Is this start of new trend for Indian cricket team? New low of favoritism.

[NameGoesHere]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Sehwag averages 40 against Aus, SA, England, NZ. How having 3-4 40 averaging batsmen will win you games outside SC?

As the other poster said, it won't make it definite, but it will improve your chances significantly.  You only need one of the three Sehwags to come off.

 

Also if you want to debate me please don't come at me with one liners. This isn't a question and answer session.  You can make make a counter proposal or statement which negates what I have said, and I'll be happy to appreciate it or discuss it.  But I won;t be responding to passive aggressive one liners. 

[NameGoesHere]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

eng and WI are quite good in T20s, esp WI (champions). rahul's record has been mostly compiled against decent T20 teams.

I do not disagree.  But there are arguments to support either side.  You can agree or disagree, but the point of original post was to say it's unfair, if not childish, to accuse Kohli of favouritism, or now (laughably) corruption.  

[Jimmy Cliff]

3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

although he is a despot who indulges in favouritism, I think he also has genuine issues of perception, i.e. mistaking one format for another. hence, kkd who has done decently ipl is suddenly seen as "aggressive" in ODIs and dhawan who has done well in odis but poorly in t20s is also regarded as fast-scoring in all other formats.

Well that would be more believable if at times the likes of KLR were beneficiaries of such mistakes in perception. How come it's always Dhawan, Rohit and Co. who are at the favorable end? As Captain Russell would say in Lagaan "itna bhi nadaan naheen hai!" He is basically running Indian cricket as his fiefdom. Tried to sabotage Pujara's career but was ashamed into picking him and now doing the same with KLR. The less said about the way he treated Pant (who came into the squad with the best SR among Indian batsmen in the IPL) the better.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Well that would be more believable if at times the likes of KLR were beneficiaries of such mistakes in perception. How come it's always Dhawan, Rohit and Co. who are at the favorable end? As Captain Russell would say in Lagaan "itna bhi nadaan naheen hai!" He is basically running Indian cricket as his fiefdom. Tried to sabotage Pujara's career but was ashamed into picking him and now doing the same with KLR. The less said about the way he treated Pant (who came into the squad with the best SR among Indian batsmen in the IPL) the better.

as I mentioned earlier, I am not sure if he's corrupt or inept. I think the truth is a combination of the two, with a bit more ineptness in the mix.

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

I do not disagree.  But there are arguments to support either side.  You can agree or disagree, but the point of original post was to say it's unfair, if not childish, to accuse Kohli of favouritism, or now (laughably) corruption.  

I agree, but the word "corruption" is a vague term. I think some posters probably use it as a stand-in for favouritism. and I think that there is sufficient material to argue that this hypothesis (of favouritism) is worth considering. dropping chepu in the past, playing rahane even when his form was completely shot at home and then not playing him overseas where he could have done better, selecting dhawan ahead of rahul, and dinesh karthik in odis to name a few. none of this stands up in a court in the legal sense of prosecuting kohli, but it certainly shows that he has made bizarre and unaccountable selections at times even if one assumes that kohli has a self-consistent mantra of aggression at all costs.

[rkt.india]

24 minutes ago, Vijy said:

it probably won't. presumably the OP was saiyng that it would increase the chances of winning outside SC compared to having 3-4 dhawans who will probably avg <20 against the same teams in their backyards.

but Dhawan is Sehwag mold batsman according to the poster. he defended Kohli saying he preferred Dhawan because he is Sehwag mold batsman and increases our chances to win overseas. 

[NameGoesHere]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I agree, but the word "corruption" is a vague term. I think some posters probably use it as a stand-in for favouritism. and I think that there is sufficient material to argue that this hypothesis (of favouritism) is worth considering. dropping chepu in the past, playing rahane even when his form was completely shot at home and then not playing him overseas where he could have done better, selecting dhawan ahead of rahul, and dinesh karthik in odis to name a few. none of this stands up in a court in the legal sense of prosecuting kohli, but it certainly shows that he has made bizarre and unaccountable selections at times even if one assumes that kohli has a self-consistent mantra of aggression at all costs.

Let me start with what's there in my OP, and cull it out, since it may have been missed.  I totally disagree with what Kohli is doing. For my money, Rahul should definitely be there, probably Rahane. 

