Manny_Pacquiao Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, sandeep said: Serious question: and i ask because i respect your intelligence...which part do you disagree with? Here's my reading of the situation: Amreeka sees india as a counter-weight to china. It will [selectively] help india politically, economically and militarily to contain chinese hegemony in the region. Amreeka has its hands full with one china, they don't want a 2nd china emerging in asia. China sees india as a potential competitor challenging it's hegemony in the region. china wants a unipolar asia. they don't want india to be anything more than a market for their products and services. if amreeka and china get together for lunch, and they discuss india, what do you think they're gonna say to each other?
MechEng Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said: Serious question: and i ask because i respect your intelligence...which part do you disagree with? Here's my reading of the situation: Amreeka sees india as a counter-weight to china. It will [selectively] help india politically, economically and militarily to contain chinese hegemony in the region. Amreeka has its hands full with one china, they don't want a 2nd china emerging in asia. China sees india as a potential competitor challenging it's hegemony in the region. china wants a unipolar asia. they don't want india to be anything more than a market for their products and services. if amreeka and china get together for lunch, and they discuss india, what do you think they're gonna say to each other? Probably true, considering the most important factor - both have an ageing population.
sandeep Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said: ..which part do you disagree with? This part - 45 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: in fact, heres a little secret - BOTH AMERICA AND CHINA SEE THE CONTAINMENT OF INDIA AS IN THEIR MUTUAL INTEREST. That's right. neither of these countries wants india to become economically or politically self-sufficient. and they WILL TEAM UP to keep india the gareeb, third world country that it is. China will not even acknowledge India as a 'rival' it prefers to see India bucketed as a '3rd world' sub-regional "hegemon". All the while working actively to pin India down using the greenbros, and the rest of India's neighborhood. India is not going to be a threat to the US, in the next 50 years, even in the best ever possible scenario for Indian growth and development. Their interests simply do not have the conflict. The US-China rivalry has graduated and crystallized into one that's much more concrete, so that the prospect of US and China "collaborating to keep India down" sounds like a 1970s rabid Sanghi's wet dream, and has no connection to this present reality.
Manny_Pacquiao Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: Pakistan has not been the beneficiary of American armaments for the longest time. That’s why they had to get second hand f16s from Jordan. All of Pakistans missiles and tanks are Of China origins. Sorry but you are plain super ignorant, talking about 70s and 80s when India was in the Soviet bloc. india is so far behind China in the big power game that it is only in amrikas interest to prop up India. Amrika did the same with China To contain USSR who became an ideological foe to China even within the realm of communism No super power likes to be unseated. Not sure where you're getting that information from. US sold $5.4 billion worth of F16s, ammunition and missiles to pakistan between 2001-2014. source: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/pakarms.pdf if you have better information, feel free to show me. I'm not even gonna mention the "aid" that pakistan received for the "war on terror". let's be honest, Amreeka supported musharraf's military dictatorship for years, even after the cold war. maybe you're mis-understanding me. i am thinking more long-term. i agree that amreeka will treat india as a counter-weight to china AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. but amreeka won't allow india to become a strong, self-sufficient nation. THAT is the point i'm making. they don't want to take the risk propping up india to see india become an adversary. do you disagree? also, keep in mind...if amreeka treats india as a counter-weight to china...they could treat pakistan as a counter-weight to india. think of it from the amreekan point of view...if india goes the china route and becomes an amreekan adversary, or even a chinese ally, they're in trouble. THAT is why they support india being a democracy, because they can at least change the government in india. they can't do that in china. Frankly, i would welcome india going against both america and china...because i like the idea of a self-sufficient india that competes to become a major power on its own right, rather than being some small pawn in someone else's game. the likelihood is, for india to become a true middle income country, one of the two existing super powers - either amreeka or china - will have to weaken significantly over the next 50 years.
Real McCoy Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Manny_Pacquiao said: has it occurred to you...that maybe china wasn't the only one behind this? that maybe the united states has an interest in waging biological warfare and creating a stronger, authoritarian government at home? that american companies benefit immensely from the sale of cheap medical devices? use your brains. its not as simple as the screaming media and twitter personalities would have you believe. Bingo. More importantly a country in the middle east has got US and UK's balls and have infiltrated them with their people. You could say they have infiltrated almost every other country in the world with their banking but these two are special because one is the banking hub of the world and the other one is the military engine of the world
sandeep Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said: but amreeka won't allow india to become a strong, self-sufficient nation. THAT is the point i'm making. if that were the case, why did amreeka "allow" China to become this strong? This sort of simplistic, naive, conspiracy thinking is not worth the digital bits its written on.
