Dhoni v Rahim - who has been better wk-batsman in tests?

[Bigg Brother]

This comparison is absymal. Comparing anyone(Even Tatenda Taibu)with someone who never cared about Test cricket is shameful.

 

Dhoni himself was crap test batsman,would have been thrown out as player from any other team,India made him captain for 6 years.

[Muloghonto]

15 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Dhoni was ATG in Odi 

In test , a force in India

Overseas above avg ill say at best 

Sure.

He is still an ATG wicket-keeper batsman in Tests. Yes, Gilly & Andy Flwoer were way better. Though Dhoni is 10 times the keeper Flower was. But name me 2-3 other wk-batsmen who are significantly better than Dhoni in tests. If you cannot, he automatically qualifies as an ATG keeper-bat, by being in the top 5 ever in the list....

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Muloghonto

[SK_IH]

5 hours ago, Bigg Brother said:

This comparison is absymal. Comparing anyone(Even Tatenda Taibu)with someone who never cared about Test cricket is shameful.

 

Dhoni himself was crap test batsman,would have been thrown out as player from any other team,India made him captain for 6 years.

Dhoni was one of India's better batsman in Eng in 2014, keep your hate reasonable atleast.

[Number]

In 90 test matches he played Dhoni has very few innings which changed course of the game. Most of the times he scored big was when he walked in 300/350-5. 

Though I'd still take Dhoni over Mushfiq but he is not an ATG keeper. Leagues below Gilly Sanga Flower etc.

[SK_IH]

1 hour ago, Number said:

In 90 test matches he played Dhoni has very few innings which changed course of the game. Most of the times he scored big was when he walked in 300/350-5. 

Though I'd still take Dhoni over Mushfiq but he is not an ATG keeper. Leagues below Gilly Sanga Flower etc.

Sanga shouldnt even be in the list, he didnt keep for many matches. And there is only one ATG Wk batsman i.e. Gilly and Dhoni is obviously not comparable to him, infact no one is.

[Global.Baba]

Mushfiqur is a rare match winner for his team. I am throwing around the word match winner  loosely because Bangladesh hardly wins anything. However they pull of the odd win here and there when he or the 2 other blokes in their team perform.

 

Dhoni on the other hand was a great supporting cast to have in a team full of match winners.He was never a match winner in tests.

 

Pure keeping skills in the subcontinent, Dhoni obviously. Overseas we will never know because Bangladesh hardly ever had a decent pace attack and Dhoni was average against fast bowlers. 

 

I dont think I have ever seen a Bangladesh  test match unless of course they are playing Indi. I did see bits and pieces of their tests vs England. So as you can see I am solely going by scorecards and stats.

 

Now coming to intent, in LOIs I have seen little  Mushi play some knocks which at times started give nerves to  big teams like us, Australia,SA and England . I have seen him smacking Pakistan phaaaasht bowlers every single time he played against them. 

 

Obviously he doesn’t have the temparament to finish games more often than not.

 

Dhoni on the other hand rides the coattails of other players and when he comes off with his selfish approach is hailed a finisher for doing zilch but mostly has  screwed us in recent times. 

 

Overall Dhoni and will end up that way because Bangladesh doesn’t play big teams.

 

currently Mushfiqur is miles ahead especially in LOIs

 

 

 

 

 

[Global.Baba]

31 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Sanga shouldnt even be in the list, he didnt keep for many matches. And there is only one ATG Wk batsman i.e. Gilly and Dhoni is obviously not comparable to him, infact no one is.

There is Andy Flower as well. 

 

Guys like Dujon etc played in a team and era where they hardly got a chance to score given the team he played for. However Dujon on keeping alone is miles ahead. How do you think Dhoni and his fingers would have done against the WI pace attack?

 

Guys like Farokh Engineer and Buddhi Kunderan played in super weak Indian teams. kunderan once scored a 150+ in a day against a strong England team I believe. These guys as keepers alone were technically way ahead. However there were politics etc that none of these guys got a long career.

 

Gilchrist and Flower were the only 2 guys who revolutionized the role of a keeper bat and are once in a lifetime cricketers. Sanga I agree was a ATG batsman and not a ATG keeper-bat.

 

Smaraweera has a 50+ average but is not even a 2nd or 3rd tier ATG  because it is what it is.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Global.Baba

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, The Dark Horse said:

Andy flower, Sangakarra, Matt Prior, heck even Mushi have comparable or better average than Dhoni, but still only Dhoni is ATG

Here we are talking about whether Dhoni is an ATG WK/bat or not, not whether Andy flower, Sangakarra, Matt Prior are ATGs or not.  

Edited November 14, 2018 by rkt.india

[raki05]

10 hours ago, putrevus said:

Who said Wk  needs to score century in non Asian conditions to be called as legend.He batted mostly at no7 and 6 hundreds is perfectly fine at that position.He is no Adam Gilchrist or Andy Flower but he better than everyone else.