 

As you said, it was also clear to me that he didn't want Pujara in the Test team, and if my impression was correct, it was a shockingly naive, if not stupid play.  Luckily for India, Chepu is still around. 

 

But I'd say that the Chepu case, plus these latest non-selection emerge from Kohli's bias for 'action' and 'offense', nothing more suspicious or conspiratorial.

 

Every captain, everywhere in the world has favourites.  From Bradman to Joe Root to Ganguly to Dhoni. To Kohli.

 

Kohli, as far as I can see, is soon going to get a bloody nose directly as a result of what he's done.  He'll deserve it. But he's not doing it for his own good, he's doing it because he believes he's right.  And hopefully, he'll learn.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, NameGoesHere said:

Let me start with what's there in my OP, and cull it out, since it may have been missed.  I totally disagree with what Kohli is doing. For my money, Rahul should definitely be there, probably Rahane. 

 

As you said, it was also clear to me that he didn't want Pujara in the Test team, and if my impression was correct, it was a shockingly naive, if not stupid play.  Luckily for India, Chepu is still around. 

 

But I'd say that the Chepu case, plus these latest non-selection emerge from Kohli's bias for 'action' and 'offense', nothing more suspicious or conspiratorial.

 

Every captain, everywhere in the world has favourites.  From Bradman to Joe Root to Ganguly to Dhoni. To Kohli.

 

Kohli, as far as I can see, is soon going to get a bloody nose directly as a result of what he's done.  He'll deserve it. But he's not doing it for his own good, he's doing it because he believes he's right.  And hopefully, he'll learn.

I really hope both of these statements will prove to be true. Especially the latter. I'd rather not see another 8-0 drubbing (3-0 in SA and 5-0 in Eng) in my lifetime.

[NameGoesHere]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

but Dhawan is Sehwag mold batsman according to the poster. he defended Kohli saying he preferred Dhawan because he is Sehwag mold batsman and increases our chances to win overseas. 

If this refers t me, then way to misrepresent what I said.

 

At least try and read what I wrote before responding. Let me quote myself and bold out the parts you may have missed.

 

Hence he will prefer Dhawan over KL Rahul, Rohit Sharma over Rahane.  Bumrah over most others.  Kohli wants Sehwag type players  in his Test team -  batting or bowling.

 

You can disagree with Kohli's philosophy (I do).  You can say that ODI batting and bowling isn't the same as Test batting and bowling.  Just because Dhawan, Sharma and Bumrah can dominate ODIs doesn't mean they can be equally offensive in Tests.  Players like Sehwag come once in decades.  You can't take an ODI philosophy to the Test arena.  And so on.

[Jimmy Cliff]

29 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

This isn't a Kohli to KLR comparison. 

 

If we were comparing T20s, then, one could argue that Rahul's averages have been built against Zimbabwe, Lanka (latest tour), Windies and England. 

 

This argument can go on and on.

Take Zim out, KLR still averages 50+ at a SR of 150+. He has 4 50+ scores in against WI/ENG/SL in just 8 innings overall whereas Dhawan has merely 2 50+ scores against SL/NZ in 20 odd innings overall.

 

LINK

 

It gets even uglier for Dhawan if we start checking against whom did he excel in Tests compared to Rahul. None of his performances are even in the same post code as Rahul's performance against AUS last year. If you think an argument can go on and on when we are comparing a bloke averaging 50+ to someone who averages 20+ then I'd rather not be part of that argument.

 

29 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

And calling Kohli corrupt as they come, well I try mostly not to make an allegation agains someone on the net that I can't defend in public, or in a court if law. 

Good for you. I believe in the "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." expression.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Jimmy Cliff

[NameGoesHere]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Take Zim out, KLR still averages 50+ at a SR of 150+. He has 4 50+ scores in against WI/ENG/SL in just 8 innings overall whereas Dhawan has merely 2 50+ scores against SL/NZ in 20 odd innings overall.

 

LINK

 

It gets even uglier for Dhawan if we start checking against whom did he excel in Tests compared to Rahul. None of his performances are even in the same post code as Rahul's performance against AUS last year. If you think an argument can go on and on when we comparing a bloke averaging 50+ to someone who averages 20+ then I'd rather not be part of that argument.

 

Good for you. I believe in the "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." expression.

