The folly of choosing some specialist bowlers just because they are left armers or can bat a bit

[express bowling]

27 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Completely agree with you.  For important games.  For meaningless bilaterals against Windies and Bangladesh? meh.  Not the worst thing to give longer rope to a guy, even if it is to rule him out going forward.

 

I don't think Khaleel needs to be ruled out. He has good qualities like getting steep bounce from just short of a length. And can be sharp when he wants.

 

But he needs some FC experience which he lacks dearly. Because he was with our LOI squad during the last Ranji season, he missed almost all, if not all the matches. 

 

He was fast tracked ... I really liked it when it happened ... but a handful of games cleared showed that he needs FC experience badly ... because he kept dropping pace, losing accuracy, changing his bowling style etc. All signs of a raw bowler.  

 

So, he should be allowed to gain FC experience and come back when ready. 

 

The same thing should be done with Prasidh, Mavi, Nagarkoti, Avesh etc.  They all should be allowed to play the full Ranji season because they need FC experience to develop as bowlers.

 

And games against weaker teams should be used develop the more ready but relatively new pacers.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by express bowling

[sandeep]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

He was fast tracked ... I really liked it when it happened ... but a handful of games cleared showed that he needs FC experience badly ... because he kept dropping pace, losing accuracy, changing his bowling style etc. All signs of a raw bowler.  

 

So, he should be allowed to gain FC experience and come back when ready. 

I see your point, and don't disagree.  But willing to give the mgmt a benefit of doubt that maybe they are seeing him up close everyday in nets, etc.  And they think there's enough there to keep him around - at least for some inconsequential games.  

 

If as a team, you want to have the best chance of having the best possible left-arm pace option available for your T20 WC squad - what adds more value to your team?  Playing Khaleel in an extra 4-5 games? or giving a random Saini or Prasidh a couple of games - knowing that your first choice for right arm pace is already quite deep - Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami, Chahar, and a few others.  

[express bowling]

25 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I see your point, and don't disagree.  But willing to give the mgmt a benefit of doubt that maybe they are seeing him up close everyday in nets, etc.  And they think there's enough there to keep him around - at least for some inconsequential games.  

 

Fair enough ... as long as we are talking about grooming a young pacer by keeping him around the team ( and not doing this just because he is s left armer )

 

 

25 minutes ago, sandeep said:

If as a team, you want to have the best chance of having the best possible left-arm pace option available for your T20 WC squad - what adds more value to your team?  Playing Khaleel in an extra 4-5 games? or giving a random Saini or Prasidh a couple of games - knowing that your first choice for right arm pace is already quite deep - Bhuvi, Bumrah, Shami, Chahar, and a few others.  

 

And that is exactly the point of my OP.

 

What is the need to have a best possible left arm option  ?    How much value is added to a team by this step ... or is it better to just use every opportunity to develop the best possible pace bowling options.

 

Variety can come via different bowling styles and differeng heights of pacers too. Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and Bhuvi are all very different bowlers to face for this reason.

 

 

[sandeep]

Just now, express bowling said:

What is the need to have a best possible left arm option  ?    How much value is added to a team by this step

For longer formats, I completely agree with you - for T20, I think match-ups and variations end up having disproportionate impact.  

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

for T20, I think match-ups and variations end up having disproportionate impact.  

 

I agree.

 

But need to add that among our right arm T20I pacers, facing Bumrah is very different from facing Saini and facing either is very different from facing Bhuvi or Chahar ( who are somewhat similar ). 

[Vijy]

On 11/6/2019 at 10:46 PM, express bowling said:

The fast bowling trio of Bumrah, Shami and Ishant have created ripples in test matches in the last couple of years. They have taken the highest number of wickets in a calender year for a pace bowling trio in the history of test cricket , in 2018.  And have won us test matches and test series abroad too. But none of them are left armers and none among them can bat.

