Pandya's bowling in the 1st 2 ODIs

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Straight Drive said:

Does two wrongs make one right. Bhuvi too needs to increase his wickets tally per innings. Bhuvi was dropped for performance isn't it.

 

 

How were these players wrong, if only the above stats show everyone goes through the curve . 

Rarely guys like Kohli, bumrah or dhoni wud come who ll become the backbone of team in their 1st few yrs

[mancalledsting]

I think what everyone needs to understand is that Pandya's batting and bowling in ODIs/Tests is still a work in progress and that he needs to be given a long rope so that he can realise his tremendous potential and utility value to Indian side. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

I just looked through some stats in ODIs

@express bowling @Straight Drive @putrevus @maniac

 

Kapil dev avg 20 after 34 games with bat with only 3-50s

Kapil had 34 wkts after 34 games

 

Even kapil had a similar wkt tally and avg less with bat also one less half century 

 

 

 

[Straight Drive]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

How were these players wrong, if only the above stats show everyone goes through the curve . 

Rarely guys like Kohli, bumrah or dhoni wud come who ll become the backbone of team in their 1st few yrs

I agree all rounders are not readymade. There have been very few in history who played like proper all rounders right in first year of their career.

 

Most bits and pieces players have failed to become all rounders, only some could develop into one.

 

Hardik at the moment is bits and pieces cricketer. He has to rise like other all rounders. More than a year has passed since his debut. There is 34 ODI matches experience which he could have used to develop. So it's not that think tank has not given him chance or shown patience. A lot of cricketers were given benefit of patience for less than 10 matches. He has to give performances like an all rounder if he expects to be rated as one. Otherwise if the same performances continue he will be as bits and pieces cricketer and some day he will also get dropped. 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Straight Drive said:

I agree all rounders are not readymade. There have been very few in history who played like proper all rounders right in first year of their career.

 

Most bits and pieces players have failed to become all rounders, only some could develop into one.

 

Hardik at the moment is bits and pieces cricketer. He has to rise like other all rounders. More than a year has passed since his debut. There is 34 ODI matches experience which he could have used to develop. So it's not that think tank has not given him chance or shown patience. A lot of cricketers were given benefit of patience for less than 10 matches. He has to give performances like an all rounder if he expects to be rated as one. Otherwise if the same performances continue he will be as bits and pieces cricketer and some day he will also get dropped. 

 

i hve given u stats of the gr8 kapil dev above the all rounder

and then complete bowler like bhuvi and complete batsman like yuvi, raina, rohit

 

He stands at par and better in many ways 

 

M still failing to understand what has he done wrong to be questioned. Some failure - everyone has that. 

He is not a complete product - we all knew that when we asked to fast track him. Yet his perfomances are really good .......if not look at where other stood at same time.

 

Bits n pieces are such a poorly used term as it gives us balance 

Take pandya out add axar or jadeja

our batting becomes week and so does the lower order firepower goes away.......

 

Or add someone like yusuf pathan, we loose the 5th bowler and also a gun fielder

 

Those bits n pieces adds a lot to the team then we think of 

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

 Rohit and Dhawan is more of a problem of technique than temperament.

 

When such gifted and experienced international players have such awful techniques, it points towards not putting in sufficient effort and thought into improving this aspect.  Basically, attitude problem.

 

 

30 minutes ago, maniac said:

A Ramp shot +chasing a 5th stump line + not grounding a bat and running like a headless chicken in 3 out of 4 innings is inexcusable. These are mistakes a player probably makes over a period of time,not in the span of 2 tests.

 

Even Kapil Dev and Dhoni(in WI 2006) were reprimanded for a loose shot.

 

its failure of the coaching staff to speak sense in to him sure but obviously you need brains of your own to minimize these mistakes...I have seen plenty of 18-19 year olds in tests who showed far more composure.

 

 

Personally, I like a more controlled aggression approach in tests.