1.  You're arguing with the wrong guy.

2.  So I'm guessing you'd be very comfortable using the duck analogy defense if called to defend a corruption allegation against a public figure in real life?  Ok.

[Lannister]

51 minutes ago, Vijy said:

but Dhoni was still held unaccoutable and untouchable after the 8-0. i am referring to the events immediately afterwards, not much more later. the bcci never feel the heat - if you ask them to spell "accountable", they will spell "nepotism" or "incompetent" instead.

I feel they know they can not afford to repeat the same mistakes that happened with Dhoni. We are on the verge of another set of overseas failures, soon fans and media are going to ask questions. Kohli's current methods will not work, that's 100% guaranteed, they either make him change that or face the music from all sections. 

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Lannister said:

I feel they know they can not afford to repeat the same mistakes that happened with Dhoni. We are on the verge of another set of overseas failures, soon fans and media are going to ask questions. Kohli's current methods will not work, that's 100% guaranteed, they either make him change that or face the music from all sections. 

bcci has never believed in accountability. hence, as long as kohli scores big in the ipl and preens/prances in front of the media, they will be happy with him even if we get drubbing after drubbing.

[Shunya]

7 minutes ago, Vijy said:

bcci has never believed in accountability. hence, as long as kohli scores big in the ipl and preens/prances in front of the media, they will be happy with him even if we get drubbing after drubbing.

WC loss is the most that hurts, like 2007. Rest everything comes and goes, These series are going to make money for everyone associated with it. Boards, Players, sponsors, everyone. ICF activity increases from series to series, we all enjoy our cricket. Player vs Player comparisons will continue. Fanbases will keep on defending their beloved players. Nothing changes, except a bad drubbing in a WC.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, Shunya said:

WC loss is the most that hurts, like 2007. Rest everything comes and goes, These series are going to make money for everyone associated with it. Boards, Players, sponsors, everyone. ICF activity increases from series to series, we all enjoy our cricket. Player vs Player comparisons will continue. Fanbases will keep on defending their beloved players. Nothing changes, except a bad drubbing in a WC.

I doubt if even a first round loss from WC will instigate BCCI to step up.

[NameGoesHere]

12 minutes ago, Lannister said:

I feel they know they can not afford to repeat the same mistakes that happened with Dhoni. We are on the verge of another set of overseas failures, soon fans and media are going to ask questions. Kohli's current methods will not work, that's 100% guaranteed, they either make him change that or face the music from all sections. 

Kohli needs to be questioned quickly and publicly.  I'd wait till the end of this Test and if the result is what  what we all expect it to be, changes need to happen- fast.  

 

I don't think anyone's in the mood to take an extended overseas hammering again, at least not without bloody good reason.

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

Kohli needs to be questioned quickly and publicly.  I'd wait till the end of this Test and if the result is what  what we all expect it to be, changes need to happen- fast.  

 

I don't think anyone's in the mood to take an extended overseas hammering again, at least not without bloody good reason.

if we get whitewashed on 2 (or more) of the 3 tours, I will stop following Indian international cricket altogether. no "top-tier" team has the right to do so miserably in Oz, Eng and SA over 6-7 years (since 2011) and yet do so little to address these problems. if we lose, it will be nice if someone puts VK on the spot, asks the difficult questions and makes him squirm

[beetle]

There is no excuse for not playing Rahul.

This is dirty game in play.

Sick skipper and sicker management !

[SK_IH]

3 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

Kohli needs to be questioned quickly and publicly.  I'd wait till the end of this Test and if the result is what  what we all expect it to be, changes need to happen- fast.  

 

I don't think anyone's in the mood to take an extended overseas hammering again, at least not without bloody good reason.

one thing I ll say in his favour is every country these days is getting slaughtered overseas ,so even if it's a 3-0 scoreline,Virat should be given full cycle of overseas tours to prove his uselessness/incompetency or value if he changes his way of going about things

[Lannister]

15 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

Kohli needs to be questioned quickly and publicly.  I'd wait till the end of this Test and if the result is what  what we all expect it to be, changes need to happen- fast.  

 

I don't think anyone's in the mood to take an extended overseas hammering again, at least not without bloody good reason.

The sad part is we need to wait another 4 years to tour SA again. By then, all their greats would have been retired.