And who said a wicketkeeper batting at 6 should not score century. Besides there are Boucher, Alec Stewart, Sangakara(as an keeper bat), Johnny Bairstow,Ian Healy and few more were much better than him as a keeper bat what cricket were you watching where dhoni became legend in test. He is average keeper bat as per world standard nothing more so stop hyping him.

[rkt.india]

Sangakkara as a WK averages 40 after 48 tests, very close to Dhoni's 38.  As a batsman alone, he averages 66 from 88 tests.  I am sure had Dhoni batted up the order especially in SC, he too could have averaged 50 plus in SC conditions.

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, raki05 said:

And who said a wicketkeeper batting at 6 should not score century. Besides there are Boucher, Alec Stewart, Sangakara(as an keeper bat), Johnny Bairstow,Ian Healy and few more were much better than him as a keeper bat what cricket were you watching where dhoni became legend in test. He is average keeper bat as per world standard nothing more so stop hyping him.

Bairstaw averages 37 after 59 tests, so much for being better WK/bat than Dhoni and his keeping anyway is atrocious.  Mark boucher averages around 30, same with Healy, Sanga averages 40 as a Wk/bat.  Alec Stewart kept in 82 tests averages 34 with 6 hundreds.  Is it better than Dhoni? 

[Bigg Brother]

4 hours ago, SK_IH said:

Dhoni was one of India's better batsman in Eng in 2014, keep your hate reasonable atleast.

Out of umpteen tours he played and one series wont make him atg..Keep your unconditional love to yourself.

[raki05]

21 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bairstaw averages 37 after 59 tests, so much for being better WK/bat than Dhoni and his keeping anyway is atrocious.  Mark boucher averages around 30, same with Healy, Sanga averages 40 as a Wk/bat.  Alec Stewart kept in 82 tests averages 34 with 6 hundreds.  Is it better than Dhoni? 

Alec Stewart batting AVG is 40 in 133 test why u consider only 82. Also Boucher and Healy was better were better keeper compare to overhyped dhoni whose keeping against pac bowler was downright pathetic.

[SK_IH]

23 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bairstaw averages 37 after 59 tests, so much for being better WK/bat than Dhoni and his keeping anyway is atrocious.  Mark boucher averages around 30, same with Healy, Sanga averages 40 as a Wk/bat.  Alec Stewart kept in 82 tests averages 34 with 6 hundreds.  Is it better than Dhoni? 

Boucher better than Dhoni lol, some might suggest Boucher's hands and fingers were better/stronger so he was better 

 

in last decade post Gilly, i would say only Prior was a better wk batsman than Dhoni because of higher ratio of clutch innings

[SK_IH]

4 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

Out of umpteen tours he played and one series wont make him atg..Keep your unconditional love to yourself.

3 tours and was a success in two of them and no one is suggesting he was an ATG, debate with facts if you have any

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

Boucher better than Dhoni lol, some might suggest Boucher's hands and fingers were better/stronger so he was better 

 

in last decade post Gilly, i would say only Prior was a better wk batsman than Dhoni because of higher ratio of clutch innings

yes, Prior was a better bat.  he could play even as a specialist bat and would have done well.

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Alec Stewart batting AVG is 40 in 133 test why u consider only 82. Also Boucher and Healy was better were better keeper compare to overhyped dhoni whose keeping against pac bowler was downright pathetic.

he kept wickets only in 82 tests, so consider those 82 tests for comparison with Dhoni where he played a wk/bat.  he did not play as a wk/bat for all 133 tests.  Boucher did not have keep wickets against likes of Kumble, Bhajji, Ashwin, Jaddu on rank turners as well.  it goes both ways.  Healy as a batsman was no where close to Dhoni.  

Edited November 14, 2018 by rkt.india

[SK_IH]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

yes, Prior was a better bat.  he could play even as a specialist bat and would have done well.

and Prior improved tremendously as a keeper later on , earlier he played primarily because of his batting abilities and was a dud as a keeper

Edited November 14, 2018 by SK_IH

[rkt.india]

9 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

Out of umpteen tours he played and one series wont make him atg..Keep your unconditional love to yourself.

Even in 2011, he was our 2nd or 3rd best batsman

[The Dark Horse]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Here we are talking about whether Dhoni is an ATG WK/bat or not, not whether Andy flower, Sangakarra, Matt Prior are ATGs or not.  

Dhoni is not ATG in tests. ATG's meaning is he's significantly better/ standing out from peers. Gilchrist is one, Sanga is one, Andy Flower is one. Dhoni is not. He may be an Indian ATG that too purely with stats after battering hapless bowlers on flat wickets.

Edited November 14, 2018 by The Dark Horse