R!TTER Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Just now, Muloghonto said: You guys seriously need to understand/read about IWT and various other water treaties involving upper & lower riparian nations ( pre- EU Danube river water sharing is another good study, so is that of Nile for eg). Long story short, via either mutual agreement (rare) or neutral arbitration( most common), riparian nations come to the agreement of what % of water belongs to whom. This agreement takes into account agricultural needs & populations, etc. but is actually a negotiated point. As such, one common feature of such treaties is the extreme aversion of lower riparian states to grant water-holding dams and reservoir rights to the upper riparian nations. In this respect, Pakistan is no anomaly, they do what every lower riparian nation does - they protest tooth and nail. As such, it is also convention that upper riparian nations usually are allowed only 'run of the river power generation schemes' instead of massive dams. This means, if we are actually unable to use the water allocated to us in terms of irrigation & human direct usage, we have no option but to let the water through. The 'loophole' in this scheme of things is the whole 'diversion of water to another estuary/canal via barrage type construction' angle. Which is also what India does for eg, at Farakka barrage during the dry seasons. What all this mumbo-jumbo means, is that until we have a way to LINK the Chenab, Jhelum, Ravi, Sutlej to Yamuna/Ganga etc. we do not have the ability to hold back our share of water. Thanks to Modi's long term river linking project being online ( and it will take another 30-40 years to pan out completely), this is now possible. And Modi government chose the PERFECT time for announcing its commencement, to completely bowl over usual Pakistani whining and PR campaign over the IWT in the international forums. Seriously, this is NOT chutiyapa, but excellent timing on all fronts over something that is going to hurt them far more than it will benefit us, yet we are entitled to. This was the late ABV's vision, no point in crediting Modi for everything. Also any official details about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Muloghonto said: You guys seriously need to understand/read about IWT and various other water treaties involving upper & lower riparian nations ( pre- EU Danube river water sharing is another good study, so is that of Nile for eg). Long story short, via either mutual agreement (rare) or neutral arbitration( most common), riparian nations come to the agreement of what % of water belongs to whom. This agreement takes into account agricultural needs & populations, etc. but is actually a negotiated point. As such, one common feature of such treaties is the extreme aversion of lower riparian states to grant water-holding dams and reservoir rights to the upper riparian nations. In this respect, Pakistan is no anomaly, they do what every lower riparian nation does - they protest tooth and nail. As such, it is also convention that upper riparian nations usually are allowed only 'run of the river power generation schemes' instead of massive dams. This means, if we are actually unable to use the water allocated to us in terms of irrigation & human direct usage, we have no option but to let the water through. The 'loophole' in this scheme of things is the whole 'diversion of water to another estuary/canal via barrage type construction' angle. Which is also what India does for eg, at Farakka barrage during the dry seasons. What all this mumbo-jumbo means, is that until we have a way to LINK the Chenab, Jhelum, Ravi, Sutlej to Yamuna/Ganga etc. we do not have the ability to hold back our share of water. Thanks to Modi's long term river linking project being online ( and it will take another 30-40 years to pan out completely), this is now possible. And Modi government chose the PERFECT time for announcing its commencement, to completely bowl over usual Pakistani whining and PR campaign over the IWT in the international forums. Seriously, this is NOT chutiyapa, but excellent timing on all fronts over something that is going to hurt them far more than it will benefit us, yet we are entitled to. and people think you can just stop a river as a big as Indus having 168 million acres of foot print overnight without thinking how much floods and damage it can cause if things are not executed well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, R!TTER said: This was the late ABV's vision, no point in crediting Modi for everything. Also any official details about this? vision and implementation are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R!TTER Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Yes & I'm asking the details about far we've come, even then ABV's team drew a plan to implement this, but then 2004 elections happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jf1gp_1 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 IWT was signed in 1960, its only taken 59 yrs to ANNOUNCE that we will keep our share of water. Its sad on how its sold in India. I bet even in pak its sold as if India is going to block their share of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 45 minutes ago, R!TTER said: Yes & I'm asking the details about far we've come, even then ABV's team drew a plan to implement this, but then 2004 elections happened. http://mowr.gov.in/schemes-projects-programmes/schemes/interlinking-rivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 15 hours ago, Real McCoy said: Republic TV was saying this move is much more effective than srugical strikes. I dont see how its more effective. We have to watch this term surgical strikes also. AFAIK I have never seen this in international news. This govt is better than Congress but have they done anything special. I guess this guy needs another chance but the patience is running thin The most decisive blow was MFN withdrawal. It is something that will worsen the financial crisis in Pakistan. The