Ashwin needs to lift his game in this series

[zen]

In Jadeja's absence (not sure when he would be back), Ashwin needs to step up his game ... Over his career, he has been among Ind's least effective test spinners (among the top ones as listed below) overseas. However, in Ind, he makes use of the conditions well. 

 

Bowling averages 

 

 

Usually, I am more confident of Lyon, Bess, etc. outbowling him esp overseas. Can't just bank on helpful tracks most of the time.  From what I saw, I do not recall one ball in this test. Hope that he is able to lift his game from the 2nd innings onward and continue that form in this series

[Serpico]

Lyon didn't outbowl him after that 2012 series. Even in 2014, in the three tests ashwin played in, he outbowled Lyon. Same in 2018 and 2020 as well

[Serpico]

In the 10 matches both Ashwin and Lyon played in Australia, they have very similar record, with Ashwin having more workload and more wickets

 

 

[zen]

6 minutes ago, Serpico said:

Lyon didn't outbowl him after that 2012 series. Even in 2014, in the three tests ashwin played in, he outbowled Lyon. Same in 2018 and 2020 as well

 

FYI, Lyon has a better record outside Asia 

 

 

Host country Australia  or England  or New Zealand  or South Africa  or West Indies

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Type of bowler (by style) spin bowler

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 20

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
Saeed Ajmal (PAK)	2010-2013	8	14	372.0	78	964	40	6/42	11/111	24.10	2.59	55.8	4	2
Abdur Rehman (PAK)	2011-2011	4	8	222.4	68	486	20	4/65	6/75	24.30	2.18	66.8	0	0
KS Williamson (NZ)	2011-2021	61	49	237.3	35	784	26	4/44	4/44	30.15	3.30	54.8	0	0
KA Maharaj (SA)	2016-2021	28	50	892.5	172	2841	88	6/40	9/225	32.28	3.18	60.8	5	0
NM Lyon (AUS)	2011-2021	81	154	3347.4	678	9848	304	7/152	12/286	32.39	2.94	66.0	11	2
RJ Peterson (SA)	2012-2014	8	14	230.3	42	794	24	4/74	6/171	33.08	3.44	57.6	0	0
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH)	2010-2018	7	12	252.1	28	761	23	6/33	6/93	33.08	3.01	65.7	2	0
GP Swann (ENG)	2010-2013	35	64	1373.1	261	4238	128	6/65	10/132	33.10	3.08	64.3	8	1
S Shillingford (WI)	2010-2014	12	22	606.0	100	1798	54	6/49	10/93	33.29	2.96	67.3	4	2
RA Jadeja (INDIA)	2013-2021	16	28	610.4	121	1670	50	6/138	7/258	33.40	2.73	73.2	1	0
SJ Benn (WI)	2010-2015	12	21	666.3	135	1750	51	6/81	8/194	34.31	2.62	78.4	5	0
Harbhajan Singh (INDIA)	2010-2011	8	15	332.0	52	1010	28	7/120	7/195	36.07	3.04	71.1	1	0
MM Ali (ENG)	2014-2019	47	81	1334.2	208	4844	133	6/53	10/112	36.42	3.63	60.1	4	1
R Ashwin (INDIA)	2011-2021	24	41	1014.2	173	2921	80	7/83	7/121	36.51	2.87	76.0	2	0
RL Chase (WI)	2016-2020	27	35	626.5	77	2182	57	8/60	8/60	38.28	3.48	65.9	3	0
JP Duminy (SA)	2010-2017	26	32	234.2	22	816	21	4/47	4/51	38.85	3.48	66.9	0	0
MN Samuels (WI)	2011-2016	28	24	255.0	28	839	21	4/13	6/50	39.95	3.29	72.8	0	0
D Bishoo (WI)	2011-2018	20	32	680.0	104	2124	52	6/80	7/140	40.84	3.12	78.4	1	0
MJ Santner (NZ)	2015-2020	17	26	392.3	83	1042	25	3/53	4/90	41.68	2.65	94.2	0	0
HMRKB Herath (SL)	2011-2018	21	35	845.5	120	2436	57	5/79	9/128	42.73	2.88	89.0	2	0
Yasir Shah (PAK)	2016-2020	19	32	842.2	103	3083	71	7/94	10/141	43.42	3.66	71.1	5	1
MD Craig (NZ)	2014-2016	11	21	433.2	75	1646	35	4/53	8/188	47.02	3.79	74.2	0	0
DL Vettori (NZ)	2010-2012	11	20	490.3	125	1219	25	4/36	6/176	48.76	2.48	117.7	0	0
Imran Tahir (SA)	2011-2014	13	24	408.1	44	1529	31	3/55	5/160	49.32	3.74	79.0	0	0
JE Root (ENG)	2013-2020	83	75	412.2	91	1292	26	4/87	4/112	49.69	3.13	95.1	0	0

Edited February 7, 2021 by zen

[Serpico]

1 minute ago, zen said:

FYI, Lyon has a better record outside Asia

you removed Ashwin's home record but included Lyon's home, how is that a fair comparison. Remove Aus from that list and its pretty much same record, with Ashwin's slightly better

 

 

 

 

[zen]

9 minutes ago, Serpico said:

you removed Ashwin's home record but included Lyon's home, how is that a fair comparison. Remove Aus from that list and its pretty much same record, with Ashwin's slightly better

 

 

Is Aus not outside Asia? Does the surfaces there help spinners like in India? ... Also if you want to post stats, sort is based on averages after identifying the min # of wkts and/or games

 

PS Earlier you posted data of when both played in the same series, which is more applicable for players from the same team, and one player is bowling to a side which arguably plays spin better!  

