There is no one matching Hardik Pandya’s abilities in India: MSK Prasad

[UnknownGenius]

11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

go check his ODI batting stats against Pak/NZ/Aus.  your logic will improve quite a bit.

You said Pandya was a good bowler because he once took 3 wickets with the new ball. That was a ridiculous statement so I showed it means nothing because Stu Binny once took 5 wickets with new ball

 

Why are you bringing batting into this now? Oh wait, you're clutching at straws after being proven to have weak logic

 

Move on....

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, UnknownGenius said:

You said Pandya was a good bowler because he once took 3 wickets with the new ball. That was a ridiculous statement so I showed it means nothing because Stu Binny once took 5 wickets with new ball

Context matters, "genius".   That statement was made in response to a claim that he is useless with the new ball.  

 

You jump into a conversation halfway, and make 'genius' assumptions without bothering to read the context, you only make an ass*umption* out of yourself.  

 

Pandya is, and should always be looked at, as a batting allrounder.  His bowling is his secondary skill.  Think of him as a Raina replacement.  "Haters" can nitpick all they want about his flaws, but bottomline is that after Bumrah, VK, and our openers, he would be the first name penciled in for an Indian ODI XI.  That's just the reality of it.   But half-empty maatlas can continue to make a whole lot of noise...

[UnknownGenius]

47 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Context matters, "genius".   That statement was made in response to a claim that he is useless with the new ball.  

 

You jump into a conversation halfway, and make 'genius' assumptions without bothering to read the context, you only make an ass*umption* out of yourself.  

 

Pandya is, and should always be looked at, as a batting allrounder.  His bowling is his secondary skill.  Think of him as a Raina replacement.  "Haters" can nitpick all they want about his flaws, but bottomline is that after Bumrah, VK, and our openers, he would be the first name penciled in for an Indian ODI XI.  That's just the reality of it.   But half-empty maatlas can continue to make a whole lot of noise...

Yes he is useless with the new ball. One game doesn't change the fact. That's the point.

Seems like you are never going to get it so no point wasting bandwidth on you

Next

[Laaloo]

1 minute ago, UnknownGenius said:

 

Seems like you are never going to get it so no point wasting bandwidth on you

Next

Can you use that process for the whole forum also?

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, UnknownGenius said:

Yes he is useless with the new ball. One game doesn't change the fact. That's the point.

Seems like you are never going to get it so no point wasting bandwidth on you

Next

I see that you failed to look up his batting stats against Pak/Aus/NZ.    15 matches, Batting average 41+, SR of 118+  - Those are what they call all-star numbers.  

 

Ignorant haters can keep on hating.  Pandya is a guy who is trusted and valued by everyone that matters in Indian cricket. Including fans who understand the sport.  

 

Yes, you are better off making excuses and running away from the discussion.  Keep yourself busy with saas-bahu gossip and CSK-puja.  Go watch SunTv or some tollywood movie where the fat hero stabs the villains with a banana...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by sandeep

[Global.Baba]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Context matters, "genius".   That statement was made in response to a claim that he is useless with the new ball.  

 

You jump into a conversation halfway, and make 'genius' assumptions without bothering to read the context, you only make an ass*umption* out of yourself.  

 

Pandya is, and should always be looked at, as a batting allrounder.  His bowling is his secondary skill.  Think of him as a Raina replacement.  "Haters" can nitpick all they want about his flaws, but bottomline is that after Bumrah, VK, and our openers, he would be the first name penciled in for an Indian ODI XI.  That's just the reality of it.   But half-empty maatlas can continue to make a whole lot of noise...

Raina was a proper batsman who could bowl a bit. Apt replacement or comparison is Kedar Jadhav.

 

Pandya is a specialist allrounder and in this case I would agree with Khota and his unicorn theory about allrounders.

 

Having said that Pandya’s utility is he is unfortunately one of the only power hitter in the side low down the order. On that alone he has to be in the side. He is not someone I would back in a 70/5 or 80-4 situation. But great to have in a 200-4 250-5 situation going in to the end of an innings.

