Hindu Hatred archive

[Mariyam]

@PunterLog

 

To add to my earlier point, condemnation on the internet is nothing but posturing.

It makes no difference to what an extremist thinks or how he acts. Its not as if the extremist is going to be swayed by a lengthy article written by a coreligionist on the internet.

 

As far as the actual fighting against extremism ( at a societal level)  is concerned, Muslims have been at it for a while.

Who filed and fought the TTT case from the beginning?

Who has filed numerous law suits against loudspeakers for azaan?

Which body has approached the courts challenging the parochial diktaats of the AIMPLB which doesn't want women in Dargahs?

 

And many such instances. There are people who've spent half of their lives on these issues. In my books they are the people who are actually fighting extremism best they can.

[PunterLog]

3 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@PunterLog

As far as condemnation goes, I think these acts have a fair bit of condemnation from Muslims too when articles of Hindu faith are mocked etc. Why would you think otherwise?

 

Because I don't see them atleast on Twitter.

 

When a Muslim boy gets a couple of slaps, I see 10,000 Indian Muslims posting about it. When I see a Nikita Tomar get shot in broad daylight, I barely see a dozen Muslims talking about it.

 

Quote

The incident of shooting that you've mentioned is a *crime*. Those guys will be sentenced, hopefully get the hangman's noose.

The sentencing is tomorrow, I hope they do.

Quote

Isn't it a given that everyone condemns a crime? OFCOURSE people condemn it.

Not really! Public condemnation matters. There's a saying in my native language which more or less means "Silence is half agreement". When Muslims stay silent without condemning crimes publicly, many people including myself see it as half-agreement.

Quote

You are speaking as if this sort of behaviour finds wide sanction among Muslims. That is simply not the case.

As long as there's no public condemnation, that's how non-Muslims will perceive.

 

I'll give an example

 

There are 7,000 comments on that tweet calling for making 4 Pakistans. How many Indian Muslims do you think condemned it? I couldn't see 1. So, I'll take it it that Indian Muslims want another partition.

[PunterLog]

1 minute ago, Mariyam said:

@PunterLog

 

To add to my earlier point, condemnation on the internet is nothing but posturing.

It makes no difference to what an extremist thinks or how he acts. Its not as if the extremist is going to be swayed by a lengthy article written by a coreligionist on the internet.

 

As far as the actual fighting against extremism ( at a societal level)  is concerned, Muslims have been at it for a while.

Who filed and fought the TTT case from the beginning?

Who has filed numerous law suits against loudspeakers for azaan?

Which body has approached the courts challenging the parochial diktaats of the AIMPLB which doesn't want women in Dargahs?

 

And many such instances. There are people who've spent half of their lives on these issues. In my books they are the people who are actually fighting extremism best they can.

I don't know about the bolded parts, I'll have to look them up.

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Digressing, but such data needs some transparency the bureaucracy. A lot of such needs filing RTIs in India.

In the absence of which, we just make conclusions of malice based on incomplete, piecemeal, anecdotal information?  Not going there.  

[coffee_rules]

4 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

In the absence of which, we just make conclusions of malice based on incomplete, piecemeal, anecdotal information?  Not going there.  

Like how this eminent journalist comes up with a narrative countrywide, based on two isolated incidents 

 

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

4 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Like how this eminent journalist comes up with a narrative countrywide, based on two isolated incidents 

 

 

 

And so, now, "the other side" must do the same?  Fight their isolated anecdotes with "my" isolated anecdotes?  This is exactly how conspiracy theories are created and perpetuated.  Be it about religion or science.   

Edited March 25, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

And so, now, "the other side" must do the same?  Fight their isolated anecdotes with "my" isolated anecdotes?  This is exactly how conspiracy theories are created and perpetuated.  Be it about religion or science.   

