Pandya's bowling in the 1st 2 ODIs

[Straight Drive]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

This is the bottomline with your perspective on Pandya.  You keep focusing on his bowling, when he's a #6 bat who gives you a few overs.  

 

As @express bowling has already pointed out, purely from a numbers perspective his batting is good enough to play as a #6 bat.  And that's in spite of hardly getting any opportunities to play big innings.  He's always tasked with throwing his bat to get extra runs for the team, or comes in when wickets have fallen in a pressure situation while chasing.  In this scenario, he has shown excellent temperament and potential as a "finisher".  

 

and btw, in 2018, an econ rate of 5.49 is acceptable for a 6th bowler.   And so is taking a wicket or so every game.   

 

Can he do better?  Yes.   Has he done enough to justify selection?  Handily.  

As i mentioned in my previous post, i again agree that his economy is definitely not a problem in this era given the prevailing conditions and rules. The partnerships should not be allowed to prosper during his 10 overs nor the pressure should be released. I would not expect him to take 2 wickets an innings because even most specialist bowlers do not  have that, however he needs to improve the ratio of wickets per innings. In some series he has to pick up his wickets tally. 

[BeautifulGame]

3 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Yuvi might have averaged 40 but he took 15 wickets in 9 matches in that WC. He was one of the top 5 bowlers in that tournament.  He also scored 362 runs in 8 innings. 2011 was a series where Yuvi played like a proper all rounder in both disciplines. 

 

Yes in the tournament he suddenly hit peak form as a bowler.But honestly leading into the tournament would you have said Yuvi is one of the top 5 bowlers in India ? Definitely not.

 

Even if we take 2011 world cup in a vaccum, Yuvi was among our best bowler alongside Zaheer but our other 3 bowlers were no better than Pandya performance is now.Bhajji for ex had 9 wkts in 9 matches at an average of 40+ .It's nigh on impossible to have 5 quality bowlers who can take 1.5-2 wkts per match .

3 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Regarding Hardik, i do feel he has improved his bowling by not bowling the leg side balls that he used to , however he needs to add wickets. I am okay with his rpo below 6 in this modern day cricket and considering he is not a specialist bowler. The pressure is released when he comes to ball and there is a chance that partnership will build.

 

 

I do agree Pandya needs to improve in both batting and bowling and he has a lot of scope to improve.

 

Lance Klusner for me is the best odi all rounder since Kapil.Pandya should be looked at and developed  as a similar player.A finisher who can consistently give 7-8 overs as fifth bowler.

 

What I don't agree with he needs to pick up wickets at a better rate to justify his selection in the team.Wicket per match (Like Pandya has ) is pretty good for the 5th choice bowler.His most important attribute to the team is maintaing a strike rate of 120 and consistently giving team big finishes .

 

 

[Straight Drive]

30 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

Yes in the tournament he suddenly hit peak form as a bowler.But honestly leading into the tournament would you have said Yuvi is one of the top 5 bowlers in India ? Definitely not.

 

Even if we take 2011 world cup in a vaccum, Yuvi was among our best bowler alongside Zaheer but our other 3 bowlers were no better than Pandya performance is now.Bhajji for ex had 9 wkts in 9 matches at an average of 40+ .It's nigh on impossible to have 5 quality bowlers who can take 1.5-2 wkts per match .

I do agree Pandya needs to improve in both batting and bowling and he has a lot of scope to improve.

 

Lance Klusner for me is the best odi all rounder since Kapil.Pandya should be looked at and developed  as a similar player.A finisher who can consistently give 7-8 overs as fifth bowler.

 

What I don't agree with he needs to pick up wickets at a better rate to justify his selection in the team.Wicket per match (Like Pandya has ) is pretty good for the 5th choice bowler.His most important attribute to the team is maintaing a strike rate of 120 and consistently giving team big finishes .

 

 

2011 is far too long to remember his form. Just had it in memory that he was one of the top wicket taker and scored lot of runs too. Therefore, I actually had to check his stats to figure out how many innings he batted and bowled, the number of wickets he took and runs he scored. Impossible for me to recollect what kind of form he went into the WC. What I do remember though is  that at one point of time he was the best ODI player amongst all teams. Must obviously be his prime. 

Kluesner was superb, he was a proper all-rounder imo as well.He and Freddie were two hardest hitters then.