 

Looking at the legendary pace attacks from the WI,  which dominated cricket from 1976 to 1995  ... which included Roberts, Garner, Holding, Croft, Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh etc. ... there wasn't a single left armer among them. And only Marshall could bat somewhat. 

 

The great Aussie teams of the 1994 to 2008 period, did not feature any successful left armers in test matches either. Nor did they have any regular left arm pacers in ODIs in the 1990s.  Warne and Lee were decent with the bat but not all-rounder level. And they were picked because they were exceptional bowlers and not because they could bat a bit.

 

The left arm variation makes sense only if there are 2 or more pacers who are of similar quality ... and we pick the left armer for variation. Reducing the quality of a pacer, just because he offers a variation, does not make sense.

 

Similarly, a specialist bowler should primarily be picked based on his bowling skills. Yes ... among the 4 specialist bowlers ... it would be nice if atleast one, who would bat at 8, can bat somewhat. But he too should first be a top bowler, like Ashwin or Jadeja in tests in Asia.

 

Also, make the top bowlers hone their batting skills in the nets. Kumble worked on this aspect during his tenure. This is much better than picking a bad bowler just because he can bat a bit.

 

We suddenly see our LOI team bowlers being picked because of their batting skills. And there seems to be a quota for a left arm seamer irrespective of his quality.

 

I think left armer Khaleel has potential in the long term if he can learn to sustain pace and stops reducing pace intentionally. Also, he must stick to his strength of hitting the deck hard, as getting disconcerting bounce was the USP which got him early success. But he must be allowed to play one or two seasons of domestic FC cricket and allowed to develop as a bowler.

 

But stop preferring Khaleel over other pacers just because he is a left armer.

 

Kuldeep Yadav, who has had superlative success in all 3 formats and has won us many games, is suddenly out of favour supposedly because he is not a good batsman. And this does not make any cricketing sense.  Picking Washington Sundar, Shardul Thakur etc. because they can bat a bit, makes no sense.

 

This has resulted in a bowling attack which has 4 out of 5 bowlers like Sundar, Khaleel, Krunal, Shardul, D.Chahar. 

 

Please pick specialist bowlers based primarily on their bowling ability and not because of other aspects.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

we seem to be devolving towards the 90s mentality of bits-and-pieces players. what people fail to see is that such cricketers would get a massive tonking (with some notable exceptions) if they played in today's pitches, bats, rules, batting & bowling mentalities, etc.

[MK55]

@express bowling you’re one of the main reasons I keep showing up on this forum!! 
love reading your posts!

[express bowling]

48 minutes ago, MK55 said:

@express bowling you’re one of the main reasons I keep showing up on this forum!! 
love reading your posts!

 

Thanks bro !

[express bowling]

Economy rates of Shardul Thakur in recent LOIs vs Australia and NZ

 

ODI vs Australia  

8.6

 

T20Is vs NZ

11.0

10.5

7.0

8.3

9.5

 

ODIs vs NZ

8.9 

 

A very very expensive bowler.

 

What is the use of those occasional 10 extra runs if he gives away more runs than he scores.

 

His highest runs in both ODIs and T20Is is 22. So it is not as if we are talking about regular 40+ or 50+ run innings.

 

Please don't pick mediocre bowlers because they can score 10 extra runs occasionally.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by express bowling

[raki05]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Economy rates of Shardul Thakur in recent LOIs vs Australia and NZ

 

ODIs vs Australia  

8.6

 

T20Is vs NZ

11.0

10.5

7.0

8.3

9.5

 

ODIs vs NZ

8.9 so far

 

A very very expensive bowler.

 

What is the use of those occasion 10 extra runs if he gives away more runs than he scores.

 

His highest runs in both ODIs and T20Is is 22. So it is not as if we are talking about regular 40+ or 50+ run innings.

 

Please don't pick mediocre bowlers because they can score 10 extra runs occasionally.

 

 

 

 

You can ask this to Kohli spokes person on ICF.

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

cant put it any better

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

 

When did he go away. ?