 

But, from  interviews by the team management ,  it would seem that the management have encouraged Pandya to play counterattacking cricket on the tough SA pitches after his innings of 93.

 

Apart from his lackadaisical run out, the other dismissals are probably a result of this plan.

[Straight Drive]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I just looked through some stats in ODIs

@express bowling @Straight Drive @putrevus @maniac

 

Kapil dev avg 20 after 34 games with bat with only 3-50s

Kapil had 34 wkts after 34 games

 

Even kapil had a similar wkt tally and avg less with bat also one less half century 

 

 

 

Kapil's 175 came in ODI number 37. And everyone knows what  scorecard he came in to bat and  a in high pressure WC knockout. Has Hardik shown anything like that yet. Are we sure Hardin is going to show anything even remotely near to innings like that. Just bringing it up because now Kapil has been bought into discussion.

 

And was it that batting average of 20 and Kapils wicket per matches was not criticized during that times. 

[Straight Drive]

18 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I just looked through some stats in ODIs

@express bowling @Straight Drive @putrevus @maniac

 

Kapil dev avg 20 after 34 games with bat with only 3-50s

Kapil had 34 wkts after 34 games

 

Even kapil had a similar wkt tally and avg less with bat also one less half century 

 

 

 

Kapil's 175 came in ODI number 37. And everyone knows what  scorecard he came in to bat and  a in high pressure WC knockout. Has Hardik shown anything like that yet. Are we sure Hardik is going to show anything even remotely near to innings like that in his next 3 odis. Just bringing it up because now Kapil has been bought into discussion.

 

And was it that batting average of 20 and Kapils wicket per matches was not criticized during that times. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Kapil's 175 came in ODI number 37. And everyone knows what  scorecard he came in to bat and  a in high pressure WC knockout. Has Hardik shown anything like that yet. Are we sure Hardik is going to show anything even remotely near to innings like that in his next 3 odis. Just bringing it up because now Kapil has been bought into discussion.

 

And was it that batting average of 20 and Kapils wicket per matches was not criticized during that times. 

pandya was runout in 2017CT.......who knws

M not saying he wud have made 175 but who knws cud have made a 100-120

 

the point isnt what he did in 37 games, the point is pandya hasnt done any bad from the names we are using 

And if these stats are to show anything its that every cricketer will go through his up n down at start and they only become better if they are backed and allowed to fail. Failure is a big teacher. 

 

N most improtantly - ull hardly get ready made products who ll set international stage on fire......thats what these stats show 

[putrevus]

39 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I just looked through some stats in ODIs

@express bowling @Straight Drive @putrevus @maniac

 

Kapil dev avg 20 after 34 games with bat with only 3-50s

Kapil had 34 wkts after 34 games

 

Even kapil had a similar wkt tally and avg less with bat also one less half century 

 

 

 

You must be kidding in comparing Indian team then to now.That Indian team was going nowhere in odis nor did they have any idea to play odis.

Yet by his 40th match Kapil dev led India world cup glory and scored 175 runs on the way when his team was tottering at 9/4 reducing his bowling average to bowling average to 28.00.

 

There is a reason why Kapil dev by his second year became the most important player along with Gavaskar that's how rapid was his development.

 

Pandya has been part of Indian team for last two years do you see any improvement in his bowling???Do you see Pandya being an integral part of this team ?I don't see any great improvement especially in his bowling.

 

Bhuvi opens bowling and bowls death overs.Pandya bowls least pressurized overs and yet his economy rate is nearly a run 0.6 higher.Bhuvi when he stunk was kicked out of the team.

Pandya will play whole series let us see what does?He will play his 40th game very soon.  if he turns out half as good as kapil dev then we have ourselves a great player. 

 

No one is asking Pandya to be dropped now but unless he shows any improvement he is going out of the team sooner than later..

 

Look at Ben Stokes do you think Pandya will match him after another 30 matches.