 

This all-rounder debate is always very tricky as it involves discussion of both skills. Personally i feel with Dhoni doing the batsman wicket-keeper all-rounder type of role, we would be better with an all-rounder who excels more at bowling than as a batsman. 

 

We need to ensure by giving Rishabh Pant and some other wicket keepers who can bat, more or almost all matches in T20 so that we have a proper wicket keeper batsman again to serve Team India as a logn term solid wicket-keeping batsman option.

 

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Well fair enough if you think he is better than Sehwag, Yuvi and Raina as ODI batsman. I have a different opinion in that Sehwag, Raina and Yuvi were all much better ODI batsmen than him. 

 

Pandya might end up being a better ODI batsman than those 3  ...   or he might get lost in oblivion.  I don't know yet, given that he has played just 30 odd ODIs and those 3 had long careers.

 

My point is that an average in the 32 to 36 range does not mean an ODI batter is not fit to bat in the top 6, especially if he has a very high SR.  We see many celebrated ODI  batters who averaged in that range, and usually with lesser SRs compared to the need of their respective eras.

Edited February 6, 2018 by express bowling

[putrevus]

20 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

The guy is a batting all rounder 

 

he has not batted in this series yet. Give a chance ffs 

He did bat in test series and bowl in test series.How do you assess him there.I am not asking him to dropped now but I don't think you can classify him as batting allrounder.

 

What is Hardik Pandya as of now and what will he be in three years.

[King Tendulkar]

Just now, putrevus said:

He did bat in test series and bowl in test series.How do you assess him there.I am not asking him to dropped now but I don't think you can classify him as batting allrounder.

 

What is Hardik Pandya as of now and what will he be in three years.

He is defo batting all rounder . 

 

10 overs to go . Need to get on with it no better player to walk out to bat then pandya 

[putrevus]

9 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

He is defo batting all rounder . 

 

10 overs to go . Need to get on with it no better player to walk out to bat then pandya 

But can you a carry a player just for that, they are playing with just 4 bowlers plus jadhav.What happens if one of bowlers has a bad day like Bumrah in CT finals.He is not even able to bowl 7 solid overs that too after opening bowlers have created pressure for him.That is a big problem.

[sandeep]

19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He did bat in test series and bowl in test series.How do you assess him there.I am not asking him to dropped now but I don't think you can classify him as batting allrounder.

 

What is Hardik Pandya as of now and what will he be in three years.

You are mixing formats.   He is nowhere a proven and justified selection in tests, more of a developmental prospect.  But in ODIs, he's inarguably a key component with numbers and performances to make his selection iron-clad, as long as he is fit and in form.  

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You are mixing formats.   He is nowhere a proven and justified selection in tests, more of a developmental prospect.  But in ODIs, he's inarguably a key component with numbers and performances to make his selection iron-clad, as long as he is fit and in form.  

I am not mixing ,he is not a key member in anything. He is still surviving on basis of his potential and more due to lack of options.

He is one losing streak away from being dropped.If team was down 0-2 instead, Pandya's place would be biggest debate.For now he is is getting a pass but if I were Shastri and Kohli, I would caution Pandya to pull up his socks and do more with his bowling.

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by putrevus

[cowboysfan]

has there been any improvement in his bowling?.generally we see a steady improvement in bowlers like we see in Bhuvi and Bumrah but PAndya has always been cannon fodder and pressure reliever and the biggest weak link in what i think is a a team for all conditions and a favorite for the world cup.I genuinely dont think Pandya should be in the WC squad unless he shows a drastic improvement in his bowling.

[zen]

This thread appears to be a trap to lure in Pandya haters 

 

Pandya is an asset

[Straight Drive]

2 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

has there been any improvement in his bowling?.generally we see a steady improvement in bowlers like we see in Bhuvi and Bumrah but PAndya has always been cannon fodder and pressure reliever and the biggest weak link in what i think is a a team for all conditions and a favorite for the world cup.I genuinely dont think Pandya should be in the WC squad unless he shows a drastic improvement in his bowling.

He is a batting all rounder. His bowling is his secondary skills and it shows in the stats. I would not blame him if he struggles in picking wickets as bowling is not his strong skill set at this point of time. Personally I would opt for a bowling all rounder in the team. Wickets are key imo. 

