Ankit_sharma03 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 NZ has been a team that has had an edge over us in World tournaments but can our ATG side can get over that as we have big names . ATG NZ XI Fleming Nathan astle Williamson Crowe Ross taylor Bmac Chris Cairns Vettori Hadlee Bond Boult 12th man - Jacob Oram Towards to end of his career oram played some devastating knocks and very very handy bowler ATG Ind XI Sachin Rohit Kohli Gambhir/Sehwag Yuvi Dhoni Kapil Dev Kumble Zak Shami/ Sir Jadeja Bumrah 12th man- Sir Jadeja Gambhir sehwag both have great numbers against Nz and both can be used as opener and sachin can be send in middle .Both can be an antidote to vettori in middle overs as well. Making Sehwag open can be risky against boult n bond so better keep him in middle for vettori . Since that one spot is not owned by anyone we can use it horses for courses type. Sri jadeja as 12th man coz he has done well against Nz- avg 46 against them with a s/r of 99 So Can our ATG team beat ATG NZ in a pressure game
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 Anything can happen in a one-off game but I'd back our ATG XI to win 6-7 games out of 10 against an ATG NZ XI. Gollum 1
Sandeep99 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 India are not winning anything outside Asia against Bond - Boult - Haldee. In Asia, we have the better spinners and will definitely dominate New Zealand. nevada and sandeep 2
Sooda Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Sandeep99 said: India are not winning anything outside Asia against Bond - Boult - Haldee. In Asia, we have the better spinners and will definitely dominate New Zealand. yep.
Stan AF Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 Are you talking about a series or an ICC Event knockout match?. What are we dealing with here? nevada 1
Ankit_sharma03 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stan AF said: Are you talking about a series or an ICC Event knockout match?. What are we dealing with here? Every scenario Pressure ICC knockout game - more importantly as they had an upper hand Multination Bilateral home conditions Neutral
zen Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) NZ has managed to beat other teams through a handful of players. If all or many of these play together in an AT11, it may have an edge .... Subcon fans overrate their players and teams It has an edge in fielding as a group. Hadlee and Bond can clean up the top order in most conditions. View overall figures [change view] Primary team India or New Zealand Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 100 and bowling average less than or equal to 28 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 7 of 7 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1973-1990 114 111 6110 3397 158 5/25 21.50 3.33 38.6 1 5 SE Bond (NZ) 2002-2010 73 71 3875 2866 128 6/19 22.39 4.43 30.2 5 4 C Pringle (NZ) 1990-1995 64 64 3314 2459 103 5/45 23.87 4.45 32.1 2 1 TA Boult (NZ) 2012-2020 79 79 4329 3716 146 7/34 25.45 5.15 29.6 7 5 EJ Chatfield (NZ) 1979-1989 112 110 5945 3545 139 5/34 25.50 3.57 42.7 3 1 Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 2013-2020 65 64 3293 3144 119 5/69 26.42 5.72 27.6 7 1 N Kapil Dev (INDIA) 1978-1994 214 210 10685 6664 241 5/43 27.65 3.74 44.3 3 On flat pitches, many NZ batsmen can be dangerous and it bats deep .... Also Indian bowlers do not tend to perform at such destructive levels: Edited April 10, 2020 by zen
Sandeep99 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) In fact I'd go on and say Hadlee-Bond-Boult would clean up all of the Indian ATG batsmen in all conditions and twice in pressure matches and outside Asia. They're just brutally brilliant. Just compare them to Indian bowlers in the list. Such a stark difference! Indian ATGs stand no chance against New Zealand ATGs in a nutshell. Edited April 10, 2020 by Sandeep99
Sandeep99 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, zen said: NZ has managed to beat other teams through a handful of players. If all or many of these play together in an AT11, it may have an edge .... Subcon fans overrate their players and teams Hadlee and Bond can clean up the top order in most conditions. View overall figures [change view] Primary team India or New Zealand Opposition team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies Type of bowler (by style) pace bowler Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 100 and bowling average less than or equal to 28 Ordered by bowling average (ascending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 7 of 7 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI Ave Econ SR 4 5 Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ) 1973-1990 114 111 6110 3397 158 5/25 21.50 3.33 38.6 1 5 SE Bond (NZ) 2002-2010 73 71 3875 2866 128 6/19 22.39 4.43 30.2 5 4 C Pringle (NZ) 1990-1995 64 64 3314 2459 103 5/45 23.87 4.45 32.1 2 1 TA Boult (NZ) 2012-2020 79 79 4329 3716 146 7/34 25.45 5.15 29.6 7 5 EJ Chatfield (NZ) 1979-1989 112 110 5945 3545 139 5/34 25.50 3.57 42.7 3 1 Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 2013-2020 65 64 3293 3144 119 5/69 26.42 5.72 27.6 7 1 N Kapil Dev (INDIA) 1978-1994 214 210 10685 6664 241 5/43 27.65 3.74 44.3 3 On flat pitches, most NZ batsmen can be dangerous .... No Indian bowler has performed to such levels: What a bowler! Such pure action and grace written all over. Alas, we haven't produced one such bowler in our entire history!
