

On 9/11/2017 at 5:17 PM, putrevus said:

I don't think he will stick around like Sachin who just for the sake of some meaningless record stuck around even though he was stinking up every where he played since 2011 world cup.

Sachin averaged 36 the year he retired yet "stinking the place". He hardly played even 6 tests the year he retired. Averaged 78 in 2010 and 48 in 2011. Had one bad year in 2012, same as almost everyone including Cook, Lara, Ponting, Dravid  or any other batsman had. Seeing this gora worship mentality it is easy to see why india was under British rule for so long

Edited December 18, 2017 by New guy

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, New guy said:

Sachin averaged 36 the year he retired yet "stinking the place". He hardly played even 6 tests the year he retired. Averaged 78 in 2010 and 48 in 2011. Had one bad year in 2012, same as almost everyone including Cook, Lara, Ponting, Dravid  or any other batsman had. Seeing this gora worship mentality it is easy to see why india was under British rule for so long

To put that in perspective, IIRC Cook is averaging 36 or so for the last 4 years away from home.  Four years.

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

He will score 400+ runs in 5 tests next year against us with 1/2 100s, mark this post. You can't write off champions so easily and Cook is very gritty. He may look down and out but will battle it out next year, hope our bowlers don't underestimate the Cook threat.

Yeah, nothing feels better than square cutting Ishant Sharma's short ball wide outside off stump at 146 kph. Cook is so eagerly waiting for this feel to come back.

[Vijy]

13 minutes ago, sandeep said:

To put that in perspective, IIRC Cook is averaging 36 or so for the last 4 years away from home.  Four years.

but that's cook's modus operandi. cash in on weak teams and bully the hell out of them (preferably at home). of course he had a few overseas successes but those had good reasons - for instance, when he scored heavily in oz just the 1 time, doherty and beer played the tests (not lyon) and a half-fit bollnger was around (otherwise a good bowler).

[sarcastic]

55 minutes ago, Gollum said:

If Ishant gets the 400 at an average of 30 and plays a pivotal part in winning a series each in Aus and Eng, he is a champion. 

 

Remember Cook averages around 45 playing more than half his matches in UK and not 35 !!!!!!

+1

 

A lot of posters here such as @Vijy do not rate Ishant and have biased opinions on him based on some average statistics. Ishant cannot be judged by his stats alone. When he gets wickets, he gets them in buckets.... That's what makes a champion standout. It is the ability to rip the opposition out when you are on song and give important victories to your team. Ishant may very well do that in the coming overseas leg. 

[Laaloo]

Ishant and champion 

 

 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, Laaloo said:

Ishant and champion 

 

 

Want me to read the list of accomplishments? Again 

[Vijy]

29 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

+1

 

A lot of posters here such as @Vijy do not rate Ishant and have biased opinions on him based on some average statistics. Ishant cannot be judged by his stats alone. When he gets wickets, he gets them in buckets.... That's what makes a champion standout. It is the ability to rip the opposition out when you are on song and give important victories to your team. Ishant may very well do that in the coming overseas leg. 

79 tests is not a small sample size. besides, if everyone who is anti-ishant is "biased", does this mean the pro-ishant camp is full of only unbiased people? like/dislike is ultimately a bias either way.

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

79 tests is not a small sample size. besides, if everyone who is anti-ishant is "biased", does this mean the pro-ishant camp is full of only unbiased people? like/dislike is ultimately a bias either way.

How about rating Ishant on his last 20 tests.   Not saying he's a "champion" but at this point in his career, he's a value-add 3rd pacer, and has done quite decently in away tests over the last couple of years.  

 

Ishant was rushed into international cricket before he was ready for it, and thrust into a lead pacer role when he never really was that good a bowler.   He's no longer as bad a bowler as his historical statistics imply.

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

How about rating Ishant on his last 20 tests.   Not saying he's a "champion" but at this point in his career, he's a value-add 3rd pacer, and has done quite decently in away tests over the last couple of years.  

 

Ishant was rushed into international cricket before he was ready for it, and thrust into a lead pacer role when he never really was that good a bowler.   He's no longer as bad a bowler as his historical statistics imply.

of course he has been a useful and fairly effective bowler in recent times. It's just that he needn't be called a "champion" on account of taking 300 wkts if and when he gets there.

[SUMO]

Cook is only 33, he can still play if he wants to.

He is no ATG but if he is willing to put efforts to get back in form he can set himself up for next ashes at home.

Edited December 19, 2017 by SUMO

[Vijy]

44 minutes ago, SUMO said:

Cook is only 33, he can still play if he wants to.

He is no ATG but if he is willing to put efforts to get back in form he can set himself up for next ashes at home.

he should play if he scores the runs, not just because he wants to. eng selectors have given a very long rope to cook because of his public school status

[diga]

26 minutes ago, Vijy said:

he should play if he scores the runs, not just because he wants to. eng selectors have given a very long rope to cook because of his public school status

Public school.. it's like giving a longer rope to someone from marginalized section of the society in India

[diga]

Cook has played more than 150 tests in 11 years.. that's huge and anybody with more than 40 avg should reach 12000 runs easily

[SUMO]

53 minutes ago, Vijy said:

he should play if he scores the runs, not just because he wants to. eng selectors have given a very long rope to cook because of his public school status

True. But there is TINA factor 

[Vijy]

31 minutes ago, diga said:

Public school.. it's like giving a longer rope to someone from marginalized section of the society in India

"public" school in britain refers to the posh section of the private schools.

7 minutes ago, SUMO said:

True. But there is TINA factor 

True. But Hameed and Stoneman would be worth trying.