 

Team India also needs to develop a bowling all rounder so that the bowling attack is boosted as well. Someone like Irfan Pathan who was better skilled at bowling than batting. 

 

I guess the management now is more keen for Batting all rounder and they are not the that keen on the other type.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

He is a batting all rounder. His bowling is his secondary skills and it shows in the stats. I would not blame him if he struggles in picking wickets as bowling is not his strong skill set at this point of time. Personally I would opt for a bowling all rounder in the team. Wickets are key imo. 

So u were happy with jadeja or ull go for Axar 

3 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Team India also needs to develop a bowling all rounder so that the bowling attack is boosted as well. Someone like Irfan Pathan who was better skilled at bowling than batting. 

U have any suggestions?

 

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

So u were happy with jadeja or ull go for Axar 

U have any suggestions?

 

Jadeja won't give the option of pace bowling all rounder. As we already have Kuldeep and Yuzvendra, we will not need another spinner, especially with two balls being used in ODI's nowadays. 

 

 

What i would do is drop Ajinkya Rahane, as his average and SR is mis-fit for ODI thereby moving  the middle order up one spots. Hardik will bat at 6. I would play 5 specialist bowlers.

 

1 to 6: Rohit, Shikhar, Virat, Kedar, Dhoni, Hardik

7 to 11: 5 specialist bowlers who have good ratio of innings: wickets.

[BeautifulGame]

47 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Jadeja won't give the option of pace bowling all rounder. As we already have Kuldeep and Yuzvendra, we will not need another spinner, especially with two balls being used in ODI's nowadays. 

 

 

What i would do is drop Ajinkya Rahane, as his average and SR is mis-fit for ODI thereby moving  the middle order up one spots. Hardik will bat at 6. I would play 5 specialist bowlers.

 

1 to 6: Rohit, Shikhar, Virat, Kedar, Dhoni, Hardik

7 to 11: 5 specialist bowlers who have good ratio of innings: wickets.

Has any team won a world cup with just 5 specialist batsman ?

 

The Aussies usually had Tom Moody / Lehman /Clarke/Haddin  batting at 7 when they won the world cup.

We had Raina at 7 who was the difference in both Q final and Semi in 2011.

 

Srilanka had Hashanah Thilakaratne at 7 when they won in 1996

 

An extra batsman at 6&7  is more important than specialist 5th bowler and long tail in odis.That always makes the difference in winning big tournaments.

Edited February 7, 2018 by BeautifulGame

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, BeautifulGame said:

Has any team won a world cup with just 5 specialist batsman ?

 

The Aussies usually had Tom Moody / Lehman /Clarke/Haddin  batting at 7 when they won the world cup.

We had Raina at 7 who was the difference in both Q final and Semi in 2011.

 

Srilanka had Hashanah Thilakaratne at 7 when they won in 1996

 

An extra batsman at 6&7  is more important than specialist 5th bowler and long tail in odis.That always makes the difference in winning big tournaments.

With Rohit, Shikhar, Virat, Kedar, Dhoni and Hardik there will be 6 batters who have a good average and SR combination. 

[sandeep]

Bowled well today did Pandya.  Would have had a wicket too if not for a reasonably easy drop by old grey-beard.  

 

And @Pollack as I type this, Chahal well ahead of Kuldeep in the wickets tally for the series!

 

I'm loving the KulCha spin twins though.  Long may they reign.

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Bowled well today did Pandya.  Would have had a wicket too if not for a reasonably easy drop by old grey-beard.  

 

And @Pollack as I type this, Chahal well ahead of Kuldeep in the wickets tally for the series!

 

I'm loving the KulCha spin twins though.  Long may they reign.

Can't blame Greybeard too much. His eyes, ears, muscles, etc are all failing. I wonder if he can even see properly these days.

[Pollack]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

And @Pollack as I type this, Chahal well ahead of Kuldeep in the wickets tally for the series!

 

Because Kohli is allowing Chahal to pick tailenders. Happened the same last match. Hopefully Kuldeep gets his fair chance of 5fer. Even last match Kuldeep bowled better than Chahal and had better figures but for a six from Morris. :

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Can't blame Greybeard too much. His eyes, ears, muscles, etc are all failing. I wonder if he can even see properly these days.

Thambi whistle podu.