Edited February 5, 2018 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You must be kidding in comparing Indian team then to now.That Indian team was going nowhere in odis nor did they have any idea to play odis.

Yet by his 40th match Kapil dev led India world cup glory and scored 175 runs on the way when his team was tottering at 9/4 reducing his bowling average to bowling average to 28.00.

Avg 20 in any era is not done 

 

u talk about era, dnt u knw how conditions have gone so much in favour of batsman

Had pandya bowled in that era with his speeds he wud have had a lot more wkts 

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

There is a reason why Kapil dev by his second year became the most important player along with Gavaskar that how rapid was his development.

 

Pandya has been part of Indian team for last two years do you see any improvement in his bowling???Do you see Pandya being an integral part of this team ?I don't see any great improvement especially in his bowling.

Yes, pandya is confirmed player in t20 n odi n has made a case in test cricket 

Pandya is an intergral member of this side

He is the lone power hitter

he plays the role of a floater

he has opened bowling when needed and bowled at death on few occasions

 

 

Yes their has been a lot of improvement in pandya bowling .......he has developed cutter and bowls good yorker at times. He varies his length a lot more then he use to

@express bowling can emphasis more 

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Bhuvi opens bowling and bowls death overs.Pandya bowls least pressurized overs and yet his economy rate is nearly a run 0.6 higher.Bhuvi when he stunk was kicked out of the team.

Thats bhuvi main job, Pandya job is those overs and batting (which bhuvi doenst have)

 

Again like i said in test 

If rohit or dhawan fails with bat they cnt come back n contribute with ball. which pandya can

If bhuvi fails with ball he is useless, pandya can come n contribute with bat n fielding (pandya is yet to fail as bowler)

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pandya will play whole series let us see what does?He will play his 40th game very soon.  if he turns out half as good as kapil dev then we have ourselves a great player. 

Yea kapil dev became kaipl dev in his 40th inning .....right

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

No one is asking Pandya to be dropped now but unless he shows any improvement he is going out of the team sooner than later..

Pandya has shown tremendous improvement in batting n bowling , if u only u open ur eyes

[Straight Drive]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

pandya was runout in 2017CT.......who knws

M not saying he wud have made 175 but who knws cud have made a 100-120

 

the point isnt what he did in 37 games, the point is pandya hasnt done any bad from the names we are using 

And if these stats are to show anything its that every cricketer will go through his up n down at start and they only become better if they are backed and allowed to fail. Failure is a big teacher. 

 

N most improtantly - ull hardly get ready made products who ll set international stage on fire......thats what these stats show 

Not every cricketer who does not makes a odi ton till 78 matches becomes Sachin and later goes to score so many odi tons.

 

Likewise not every all rounder who will have similar stats to Kapil in initial matches will turn the corner and become one of the best world class all rounder in history of the game.

 

If we give every player 50 matches to perform and develop then it's going to be a problem to get results in time. Unlike Sachin and Kapil who were identified as talented and hence they were given support was a different case. Has Dhoni or Virat or any coach from India seen such exceptional talent in Hardik to give him lot matches to prove himself. Doubtful. 

 

I would be happy even if he performs like Irfan Pathan by the end of his career.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Avg 20 in any era is not done 

 

u talk about era, dnt u knw how conditions have gone so much in favour of batsman

Had pandya bowled in that era with his speeds he wud have had a lot more wkts 

Yes, pandya is confirmed player in t20 n odi n has made a case in test cricket 

Pandya is an intergral member of this side

He is the lone power hitter

he plays the role of a floater

he has opened bowling when needed and bowled at death on few occasions

 

 

Yes their has been a lot of improvement in pandya bowling .......he has developed cutter and bowls good yorker at times. He varies his length a lot more then he use to

@express bowling can emphasis more 

Thats bhuvi main job, Pandya job is those overs and batting (which bhuvi doenst have)

 

