Can we combine the pace and bounce of Tyagi and Saini with the line and length bowling of Siraj and Shardul in the 4th test

[BacktoCricaddict]

You mean pick all of them? 

 

When I saw the title, I imagined combining them all into one bowler because that's what Bumrah is!!  

[Real McCoy]

4 pacers is an overkill. India are not the WI of 80s. Even Aus of today rarely go with 4 pacers. Also won't help our overrates

 

edit: calling shardul or natarajan as pacers is a bit too much. neither of them should play. if tyagi is not played, i would rather go with 2 spinners in ashwin and kuldeep

Edited January 12, 2021 by Real McCoy

[putrevus]

I don't want Indian fast bowling to be so dependent on on man Bumrah. You have to get more options. Having Bumrah is great but you need more fast bowlers. I really hope Rahane does not over bowl Siraj in last test. Rahane needs to understand fast bowlers need proper rotation  in their spells .They cannot be over bowled in one spell as they cannot recover for their other spell.

 

It is tempation for any captain to keep using their main bowlers but that will lead to injuries.

[sandeep]

14 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't want Indian fast bowling to be so dependent on on man Bumrah. You have to get more options. Having Bumrah is great but you need more fast bowlers. I really hope Rahane does not over bowl Siraj in last test. Rahane needs to understand fast bowlers need proper rotation  in their spells .They cannot be over bowled in one spell as they cannot recover for their other spell.

 

It is tempation for any captain to keep using their main bowlers but that will lead to injuries.

if we had Shami in the team and Bumrah out that would be not be as bad - problem is losing Boom after losing Shami and Ishant.  

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

if we had Shami in the team and Bumrah out that would be not be as bad - problem is losing Boom after losing Shami and Ishant.  

I know but this will give a guy like Tyagi a chance to make his mark. Sometimes greatness is discovered by accident.  Dhoni looked lost in two consecutive series after losing Zak in 2011 and Ishant in 2014. We don't need that to repeat ever again with any Indian captain. I don't think Dhoni had enough trust in his  fast bowlers.

 

Marnus came in as concussion sub and has not looked back.

Edited January 12, 2021 by putrevus

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Marnus came in as concussion sub and has not looked back.

Marnus had already had a promising debut in test cricket against India.  AND had spent almost a full season in County cricket scoring a mountain of runs.  

 

If there's a comparison, its not Tyagi.  Maybe Sundar - a guy who has consistently shown promise with the bat, and decent 'containing' ability with the ball?

 

I don't see Sundar as a test match calibre bowler though, at least not yet.  I rate him very highly and do want to see him play longform cricket 'A' tours etc.  But lets see..

 

 

[figo6762]

It’s doesn’t matter who plays pressure is on Australia to win . We need it make it as difficult for them as possible . They have a reputation to keep up ... goal will be is to frustrate them from ball one.... would rather have some one who would bowl line and length and a good fielder rather than one that sprays the ball around .... 

 

with the depleted squad , don’t think India can force a win , but we should make Australia give it away by frustrating them ... 

 

would love to see Karthik and shradul play.. run it in pucvoski head that he got hit ... Karthik also has a mean look which can piss em off .: 

[putrevus]

Just now, sandeep said:

Marnus had already had a promising debut in test cricket against India.  AND had spent almost a full season in County cricket scoring a mountain of runs.  

 

If there's a comparison, its not Tyagi.  Maybe Sundar - a guy who has consistently shown promise with the bat, and decent 'containing' ability with the ball?

 

I don't see Sundar as a test match calibre bowler though, at least not yet.  I rate him very highly and do want to see him play longform cricket 'A' tours etc.  But lets see..

 

 

 I was not comparing Tyagi to Marnus.Marnus was not first choice in that series. But after that innings his career has taken a different turn. 

 

 

Ashwin also was termed odi bowler but he turned out to be better test bowler than odi bowler.Same is the case with Jadeja. If Ashwin is unfit Sundar should make his debut.

[Real McCoy]

I just saw Kartik's record. He played one FC game for UP in late 2017 and the next one was in the drumoyne oval recently where he hit pucovski in the head. only 2 FC games and he is 20 now. Maybe some injuries on the way as shown in this article. But how come he played only one fc game for UP. Was it politics @express bowling@Rightarmfast@Mosher any insight?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/win-it-that-s-all-kartik-tyagi-dreams-big-after-star-turn-against-australia-1214775

 

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Real McCoy said:

I just saw Kartik's record. He played one FC game for UP in late 2017 and the next one was in the drumoyne oval recently where he hit pucovski in the head. only 2 FC games and he is 20 now. Maybe some injuries on the way as shown in this article. But how come he played only one fc game for UP. Was it politics @express bowling@Rightarmfast@Mosher any insight?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/win-it-that-s-all-kartik-tyagi-dreams-big-after-star-turn-against-australia-1214775

 

 

 

He plays for UP and they have so many pacers lined up.

 

Rajpoot, Shivam Mavi, Shubham Mavi etc.

 

Teenage pacers rarely get to play for state teams with good FC pacers.

 

Now that he is a big name ... he should get to play. 

[Real McCoy]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

He plays for UP and they have so many pacers lined up.

 

Rajpoot, Shivam Mavi, Shubham Mavi etc.

 

Teenage pacers rarely get to play for state teams with good FC pacers.

 

Now that he is a big name ... he should get to play. 

