Fcuk China

[sandeep]

27 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

 

The virus did come from the bat.

 

But the big question is - Did the virus jump from animals to humans naturally or was it manually extracted in a lab and got spread outside? If the second case is true, then the intentions are questionable.

Even if the spread was accidental, my focus is on the choices that the CCP made - to hide and obfuscate facts from their own people and rest of the world.  They have a habit of lying, cheating, censoring their own citizens - that is not good, but secondary. 

 

Lying and misleading the world about a dangerous risk, especially given the fact that the lying meant they would have an advantage - or at least not lying would put them at a disadvantage - this is what is questionable.  

 

Lab accidents happen, but China had a choice to keep lying about the origin, but at least be honest and warn the rest of the world about the spread. They chose not to.  They chose to threaten and bully countries and UN organizations to keep transit from Wuhan open to the world, when they should have shut it down.  These choices meant the world is suffering from a disaster that it didn't need to.  But for Chinese lying. 

 

"China is asshoe" - memes sometimes speak the truth.

[Singh bling]

32 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

 

The virus did come from the bat.

 

But the big question is - Did the virus jump from animals to humans naturally or was it manually extracted in a lab and got spread outside? If the second case is true, then the intentions are questionable.

The worst hit country is USA and they have best intelligence. Unless USA firmly say that it was intentional there is hardly any reason to believe.

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, Singh bling said:

According to ICMR virus came from bats.

Bat coronavirus' strain found in two species of bats in India: ICMR-NIV study

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/bat-coronavirus-strain-found-in-two-species-of-bats-in-india-icmr-niv-study/article31345046.ece/amp/

 

 

Yes, it came from bats but bats were in the virology lab in Wuhan for research on corona virus. From those bats, it entered into the scientists and then spread outside.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

Funny thing is, Guardian is leftiest of left Outlet. Role of WHO so far has been nothing but questionable. Either they colluded with China more than they should have, or they are just Chinese mouthpiece 

I heard WHO was established by Rockefellers? 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I don't think that WHO has such powers to make such demands from powerful countries like China

You "think" a lot of stupid s**t.  Go research the SARS outbreak, and what rules the UN and WHO mandated in terms of the requirements and obligations of countries to communicate with the rest of the world.  Rules that were actually in place since 1969, but China's shameless lying and cover-ups after SARS meant that the world tightened the rules up further.  Rules that the Chinese government signed up for btw, and promptly failed to follow, with COVID19.  

 

Your ignorance is not an excuse when you peddle nonsense opinions - it is up to you to factcheck yourself before you go around making silly claims.  And don't whinge like a little baby when you get called out on your nonsense.  Calling me a "secret muslim" or "Trump" isn't going to work anyway.  All you are doing is embarassing yourself further.  Keep going though, you do you - we proud ourselves on an open diverse community on this forum.  That means suffering fools from time to time. 

 

 

[rkt.india]

25 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

The worst hit country is USA and they have best intelligence. Unless USA firmly say that it was intentional there is hardly any reason to believe.

There is certainly a reason to believe that. Intelligence hardly works in closed countries like China. There were no bat selling supermarkets in Wuhan. 

[Alam_dar]

32 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Even if the spread was accidental, my focus is on the choices that the CCP made - to hide and obfuscate facts from their own people and rest of the world.  They have a habit of lying, cheating, censoring their own citizens - that is not good, but secondary. 

 

Lying and misleading the world about a dangerous risk, especially given the fact that the lying meant they would have an advantage - or at least not lying would put them at a disadvantage - this is what is questionable.  

 

Lab accidents happen, but China had a choice to keep lying about the origin, but at least be honest and warn the rest of the world about the spread. They chose not to.  They chose to threaten and bully countries and UN organizations to keep transit from Wuhan open to the world, when they should have shut it down.  These choices meant the world is suffering from a disaster that it didn't need to.  But for Chinese lying. 

 

"China is asshoe" - memes sometimes speak the truth.

I have exactly the same opinion about Chinese government. They lie in name of "Nationalism". 

 

But does Trump don't lie in the same name of "Nationalism"? 

 

Chinese government downplayed the severity of the virus for 3 weeks (till 23rd January i.e. lockdown). But Trump was also denying any spread of Virus in US and wasted whole 4 weeks of February till accepting that this virus is indeed dangerous and he should stop the "economic" activities and go for the lockdown. I believe that same was the case with China and they didn't want to stop their economic activities. 

 

In both cases, people are going to die. Therefore, I hate this excessive  "nationalism", and consider it to be an evil against the humanity. All nationalists lie and don't care much about other human beings. 

 

And reality is this that Trump was in much better position to challenge China with help of his stronger position and also intelligence agencies. If I am not mistaken, then China didn't declare any new case of Coronavirus between 4 Feb till 21st Feb. I wonder why CIA was unable to get the intelligence from hospitals of Wuhan if new cases of Coronavirus are being reported there or not. 