Again like i said in test 

If rohit or dhawan fails with bat they cnt come back n contribute with ball. which pandya can

If bhuvi fails with ball he is useless, pandya can come n contribute with bat n fielding (pandya is yet to fail as bowler)

Yea kapil dev became kaipl dev in his 40th inning .....right

Pandya has shown tremendous improvement in batting n bowling , if u only u open ur eyes

I don't have to open any eyes, I just don't see any real bowling skills in Pandya.Both Rohit and Dhawan have been dropped and went out and came back better players and that's why they are part of this team.Don't worry if this trend continues he will not be around for long.There is only so much any team can carry a passenger.

 

I hope he improves, well we will see that too.

 

 

[sandeep]

19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Look at Ben Stokes do you think Pandya will match him after another 30 matches.

Last time I checked Pandya had better stats than Stokes as a white ball bowler.   

 

You need to stop thinking of Pandya as a bowling allrounder.  Think of him as a young lower-order batsman who can bowl a few overs for you.  Comparisons to Binny, and Irfan Pathan are silly - those guys were bowlers who could bat a bit.  Pandya is the reverse.  

 

I'm all for giving Pandya competition whether its Deepak Hooda/Krunal Pandya/Vijay Shankar.   By all means, we should get these guys involved.   

 

But there are a couple of people on this thread who are being unduly harsh on Pandya.  I suspect because they had written him off earlier, and were pretty much waiting for an opportunity to claim that they were right all along.  

[Pollack]

Panda should be rested. His pace is down. Clear indications of being exhausted. Shankar should be the backup.

[Ankit_sharma03]

35 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Look at Ben Stokes do you think Pandya will match him after another 30 matches.

didnt that ben stokes got smashed for 4 sixes in final over , whereas pandya defended 12 runs

Stokes avg 35 only .....koi zyaada far nhin hia 

 

ben stokes avg 21 after 34 games with s/r of 86, pandya avg 33 s/r of 117

and the wkt tally is similar

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[Straight Drive]

Yes, Irfan was a better skilled at bowling and his batting was secondary skill.

Hardik is more like better skilled at ODI batting, I repeat ODI batting and secondary skill being bowling. It does seems like that watching him in ODI's. However is he fit to be in team as specialist ODI batsman batting at 5 or 6. In that case all problems are resolved. Then his one wicket per match will be accepted.

[rtmohanlal]

Pandya's talent is never in question.Otherwise how can some body score 93 runs vs Steyn,Rabada,Philander & Morkel?.The problem is his temperament & lack of confidence to play his natural game.He need to be absolutely fearless at the  batting crease just like Gilchrist approached batting and play his aggressive sort of batting.Doing the 'Pujara style of play' will only bring disaster for him.

[Straight Drive]

13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

didnt that ben stokes got smashed for 4 sixes in final over , whereas pandya defended 12 runs

Stokes avg 35 only .....koi zyaada far nhin hia 

 

ben stokes avg 21 after 34 games with s/r of 86, pandya avg 33 s/r of 117

and the wkt tally is similar

 

Ben Stokes was dropped for non performance. He had to make a comeback. 

[maniac]

20 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

didnt that ben stokes got smashed for 4 sixes in final over , whereas pandya defended 12 runs

Stokes avg 35 only .....koi zyaada far nhin hia 

 

ben stokes avg 21 after 34 games with s/r of 86, pandya avg 33 s/r of 117

and the wkt tally is similar

 

Lol Ben Stokes can play as a pure bat at no.5 for his side....cannot guarantee that with Pandya yet.

 

There is one thing saying Pandya is a rare talent and needs to be handled properly or groomed well and there is another thing already anointing him a superstar....that has clearly gone to his head...I haven’t seen him improve at all

aince his debut,he is still one mercurial

performance followed by 5 mediocre ones....looks like we have our own version of Afridi.

Edited February 5, 2018 by maniac