Maybe he should shift to other states or railways. We have a horrible rule that some guy cannot go to other state and play. If UP has more fast bowlers, they should move to other states. By the way Rajppot wasn't that impressive in terms of pace which tyagi has in abundance.

[maniac]

@express bowling bhai just because someone is not 140+, doesn’t make him a line and length bowler.

 

I have pointed this out before, Siraj reminds me of a right handed Amir who himself was a 135-140 k bowler. The shape he gets on the ball when he releases is what is his strength and he has a lot of skills. 
 

He actually bowls attacking lengths and that’s why when Green wanted to go after him he smacked those 6’s or why he struggles in LOI.

 

He is actually a very attacking bowler. In fact I will argue that someone like Bumrah is a lot more line and length than Siraj.

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

@express bowling bhai just because someone is not 140+, doesn’t make him a line and length bowler.

 

I have pointed this out before, Siraj reminds me of a right handed Amir who himself was a 135-140 k bowler. The shape he gets on the ball when he releases is what is his strength and he has a lot of skills. 
 

He actually bowls attacking lengths and that’s why when Green wanted to go after him he smacked those 6’s or why he struggles in LOI.

 

He is actually a very attacking bowler. In fact I will argue that someone like Bumrah is a lot more line and length than Siraj.

Duck me, in so many years this is the first post from you that's quality. 

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, maniac said:

@express bowling bhai just because someone is not 140+, doesn’t make him a line and length bowler.

 

 

I know that Maniac Bhai.  

 

I have pointed it out many times that lack of pace does not necessarily make someone more skilled 

 

 

Quote

 

I have pointed this out before, Siraj reminds me of a right handed Amir who himself was a 135-140 k bowler. The shape he gets on the ball when he releases is what is his strength and he has a lot of skills. 
 

He actually bowls attacking lengths and that’s why when Green wanted to go after him he smacked those 6’s or why he struggles in LOI.

 

He is actually a very attacking bowler. In fact I will argue that someone like Bumrah is a lot more line and length than Siraj.

 

 

If someone bowls an attacking line and length then it does not mean he is not a line and length bowler.

 

Line and length bowler means ... he is able to bowl the lines and lengths that he wants to,  be it attacking ones or defensive ones. It is a complement and not a negative term.

 

And Bumrah is a champion line and length bowler + a champion fast bowler.  A rare and priceless combo. I have actually outlined it in the first line of the OP. Check it again.

Edited January 12, 2021 by express bowling

[maniac]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

 

I know that Maniac Bhai.  

 

I have pointed it out many times that lack of pace does not necessarily make someone more skilled 

 

 

 

 

 

Or less :)

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, maniac said:

Or less :)

 

 

Lack of pace definitely makes an otherwise good pacer less skilled than a good quick pacer. Far less skilled actually as far as test matches are concerned.

 

Why ?

 

Because

 

A medium pacer's wicket taking deliveries in 5 day cricket are ....

 

1)   Channel balls that move away primarily and come in occasionally.

 

2)  Frequent indippers only if the ball is swinging consistently.

 

 

A good fast bowlers wicket taking deliveries in 5 day cricket can be ....

 

1)  Channel balls that move away primarily and come in occasionally

 

2)  Frequent indippers if the ball is swinging consistently.

 

3)  The quick and hostile bouncer

 

4)  The rising short of length quick snorter on off stump.

 

5) The skiddy quick stump directed indipper when he beats batsmen for pace.

 

6) The quick yorker.

 

 

 

A medium pacer does not have access to deliveries (3) to deliveries  (6).  So ... a lesser skillset is available to him compared to a good fast bowler and he is dependent a lot on movement to take wickets in test matches.

 

p.s -- 1)  I am comparing a good fast bowler with a good medium pacer. A bad fast bowler can be less skilful than a good medium pacer.

 

2)  In T20s ... a good medium pacer has an added weapon in the form of slower balls and can often be more skilful than a quick bowler 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

31 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Duck me, in so many years this is the first post from you that's quality. 

 

I think Maniac Bhai has incorrectly interpreted what I have meant by a line and length bowler.

 

I have meant it as a complement ... as one of the two basic parameters for good pace bowling ... and have clarified it in the post after his.

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I think Maniac Bhai has incorrectly interpreted what I have meant by a line and length bowler.

 

I have meant it as a complement ... as one of the two basic parameters for good pace bowling ... and have clarified it in the post after his.

I caught that from your subsequent exchange - but I just wanted to acknowledge that rare bit of quality in maniac's post - when you find the surprising nugget of gold in a massive pile of gobar....

 

48 minutes ago, maniac said:

The shape he gets on the ball when he releases is what is his strength and he has a lot of skills. 
 

He actually bowls attacking lengths and that’s why when Green wanted to go after him he smacked those 6’s or why he struggles in LOI.

 

He is actually a very attacking bowler. In fact I will argue that someone like Bumrah is a lot more line and length than Siraj.

 

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I caught that from your subsequent exchange - but I just wanted to acknowledge that rare bit of quality in maniac's post - when you find the surprising nugget of gold in a massive pile of gobar....

 

 

 

 

Ah come on  !    :  )

 

Both you and @maniac are two of the top posters on ICF.  Don't know about that Global Babaji though !   :  )

[sandeep]

30 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Ah come on  !    :  )

 

Both you and @maniac are two of the top posters on ICF.  Don't know about that Global Babaji though !   :  )

Don't consider myself 'top' anything.

 

Maniac definitely is right up there though as one of the most prolific in quantity if not quality