 

And I proposed that ONLY solution to this situation is this to make UNO and WHO more stronger and more independent. All countries should sign on a pact that WHO has full authority to start investigations in any part of the world at it's own, and all governments have to assist WHO unconditionally. But Trump's behaviour of destroying UNO and WHO is pure stupidity. 

 

I don't see that any of you have anything to say in defence of Trump. You are criticising WHO, but you also have not mentioned any alternative option.

 

 

[Alam_dar]

18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

There is certainly a reason to believe that. Intelligence hardly works in closed countries like China.

Yes, China and Iran and Saudi Arabia like dictatorships are worse. I am all for much more UN human rights facts finding role in all the countries (which also include countries like Pakistan and India, while both these countries are also not angels and able to do evil things in name of nationalism and religion). 

 

Quote

There were no bat selling supermarkets in Wuhan. 

Yes, there are bat selling supermarkets in Wuhan. Bat soup is one of the favourite dish of Chinese people. 

 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

The worst hit country is USA and they have best intelligence. Unless USA firmly say that it was intentional there is hardly any reason to believe.

Agreed.

[sandeep]

16 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

I have exactly the same opinion about Chinese government. They lie in name of "Nationalism". 

 

But does Trump don't lie in the same name of "Nationalism"? 

 

Chinese government downplayed the severity of the virus for 3 weeks (till 23rd January i.e. lockdown). But Trump was also denying any spread of Virus in US and wasted whole 4 weeks of February till accepting that this virus is indeed dangerous and he should stop the "economic" activities and go for the lockdown. I believe that same was the case with China and they didn't want to stop their economic activities. 

 

In both cases, people are going to die. Therefore, I hate this excessive  "nationalism", and consider it to be an evil against the humanity. All nationalists lie and don't care much about other human beings. 

 

And reality is this that Trump was in much better position to challenge China with help of his stronger position and also intelligence agencies. If I am not mistaken, then China didn't declare any new case of Coronavirus between 4 Feb till 21st Feb. I wonder why CIA was unable to get the intelligence from hospitals of Wuhan if new cases of Coronavirus are being reported there or not. 

 

And I proposed that ONLY solution to this situation is this to make UNO and WHO more stronger and more independent. All countries should sign on a pact that WHO has full authority to start investigations in any part of the world at it's own, and all governments have to assist WHO unconditionally. But Trump's behaviour of destroying UNO and WHO is pure stupidity. 

 

I don't see that any of you have anything to say in defence of Trump. You are criticising WHO, but you also have not mentioned any alternative option.

 

 

Empty Vessel.

[Alam_dar]

33 minutes ago, sandeep said:

You "think" a lot of stupid s**t.  Go research the SARS outbreak, and what rules the UN and WHO mandated in terms of the requirements and obligations of countries to communicate with the rest of the world.  Rules that were actually in place since 1969, but China's shameless lying and cover-ups after SARS meant that the world tightened the rules up further.  Rules that the Chinese government signed up for btw, and promptly failed to follow, with COVID19.  

There have been many Rules already there, but are the powerful nations really obeying these rules? 

What power did WHO had to "compel" China to allow them to enter Wuhan and make their own investigations? 

Did Trump  ask WHO till end of FEBRUARY to not to believe in Chinese stats and enter themselves in Wuhan?

 

 

33 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Your ignorance is not an excuse when you peddle nonsense opinions - it is up to you to factcheck yourself before you go around making silly claims.  And don't whinge like a little baby when you get called out on your nonsense.  Calling me a "secret muslim" or "Trump" isn't going to work anyway.  All you are doing is embarassing yourself further.  Keep going though, you do you - we proud ourselves on an open diverse community on this forum.  That means suffering fools from time to time. 

Unfortunately, it is not my ignorance, but the bitter Truth of our world.  

Facts are these that UNO and WHO are still not powerful enough to compel individual countries to follow their rules. There is huge human rights violation all over the world, and UNO is unable to play any role there and save the humanity. 

 

And now you are angry upon me while I told you that your attitude of constantly abusing me is no different than Trump's attitude of blaming all his opponents as fake. I have requested you multiple times to please come up with arguments and indulge in positive discussion with me. Unfortunately, you are not listening to my requests. 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Even if the spread was accidental, my focus is on the choices that the CCP made - to hide and obfuscate facts from their own people and rest of the world.  They have a habit of lying, cheating, censoring their own citizens - that is not good, but secondary. 

 

Lying and misleading the world about a dangerous risk, especially given the fact that the lying meant they would have an advantage - or at least not lying would put them at a disadvantage - this is what is questionable.  

 

Lab accidents happen, but China had a choice to keep lying about the origin, but at least be honest and warn the rest of the world about the spread. They chose not to.  They chose to threaten and bully countries and UN organizations to keep transit from Wuhan open to the world, when they should have shut it down.  These choices meant the world is suffering from a disaster that it didn't need to.  But for Chinese lying. 

 

"China is asshoe" - memes sometimes speak the truth.

CCP's integrity has took a hit. Relations with India have definitely gone way down. Even if hypothetically CCP realizes it's mistakes and becomes good tomorrow, it will takes years for the relationship to heal.