zen Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said: What a bowler! Such pure action and grace written all over. Alas, we haven't produced one such bowler in our entire history! Hadlee-Bond bowling combination is among the most dangerous of AT irrespective of the format Edited April 10, 2020 by zen
Ankit_sharma03 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Posted April 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said: In fact I'd go on and say Hadlee-Bond-Boult would clean up all of the Indian ATG batsmen in all conditions and twice in pressure matches and outside Asia. They're just brutally brilliant. Just compare them to Indian bowlers in the list. Such a stark difference! Indian ATGs stand no chance against New Zealand ATGs in a nutshell. One big factor would be their think tank - Fleming, williamson, Bmac on field all 3 very good captains. sandeep 1
Ankit_sharma03 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Posted April 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said: What a bowler! Such pure action and grace written all over. Alas, we haven't produced one such bowler in our entire history! If he has his day 95 % of time he will decide the outcome of the game Sandeep99 1
zen Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: One big factor would be their think tank - Fleming, williamson, Bmac on field all 3 very good captains. Also their godfather Martin Crowe who brought or optimized ideas such as attacking in PPs, opening with a spinner, etc., along with the ability to motivate the cricketers, in 92 WC.... one of the AT best displays of captaincy sandeep and Ankit_sharma03 2
Gollum Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 In SC we will dominate them In NZ and seam/swing friendly conditions of RSA/Eng they will dominate us On Eng/RSA pattas the likes of which we are seeing more often in recent past 55:45 in favor of India In Australia, WI (old) 60:40 in favor of India On two paced tracks (like WI in recent years or old Lanka) again a small edge to India Overall I agree with @Jimmy Cliff, I'd say 6/10 for India all things considered. In a combined XI there will be not more than 4 Kiwis but in these kind of H2Hs a different ball game. A special attribute of NZ is that they bring down the overall quality of play, force the opponent team to play at a worse level rather than outplaying them by brute force like Aussies or WI of old. Jimmy Cliff 1
zen Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) At neutral venues, NZ has beaten Ind more despite Ind going with, traditionally, a stronger team on paper more often than not View overall figures [change view] Primary team India or New Zealand Opposition team India or New Zealand Home or away neutral venue Totals in terms of batting team Ordered by matches won (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 2 of 2 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS New Zealand 1975-2019 33 16 15 0 2 1.066 26.11 4.30 33 288 118 India 1975-2019 33 15 16 0 2 0.937 26.00 4.33 32 279 88 Edited April 10, 2020 by zen
zen Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 Also NZ has beaten Ind in more KO games View overall figures [change view] Primary team India or New Zealand Opposition team India or New Zealand Home or away neutral venue Match type tournament finals or tournament cons. finals or tournament semi-finals or tournament quarter-finals or preliminary quarter-finals Totals in terms of batting team Ordered by matches won (descending) Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 2 of 2 First Previous Next Last Return to query menu Cleared query menu Overall figures Team Span Mat Won Lost Tied NR W/L Ave RPO Inns HS LS New Zealand 1985-2019 5 3 2 0 0 1.500 31.21 4.87 5 278 198 India 1985-2019 5 2 3 0 0 0.666 33.83 5.02 5 276 221
Jimmy Cliff Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, Gollum said: In SC we will dominate them In NZ and seam/swing friendly conditions of RSA/Eng they will dominate us On Eng/RSA pattas the likes of which we are seeing more often in recent past 55:45 in favor of India In Australia, WI (old) 60:40 in favor of India On two paced tracks (like WI in recent years or old Lanka) again a small edge to India Overall I agree with @Jimmy Cliff, I'd say 6/10 for India all things considered. In a combined XI there will be not more than 4 Kiwis but in these kind of H2Hs a different ball game. A special attribute of NZ is that they bring down the overall quality of play, force the opponent team to play at a worse level rather than outplaying them by brute force like Aussies or WI of old. Yep. Our pacers (Kapil/Bumrah/Shami) will do a lot more damage in seamer friendly conditions than their best spinners (Vettori & ???) in spinner friendly conditions. In relatively neutral conditions with not much help for bowlers our batting will overpower them more often than not. Gollum 1
zen Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Sandeep99 said: In fact I'd go on and say Hadlee-Bond-Boult would clean up all of the Indian ATG batsmen in all conditions and twice in pressure matches and outside Asia. They're just brutally brilliant. Just compare them to Indian bowlers in the list. Such a stark difference! Indian ATGs stand no chance against New Zealand ATGs in a nutshell. Hadlee is also super intelligent as can be seen below: Sandeep99 and sandeep 1 1
zen Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) Chances of AT11 ODI teams vs. India: Favorites against Ind: WI and Aus An edge over Ind: SA (a stronger bowling attack, fielding, ARs) and NZ (Hadlee-Bond combination, fielding, batting depth) On par or a batting shootout: Eng (mainly due to its 2019 team) Ind w/ an edge: Pak (pressure games) Ind as favorite: SL (SL could need guys like Jayasuriya to fire) and BD Edited April 10, 2020 by zen
Ankit_sharma03 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, zen said: Chances of AT11 ODI teams vs. India: Favorites against Ind: WI and Aus An edge over Ind: SA (a stronger bowling attack, fielding, ARs) and NZ (Hadlee-Bond combination, fielding, batting depth) On par or a batting shootout: Eng (mainly due to its 2019 team) Ind w/ an edge: Pak (pressure games) Ind as favorite: SL (SL could need guys like Jayasuriya to fire) and BD Will have threads against everyone. It ll be a good contest against every side for sure.
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