[zen]

To those who are NOT IPL team mouthpieces or cavemen, players such as Pandya offer value at the moment 

 

Batting

 

Only 5 players have played 20 or more tests in last two years:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date between 30 Oct 2016 and 30 Oct 2018

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by runs scored (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Kohli	2016-2018	25	42	4	2777	243	73.07	4273	64.98	11	7	3	286	8
CA Pujara	2016-2018	26	43	2	2050	202	50.00	4532	45.23	7	9	3	237	4
KL Rahul	2016-2018	22	36	2	1286	199	37.82	2160	59.53	2	10	5	155	7
AM Rahane	2016-2018	23	38	2	1062	132	29.50	2305	46.07	1	6	3	112	4
R Ashwin	2016-2018	25	36	2	821	72	24.14	1481	55.43	0	5	1	102	3

 

Compared to specialist such as Rahane and Rahul, who played 20+ tests, Pandya in 11 tests has:

• Scored a 100 in SL, taking Ind from 320 odd to 480 odd
• Scored a fighting 90 odd in the first test in SA, while the rest (including extras) scored 110 odd
• Scored 70 odd vs AFG, after Ind was 310 odd to take it to 440 odd 
• In Eng, in the first test was the last man out for 30 odd and was fighting to take Ind to a win 
• In Eng, where Ind lost 4 test matches, he won us a test with the ball and also scored 50 odd 

 

Of the 11 tests, Pandya has played 10 away. Of those who have played at least 5 tests, below is how he has performed:

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Home or away away (home of opposition)

Start of match date between 30 Oct 2016 and 30 Oct 2018

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 5

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Kohli	11	20	1	1040	153	54.73	1757	59.19	4	4	1	112	2
CA Pujara	10	18	1	687	153	40.41	1633	42.06	3	2	2	74	1
S Dhawan	8	14	0	552	190	39.42	667	82.75	2	0	0	84	1
AM Rahane	9	16	1	543	132	36.20	1152	47.13	1	3	1	54	0
KL Rahul	9	16	0	471	149	29.43	768	61.32	1	2	2	63	1
HH Pandya	10	17	1	461	108	28.81	626	73.64	1	3	2	58	12
R Ashwin	9	15	2	348	54	26.76	548	63.50	0	1	0	46	2
M Vijay	5	10	0	128	46	12.80	434	29.49	0	0	2	15	0
Mohammed Shami	11	19	2	156	30	9.17	189	82.53	0	0	4	14	7
I Sharma	7	13	3	56	14	5.60	186	30.10	0	0	3	7	0
JJ Bumrah	6	11	4	10	6	1.42	85	11.76	0	0	4	0	0

 

• Has scored as many 50+ scores as Rahane 
• Has scored more 50+ scores than Dhawan, Rahul, Vijay and Ashwin 

 

Bowling

• In 19 innings, Pandya has bowled 156 overs. That is approx. 8 overs per inning
• Obviously, we are not recommending playing a specialist bowler for 8 overs over Pandya and therefore weakening the batting relatively (the batting that is not optimized and playing a bunch of sub 40 avg batsmen in top 5) 

 

 

At the moment, w/o optimizing the 11, there is no case for either playing a batsman or a bowler over Pandya, who is the least of Ind's concerns. In fact, Ind should be backing such players 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by zen

[Khota]

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

Based on what you are saying you aren't looking at the whole picture, more like 'hole' picture.  You are either ignorantly or willfully ignoring his quality ODI batting performances against Aus, NZ, Pakistan.  Evaluate him as a batting allrounder who can give you 6-7 overs in an ODI.  By that standard, he is quality.  Given that our team lacks power-hitting outside of Rohit and Dhawan, his value increases even more.  

 

But you can cling to your close-mindedness.  Btw, your handle translates to 'wrong' in gujju

So you do feel that he is not fit to do his full quota of overs.

Power hitting means nothing to me. It is run I lookfor.

 

Anyway it menas friend or ally.

[Khota]

10 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

why u dnt knw who were considered as gr8 all rounders

 

Just give me a list of all the allrounders India has produced. I kow so little about this.

[philcric]

30 minutes ago, Khota said:

So you do feel that he is not fit to do his full quota of overs.

Power hitting means nothing to me. It is run I lookfor.

 

Anyway it menas friend or ally.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=7;batting_positionmin1=7;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmin1=16+Oct+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

Last 2 years (which is Pandya's career) ....

 

At #7, only 10 players have scored more than 200 runs. 4 of which are minnows who mostly play amongst themselves.

 

Pandya has 391 runs in 11 completed innings with an average of 36 and a SR of 118.

 

Moeen Ali (who is also an 'all rounder' btw) tops the list with 631 runs in 23 completed innings. 

(Extrapolated runs for Pandya for the same no. of innings would be 800+)

 

Pandya has the highest average.

 

Pandya has the joint highest SR.

 

Pandya has the joint highest no. of 50+ scores.

 

 

PS: Why is power hitting not important in LOIs ?

 

 

 

[philcric]

53 minutes ago, Khota said:

Just give me a list of all the allrounders India has produced. I kow so little about this.

 

Why just India. Why not the world across?

 

How many pace bowlers India produced before Kapil Dev?

0 (Amar Singh played only 7 tests. In 1930s !!)

 

How many leg spinners India produced before (and after) Anil Kumble?