positive about this government was the better sheild to people from terrorism acts, or if they were carries, there would be a much severe impact on those carrying it. Given there is nothing immediate decisive action done by government apart from MFN withdrawal. People might switch sides if nothing significant happens before this elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R!TTER Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Just now, Straight Drive said: The most decisive blow was MFN withdrawal. It is something that will worsen the financial crisis in Pakistan. The positive about this government was the better sheild to people from terrorism acts, or if they were carries, there would be a much severe impact on those carrying it. Given there is nothing immediate decisive action done by government apart from MFN withdrawal. People might switch sides if nothing significant happens before this elections. And they will, rightly so. MFN status doesn't affect Pak much nor does taking back our water. Where are we hitting Pak hard? SA, China did nothing even when we pushed them, Pak is still on the grey list of FATF not black. We are still thinking about playing them in the WC Are we still entertaining the thought of dialogue or do we take strict actions, no wait we're still in "gahan chintan/manthan" - the results of which will be out after the elections! Edited February 23, 2019 by R!TTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, R!TTER said: And they will, rightly so. MFN status doesn't affect Pak much nor does taking back our water. Where are we hitting Pak hard? SA, China did nothing even when we pushed them, Pak is still on the grey list of FATF not black. We are still thinking about playing them in the WC Are we still entertaining the thought of dialogue or do we take strict actions, no wait we're still in "gahan chintan/manthan" - the results of which will be out after the elections! With the 10% we donate to them, Pakistan is still at -15% water requirement overall as a nation. With us using up our 10%, this translates to putting Pakistan ~ -30% water requirement. We hurt their agri base, which is the biggest way to hurt it without American style embargos (which has no effect from our end anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollack Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Muloghonto said: With the 10% we donate to them, Pakistan is still at -15% water requirement overall as a nation. With us using up our 10%, this translates to putting Pakistan ~ -30% water requirement. We hurt their agri base, which is the biggest way to hurt it without American style embargos (which has no effect from our end anyways). With so called -15% they have managed somehow and ~-30% doesn't sound much denting. They will still manage. Don't know from where you get all these % stuff. IMO waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 hours ago, R!TTER said: And they will, rightly so. MFN status doesn't affect Pak much nor does taking back our water. Where are we hitting Pak hard? SA, China did nothing even when we pushed them, Pak is still on the grey list of FATF not black. We are still thinking about playing them in the WC Are we still entertaining the thought of dialogue or do we take strict actions, no wait we're still in "gahan chintan/manthan" - the results of which will be out after the elections! This elections will be interesting for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibarn Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 6 hours ago, rkt.india said: they did not start it years ago. it was started after Pathankot and Uri when Modi had said that khoon aur paani ek saht nahi beh sakte. You dont need to announce or do anything new, just implement the plan firmly. That's what I meant... They announced this for the first time under this government itself. Patankot was in 2016. Why did BJP feel the need to mislead the people and activate some media assets to sell this as something new, relative to Pulwama? It is effectively misleading the public, announcing something one already announced earlier for a second time, don't you think? It would've been more honest to explain in a press-conference what the progress of the project is relative to the starting data. I think anyone can easily understand that these water-harnessing projects can take a long time to come to fruition, even IWT will take upwards of a decade to build the necessary infrastructure, but if the Centre explains to the people, then they will understand. Instead here, they take the junta as fools, like no one will check what they are talking about. I understand the need to placate an angry junta, but if people catch you misleading them, they will help turn their anger towards you. Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 2/23/2019 at 12:24 AM, Pollack said: With so called -15% they have managed somehow and ~-30% doesn't sound much denting. They will still manage. Don't know from where you get all these % stuff. IMO waste of time. figuring out % water loss/gain is pretty easy math, bud. And if you think 30% shortfall is not a big change from 15% shortfall in national water usage for an agricultural nation of 200 million, it would be safe to say, you understand nothing of the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollack Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: figuring out % water loss/gain is pretty easy math, bud. And if you think 30% shortfall is not a big change from 15% shortfall in national water usage for an agricultural nation of 200 million, it would be safe to say, you understand nothing of the topic. Still trying to figure out the figures I. your post. Laaloo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laaloo Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 36 minutes ago, Pollack said: Still trying to figure out the figures I. your post. Ghonto is too smart for his own good.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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