[Singh bling]

41 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

There is certainly a reason to believe that. Intelligence hardly works in closed countries like China. There were no bat selling supermarkets in Wuhan. 

US intelligence did operations in Soviet which was virtually a closed nation. China with lots of FDI and exports is just cakewalk compared to that. If USA intelligence did fail then USA is no longer the most powerful  nation on earth.

[rising]

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

 

The virus did come from the bat.

 

But the big question is - Did the virus jump from animals to humans naturally or was it manually extracted in a lab and got spread outside? If the second case is true, then the intentions are questionable.

 

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

No, no, no, no.... You trust CCP too much.

 

China knew about the human to human transmission of the virus long back and Taiwan did inform the WHO about it as well, which the WHO ignored deliberately. 

 

Again, the origins of the virus is not yet officially confirmed and the theory that CCP deliberately created it cannot be ruled out yet.

 

I think China knew about the virus but the believed they can control it and they had yet fully understand its danger later and WHO didn't wanted some sold information before they could say anything ad they didn't have power to get that at start and based on Taiwan they couldn't risk as China is powerful country and getting it wrong might have repercussions 

 

 

4 hours ago, mishra said:

Funny thing is, Guardian is leftiest of left Outlet. Role of WHO so far has been nothing but questionable. Either they colluded with China more than they should have, or they are just Chinese mouthpiece 

They have not colluded with china they just relied on what China said didn't have power to do their own research

 

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

They had the authority to push China for more information, and honesty.  They chose not to.  They chose to "kow-tow".  Go and google what that word means, Mr fake atheist.

There was so much information available its  just who you believed China building hospitals should been red flag enough and even with information I don't think so much would have changed Trump was dismissing it as threat in early March I think for USA with so much information

 

2 hours ago, MechEng said:

 

 

The virus did come from the bat.

 

But the big question is - Did the virus jump from animals to humans naturally or was it manually extracted in a lab and got spread outside? If the second case is true, then the intentions are questionable.

Virus most probably  have come naturally or  but can't rule out accident in lab but one can sure it was not intentional as  no country would infect its people with Virus which might lead to collapse of country 

[MechEng]

17 minutes ago, rising said:

 

 

I think China knew about the virus but the believed they can control it and they had yet fully understand its danger later and WHO didn't wanted some sold information before they could say anything ad they didn't have power to get that at start and based on Taiwan they couldn't risk as China is powerful country and getting it wrong might have repercussions 

 

 

They have not colluded with china they just relied on what China said didn't have power to do their own research

 

There was so much information available its  just who you believed China building hospitals should been red flag enough and even with information I don't think so much would have changed Trump was dismissing it as threat in early March I think for USA with so much information

 

Virus most probably  have come naturally or  but can't rule out accident in lab but one can sure it was not intentional as  no country would infect its people with Virus which might lead to collapse of country 

Fair points. Makes me less cynical.

[sandeep]

20 minutes ago, rising said:

There was so much information available its  just who you believed China building hospitals should been red flag enough and even with information I don't think so much would have changed Trump was dismissing it as threat in early March I think for USA with so much information

The US govt f*ked up and did so massively.  No question.  But that does not excuse CCP lies and delays that occurred earlier in the piece.  

[Alam_dar]

We all saw that UN was totally "helpless" in many conflicts, and thus millions of people died in the weaker and poor countries.

 

But powerful nations didn't mind it much, as they thought that they would never suffer this fate. Thus powerful countries never tried to make UN independent enough to interfere in their affairs too. 

 

But coronavirus indeed became headache for them too and their people are also suffering the same fate, as the people of weaker countries suffered for decades due to the helplessness of UN. 

 

It should be a wake up call for the whole world. 

 

Modern world is interconnected with each other. We need a stronger and independent UN to solve all type of disputes on the table, so that nations need not to go to the battlefields to solve their disputes. 

[mishra]

 

Quote

 

Coronavirus: Trump says 'we'll see' about Wuhan lab claims

President Donald Trump has said "we'll see" about unsubstantiated claims that coronavirus originated in a Chinese laboratory.

In a report attributed to multiple unnamed sources, Fox News said the coronavirus was a naturally occurring pathogen that leaked from a Wuhan facility because of lax safety protocols, infecting an intern, who then transmitted it to her boyfriend.

In the president's daily briefing on Wednesday, he was asked by Fox News reporter John Roberts if he could confirm the cable network's exclusive. "Well, I don't want to say that, John, but I will tell you more and more we're hearing the story and we'll see," Mr Trump replied.

 

 

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, Singh bling said:

US intelligence did operations in Soviet which was virtually a closed nation. China with lots of FDI and exports is just cakewalk compared to that. If USA intelligence did fail then USA is no longer the most powerful  nation on earth.

There is difference between what happened 40 years back and now. That was a time cold war so intelligence was extremely active.  Soviets and Americans had animosity claiming to be superpowers. World changed completely with globalization. It changed intelligence activities too. US and China are trade partners, not enemies.  

[Gollum]