Manny_Pacquiao Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, sandeep said: This part - China will not even acknowledge India as a 'rival' it prefers to see India bucketed as a '3rd world' sub-regional "hegemon". All the while working actively to pin India down using the greenbros, and the rest of India's neighborhood. India is not going to be a threat to the US, in the next 50 years, even in the best ever possible scenario for Indian growth and development. Their interests simply do not have the conflict. The US-China rivalry has graduated and crystallized into one that's much more concrete, so that the prospect of US and China "collaborating to keep India down" sounds like a 1970s rabid Sanghi's wet dream, and has no connection to this present reality. Your mistake is that you're seeing the current geo-political situation as long-term. it isn't. geo-political relations can change within a short period of time. China doesn't acknowledge india as a rival, but it knows that India can challenge it's hegemony in asia. india WILL, at some point within this decade, have the ability to influence politics within asia. that is guaranteed, even for the most pessimistic types. if not by itself, then as part of a small coalition with japan and other allies. and again....India, by itself, is not a threat to the USA. and for that matter, neither is china. But if India allies with china? then you bet it's a threat to the US. Currently...this is unlikely to happen, but the US thinks about these scenarios. The US-china rivalry isn't as 'crystallized' as you think, because both countries unquestionably DEPEND on each other. a few disagreements here and there don't prevent US and China doing business and finding a new middle ground. there are many different directions these relationships can go, and the scenario where US and China 'team up' - not just against india, but also the european union, and russia - isn't all that unlikely either. do you seriously think that america and china don't find common ground? that they don't sit down and flesh out these scenarios which are "win-win" ? come on. the point i'm making is: diplomacy isn't always a zero sum game. this is why 'rabid sanghis from the 70s' like our current PM play both sides. and why american flag waving indians are lacking perspective.
Manny_Pacquiao Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, sandeep said: if that were the case, why did amreeka "allow" China to become this strong? This sort of simplistic, naive, conspiracy thinking is not worth the digital bits its written on. because it benefited amreeka at the time. but amreeka, like anyone else, couldn't predict the future correctly. so numerous amreekan governments MADE MISTAKES in how they handled china. mistake number 1: allowing China to maintain authoritarian governance...under the assumption that a wealtheir china would become democratic. mistake number 2: allowing China to come to the WTO. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2129791/us-support-chinas-2001-wto-entry-mistake-trump do you really think they'll make the same mistakes twice, with india? How do you see them handling india, now that they've actually been through the "chinese experience"? you don't think that will have a impact on their foreign policy re: india? nothing i am saying is simplistic, nor is it based on conspiracy.
Manny_Pacquiao Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 @sandeep @rangeelaraja Look, instead of arguing with me, why don't you try telling me what the future holds for india if it gives more concessions to america? why should i be more "welcoming" of the americans than the chinese? i have no reason to. i think modi is playing this game perfectly. he plays both sides and waits. he gives very little away to america and american companies, which is why western media has completely turned against him by labelling him as a "hindu nationalist tyrant"...these were the guys who supported his PM campaign in 2014.
rising Posted March 23, 2020 Posted March 23, 2020 3 hours ago, rangeelaraja said: Everybody knows how China tried to hide the facts for about 1.5-2 months until they could not hide it anymore. Hundreds of millions came in and out of China in this time - result is the pandemic we find ourselves in. There is tremendous pent up anger as to how this criminal CCP regime has again proved that they would go to any extent to remain in power, including steps that kill ten of thousands. I hope and pray that the international community makes China pay an unbelievably high price - so much so that the CCP is overthrown due to internal unrest. China may not bad country but when new disease start its takes time to discover what virus is and how is spreads what symptoms are so China being has its though it could control it so was they did get much news out but once it started spread badly they informed, them building hospitals in 10 days should have been clue how dangerous it is but the world mostly chose to ignore Even in Countries like US its been more than 2 months since first case and they are started get test kits like 2 weeks ago so when US with 3 months notice and 2 months since first case are where struggling for test kits you can imagine how difficult there it would be with closed approach And also if watch Pandemic TV series in netfix, you still note that they say new Pandemic is inevitable , its just mater of when and show how US some company is preparing for it, and even then when it came they are struggling
rangeelaraja Posted March 23, 2020 Author Posted March 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, rising said: China may not bad country but when new disease start its takes time to discover what virus is and how is spreads what symptoms are so China being has its though it could control it so was they did get much news out but once it started spread badly they informed, them building hospitals in 10 days should have been clue how dangerous it is but the world mostly chose to ignore Even in Countries like US its been more than 2 months since first case and they are started get test kits like 2 weeks ago so when US with 3 months notice and 2 months since first case are where struggling for test kits you can imagine how difficult there it would be with closed approach And also if watch Pandemic TV series in netfix, you still note that they say new Pandemic is inevitable , its just mater of when and show how US some company is preparing for it, and even then when it came they are struggling You are absolutely wrong. The regime that rules CHina is a satanical criminal blood thirsty regime that would kill millions of its own to maintain iron handed control over the country. Mainland Chinese by and large are vile, deceptive, untrustworthy. This is an extremely selfish greedy and materialistic society. Mainland Chinese society is rotten to the core, with an unfounded almost laughable superiority complex. This is the same mentality that Japanese had at the time of WW2. Japanese today are the most civilized, kind and dignified society. A sea of change after WW2 drubbing. Chinese society needs similar overhaul Under_Score 1
motomaverick Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 12 hours ago, rangeelaraja said: You guys are underestimating the ANGER. This is a truly great country ( I mean Sam Chacha ka desh) . You cannot get away with taking innocent lives of this country without paying an unbearable price. China ki maa C&** jani chahiye. India for once should not take a neutral stance. $20 Trillion lawsuit www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/coronavirus-pandemic-us-advocacy-group-files-20-trillion-lawsuit-against-chinese-govt-5065281.html
MechEng Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 34 minutes ago, motomaverick said: $20 Trillion lawsuit www.moneycontrol.com/news/world/coronavirus-pandemic-us-advocacy-group-files-20-trillion-lawsuit-against-chinese-govt-5065281.html World war 3 ho jayega.
WC2011INDIA Posted March 24, 2020 Posted March 24, 2020 20 trillion? Lol. Sounds like post world war 1 penalties against Germany. You know what happened after that. If world leaders want war then sure go ahead.
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