2 (Subhash Gupte, Chandrashekar)

[Khota]

1 hour ago, philcric said:

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=7;batting_positionmin1=7;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;spanmin1=16+Oct+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

Last 2 years (which is Pandya's career) ....

 

At #7, only 10 players have scored more than 200 runs. 4 of which are minnows who mostly play amongst themselves.

 

Pandya has 391 runs in 11 completed innings with an average of 36 and a SR of 118.

 

Moeen Ali (who is also an 'all rounder' btw) tops the list with 631 runs in 23 completed innings. 

(Extrapolated runs for Pandya for the same no. of innings would be 800+)

 

Pandya has the highest average.

 

Pandya has the joint highest SR.

 

Pandya has the joint highest no. of 50+ scores.

 

 

PS: Why is power hitting not important in LOIs ?

 

 

 

Long story short he is better than tailenders. I did admit to that.

[Khota]

53 minutes ago, philcric said:

 

Why just India. Why not the world across?

 

How many pace bowlers India produced before Kapil Dev?

0 (Amar Singh played only 7 tests. In 1930s !!)

 

How many leg spinners India produced before (and after) Anil Kumble?

2 (Subhash Gupte, Chandrashekar)

India is the starting point. We will start a new thread for legspinners but currently we are discussing all rounders. List please.

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Khota said:

 

Power hitting means nothing to me. It is run I lookfor.

 

 

Very high strike rate batters are needed and are the absolute priority in the last 10 overs of ODIs, whether they are power hitters or not.

 

This is because the objective is to score as many runs as possible in the few balls left.

 

Pandya has the highest ODI batting strike rate  ( 114. 5 )  in the history of Indian ODI cricket  (  among batters with 500+ runs ) on 31.10. 2018.  (  For reference, only 4 Indian ODI batters have had a SR of 100+ in our history )  And this at a decent average of around 30 for a lower middle order hitter.  

 

He should be in the ODI team just as a high SR batsman even ...  and the bowling is a bonus.

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
HH Pandya	2016-2018	42	27	4	670	83	29.13	585	114.52	0	4	2
YK Pathan	2008-2012	57	41	11	810	123*	27.00	713	113.60	2	3	7
KM Jadhav	2014-2018	47	31	10	884	120	42.09	819	107.93	2	3	2
V Sehwag	1999-2013	241	235	9	7995	219	35.37	7655	104.44	15	37	14
N Kapil Dev	1978-1994	225	198	39	3783	175*	23.79	3979	95.07	1	14	13
S Dhawan	2010-2018	114	113	6	4929	137	46.06	5229	94.26	15	25	3
SK Raina	2005-2018	226	194	35	5615	116*	35.31	6005	93.50	5	36	14
V Kohli	2008-2018	215	207	36	10199	183	59.64	10987	92.82	38	48	12
RV Uthappa	2006-2015	46	42	6	934	86	25.94	1031	90.59	0	6	4
SB Joshi	1996-2001	69	45	11	584	61*	17.17	653	89.43	0	1	4
RG Sharma	2007-2018	192	186	30	7391	264	47.37	8350	88.51	21	36	12
MS Dhoni	2004-2018	328	278	77	9999	183*	49.74	11435	87.44	9	67	9
Yuvraj Singh	2000-2017	301	275	39	8609	150	36.47	9846	87.43	14	52	18
R Ashwin	2010-2017	111	61	19	675	65	16.07	776	86.98	0	1	6
SR Tendulkar	1989-2012	463	452	41	18426	200*	44.83	21367	86.23	49	96	20
G Gambhir	2003-2013	147	143	11	5238	150*	39.68	6144	85.25	11	34	11
RA Jadeja	2009-2018	143	97	33	1982	87	30.96	2329	85.10	0	10	5
SM Patil	1980-1986	45	42	1	1005	84	24.51	1223	82.17	0	9	4
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2015	234	126	35	1213	49	13.32	1502	80.75	0	0	17
AB Agarkar	1998-2007	191	113	26	1269	95	14.58	1574	80.62	0	3	10
AT Rayudu	2013-2018	44	40	12	1447	124*	51.67	1815	79.72	3	9	1
J Srinath	1991-2003	229	121	38	883	53	10.63	1109	79.62	0	1	19
IK Pathan	2004-2012	120	87	21	1544	83	23.39	1941	79.54	0	5	7
AM Rahane	2011-2018	90	87	3	2962	111	35.26	3767	78.63	3	24	6
PA Patel	2003-2012	38	34	3	736	95	23.74	962	76.50	0	4	2

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_strike_rate;qualmin1=500;qualval1=runs;team=6;template=results;type=batting

Edited October 31, 2018 by express bowling

[Khota]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Very high strike rate batters are needed and are the absolute priority in the last 10 overs of ODIs, whether they are power hitters or not.

 

This is because the objective is to score as many runs as possible in the few balls left.