Edited February 7, 2021 by zen

[Serpico]

1 minute ago, zen said:

Is Aus not outside Asia? Does the surfaces there help spinners like in India/Asia? ... Also if you want to post stats, sort is based on averages after identifying the min # of wkts and/or games

 

Earlier you posted data of when both played in the same series, which is more applicable for players from the same team, and one player is bowling to a side which arguably plays spin better!  

Does Ashwin get to bowl to Sri lanka and Pakistan in australia? All teams play better in their home conditions and falter in away conditions. When they play in England/NZ/WI/SA, they are bowling to home teams and hence more comparable.

 

My earlier post was reference to your claim that Lyon outbowls Ashwin, I showed that he didn't out bowl Ashwin when they played against each other

[Khota]

In this match he has done fine so far.

[zen]

1 minute ago, Serpico said:

Does Ashwin get to bowl to Sri lanka and Pakistan in australia? All teams play better in their home conditions and falter in away conditions. When they play in England/NZ/WI/SA, they are bowling to home teams and hence more comparable.

 

My earlier post was reference to your claim that Lyon outbowls Ashwin, I showed that he didn't out bowl Ashwin when they played against each other

 

My post is focused on conditions v all major sides. The topic is on Ashwin needing to pick up his game ... As for playing Pak or SL, which play spin well, in Aus, I am likely to pick Lyon over Ashwin as Ashwin' performances depend more on tracks 

[Serpico]

Just now, zen said:

 

My post is focused on conditions v all major sides. The topic is on Ashwin needing to pick up his game ... As for playing Pak or SL, which play spin well, in Aus, I am likely to pick Lyon over Ashwin as Ashwin' performances depend more on tracks 

Ashwin definitely needs to pick up the game, but so does Lyon. He is massively overrated with tags like goat when he is just as avg as ashwin in non helpful conditions

[zen]

37 minutes ago, Serpico said:

Ashwin definitely needs to pick up the game, but so does Lyon. He is massively overrated with tags like goat when he is just as avg as ashwin in non helpful conditions

 

I do not rate any of them as GOAT or whatever. B/w the two, I am more likely to feel confident with Lyon in the side in relatively unhelpful conditions 

 

PS the key point here is that Ashwin's strong area is bowling in Ind and, w/ WTC final place on the line, he needs to do much better in this series esp. since the team is missing a regular spinner as well 

Edited February 7, 2021 by zen

[coffee_rules]

He was working with genuine spinners in tandem like Jadeja. Nadeem and Sundar doesn’t enthuse to bowl good, he will try too many variations and fail

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, zen said:

 

I do not rate any of them as GOAT or whatever. B/w the two, I am more likely to feel confident with Lyon in the side in relatively unhelpful conditions 

 

PS the key point here is that Ashwin's strong area is bowling in Ind and, w/ WTC final place on the line, he needs to do much better in this series esp. since the team is missing a regular spinner as well 

Ashwin is better than both Lyon and Herath, man.

 

When he had to prove his worth in Australia, he did it a month ago. Averaged 28 when Lyon averaged 62 and that too in his own backyard.

 

As far as this series is concerned, just wait a bit. He bowled on relatively tougher conditions and was pretty economical with three wickets. This series has just started. Give him more time before concluding anything. But with Australia series, he already proved his worth.

 

I have no doubt he is the best test spinner of this generation and about same level to kumble.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Majestic

[IndianLegend]

He needs support. He is asked to bowl 50+ overs, contain runs and take wickets

 

Nadeem is releasing any pressure Ashton creates

[zen]

Ashwin bowled relatively well to the newbies but Roots smashed him so far on a day 4 pitch ... Needs to make the pitch count 

Edited February 8, 2021 by zen

[R!TTER]

12 hours ago, Khota said:

In this match he has done fine so far.

Just about, quota player was the biggest WTF selection for me!

[Khota]

Sometime back I was critical of Ashwin but this is a different Ashwin. He is making it count but Nadeem is not that bad either. He needs experience. 

 

Washington Sundar plays right into my theory that all rounders do not exist.

[Jimmy Cliff]

10 minutes ago, Khota said:

Sometime back I was critical of Ashwin but this is a different Ashwin. He is making it count but Nadeem is not that bad either. He needs experience. 

 

Washington Sundar plays right into my theory that all rounders do not exist.

 

Jaddu says hi to that theory .

[Real McCoy]

4 hours ago, zen said:

Ashwin bowled relatively well to the newbies but Roots smashed him so far on a day 4 pitch ... Needs to make the pitch count 

Root is a quality spin player and in the form of his life with runs in the SL series. Ashwin took 6 wickets but still you are on his case.

[Khota]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Jaddu says hi to that theory .

Jaddu is good and deserves it but a pure spinner with that level of experience will outperform him.