 

Pandya has the highest ODI batting strike rate  ( 114. 5 )  in the history of Indian ODI cricket  (  among batters with 500+ runs ) on 31.10. 2018.  And this at a decent average of 30 for a lower middle order hitter.

 

He should be in the ODI team just as a high SR batsman even ...  and the bowling is a bonus.

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
HH Pandya	2016-2018	42	27	4	670	83	29.13	585	114.52	0	4	2
YK Pathan	2008-2012	57	41	11	810	123*	27.00	713	113.60	2	3	7
KM Jadhav	2014-2018	47	31	10	884	120	42.09	819	107.93	2	3	2
V Sehwag	1999-2013	241	235	9	7995	219	35.37	7655	104.44	15	37	14
N Kapil Dev	1978-1994	225	198	39	3783	175*	23.79	3979	95.07	1	14	13
S Dhawan	2010-2018	114	113	6	4929	137	46.06	5229	94.26	15	25	3
SK Raina	2005-2018	226	194	35	5615	116*	35.31	6005	93.50	5	36	14
V Kohli	2008-2018	215	207	36	10199	183	59.64	10987	92.82	38	48	12
RV Uthappa	2006-2015	46	42	6	934	86	25.94	1031	90.59	0	6	4
SB Joshi	1996-2001	69	45	11	584	61*	17.17	653	89.43	0	1	4
RG Sharma	2007-2018	192	186	30	7391	264	47.37	8350	88.51	21	36	12
MS Dhoni	2004-2018	328	278	77	9999	183*	49.74	11435	87.44	9	67	9
Yuvraj Singh	2000-2017	301	275	39	8609	150	36.47	9846	87.43	14	52	18
R Ashwin	2010-2017	111	61	19	675	65	16.07	776	86.98	0	1	6
SR Tendulkar	1989-2012	463	452	41	18426	200*	44.83	21367	86.23	49	96	20
G Gambhir	2003-2013	147	143	11	5238	150*	39.68	6144	85.25	11	34	11
RA Jadeja	2009-2018	143	97	33	1982	87	30.96	2329	85.10	0	10	5
SM Patil	1980-1986	45	42	1	1005	84	24.51	1223	82.17	0	9	4
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2015	234	126	35	1213	49	13.32	1502	80.75	0	0	17
AB Agarkar	1998-2007	191	113	26	1269	95	14.58	1574	80.62	0	3	10
AT Rayudu	2013-2018	44	40	12	1447	124*	51.67	1815	79.72	3	9	1
J Srinath	1991-2003	229	121	38	883	53	10.63	1109	79.62	0	1	19
IK Pathan	2004-2012	120	87	21	1544	83	23.39	1941	79.54	0	5	7
AM Rahane	2011-2018	90	87	3	2962	111	35.26	3767	78.63	3	24	6
PA Patel	2003-2012	38	34	3	736	95	23.74	962	76.50	0	4	2

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_strike_rate;qualmin1=500;qualval1=runs;team=6;template=results;type=batting

I agree he is better than some and bowling is a bonus. He is not a proper bowler and that is what I was trying to convey.

[coffee_rules]

Statsguru might love HPandya, effectiveness of a player is measureable only by watching. His Test utility is suspect beyond reason. IDC about T20/ODIs.

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, Khota said:

Just give me a list of all the allrounders India has produced.

 

Chronologically ...

 

Vinoo Mankad

Kapil Dev

Ravi Shastri

Manoj Prabhakar

Sourav Ganguly   (  ODIs only )

Irfan Pathan

Hardik Pandya

 

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Statsguru might love HPandya, effectiveness of a player is measureable only by watching. His Test utility is suspect beyond reason.

 

Pandya has played 7 of his 11 tests in the toughest batting conditions, in 2 tough away series in S.A. and England.

 

Only Kohli has been able to score in these 2 series.  Everyone else failed. Even most of the home team batters failed in these 2 series.

 

Pandya is a batting allrounder ...  and till the time he plays a few tests in normal batting conditions, it is difficult to gauge his effectiveness in tests.

 

His test batting has looked good in tests in SL and when we had a batting collapse again Afghanistan.

[express bowling]

25 minutes ago, Khota said:

I agree he is better than some and bowling is a bonus. He is not a proper bowler and that is what I was trying to convey.

 

One cannot have 5 proper bowlers in ODIs ... because that weakens the lower-middle order big hitting batting and teams may falter after the 40th over.

 

Most teams play a high SR batter,  who can bowl passably , at No.7 for this reason.

[philcric]

3 hours ago, Khota said:

Long story short he is better than tailenders. I did admit to that.

 

You wanted runs. Pandya got runs - 391 in 11 completed innings.

 

Players batting at #7 are tailenders ?