The OP and the posts here are not isolated incidents, but a methodical bias of governments, bureaucracy, media , judiciary coverage of Hindus in India. This narrative is absent totally while the reverse keeps getting peddled. If you are active reading media anc compare it to SM, MSM has been getting away with a lot of fake stories. Like Mariyam indicated Nikita case is a case of “crimes”. But those who have followed the story, such crimes are happening regularly in the Mewat area of 75% Muslims. Even secular HT has covered the problem with “crime” in the area. HT Accusations of police excesses where a al qaeda operative was captured, low literacy rate and highly underdeveloped area, etc it looks like a bomb ticking to be another Kashmir. So, we can’t pass this incident as a mere crime issue

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/in-mewat-govt-s-indifference-and-neglect-a-bigger-reality-than-crime/story-FaXR9hW7KNlqvSRpn0iAUL.html

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

The OP and the posts here are not isolated incidents, but a methodical bias of governments, bureaucracy, media , judiciary coverage of Hindus in India. This narrative is absent totally while the reverse keeps getting peddled. If you are active reading media anc compare it to SM, MSM has been getting away with a lot of fake stories. Like Mariyam indicated Nikita case is a case of “crimes”. But those who have followed the story, such crimes are happening regularly in the Mewat area of 75% Muslims. Even secular HT has covered the problem with “crime” in the area. HT Accusations of police excesses where a al qaeda operative was captured, low literacy rate and highly underdeveloped area, etc it looks like a bomb ticking to be another Kashmir. So, we can’t pass this incident as a mere crime issue

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/in-mewat-govt-s-indifference-and-neglect-a-bigger-reality-than-crime/story-FaXR9hW7KNlqvSRpn0iAUL.html

 

 

To me, the OP seemed like an opportunity to start a thread to document hate-acts against Hindus perpetrated by Muslims/Christians.  Most of these anecdotes come from SM feeds which, by their very nature, are anecdotal.  "The other side" probably has something like this on their forums.  I am still unclear of the purpose of these discussions:  Is it to show that there is an organized, coordinated, religious assault on Hindus by Muslims all over India?  

 

As for Mewat, the article says its surrounding areas are 75% Muslim.  You are saying that, just by the fact that they are Muslim majority, they are terror-centers.  HT says they are crime-prone because they are underdeveloped.  Why not try developing the area, taking out the "underdevelopment" angle and then seeing who is right?   

[coffee_rules]

4 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

To me, the OP seemed like an opportunity to start a thread to document hate-acts against Hindus perpetrated by Muslims/Christians.  Most of these anecdotes come from SM feeds which, by their very nature, are anecdotal.  "The other side" probably has something like this on their forums.  I am still unclear of the purpose of these discussions:  Is it to show that there is an organized, coordinated, religious assault on Hindus by Muslims all over India?  

 

As for Mewat, the article says its surrounding areas are 75% Muslim.  You are saying that, just by the fact that they are Muslim majority, they are terror-centers.  HT says they are crime-prone because they are underdeveloped.  Why not try developing the area, taking out the "underdevelopment" angle and then seeing who is right?   

it is anecdotal if there is a narrative set. These are real-life cases of bias in text books, history, media on a daily basis. How many times have you read in newspapers where they mask the perps religion and names, just not to hurt religious feelings? Two communities in clash, hurting one community, etc? Since this millennium, if there is a similar crime of a Hindu name on a minority victim, all names and religion is revealed, Hindu religion is shamed. We are called lynchistan, Rapistan, and what have you. 
 

If you are not convinced about the bias and want to hide behind stats and narrative, you are welcome to ignore this.

[BacktoCricaddict]

8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

it is anecdotal if there is a narrative set. These are real-life cases of bias in text books, history, media on a daily basis. How many times have you read in newspapers where they mask the perps religion and names, just not to hurt religious feelings? Two communities in clash, hurting one community, etc? Since this millennium, if there is a similar crime of a Hindu name on a minority victim, all names and religion is revealed, Hindu religion is shamed. We are called lynchistan, Rapistan, and what have you. 
 

If you are not convinced about the bias and want to hide behind stats and narrative, you are welcome to ignore this.

So, the real issue is that you feel the media defends Muslim perps but not Hindu perps.  It would be good to have some numbers to support that gut feeling.  

 

BTW, I don't have a narrative, have never had one.  And asking for stats is not "hiding," it is looking for proper context before jumping to conclusions about people's malintent.  

 

Assuming there is malintent from the media, what could the reason be?  Are they being controlled by the Muslim religious establishment?  Is it simply an anti-majority feeling?  

 

Added in edit:  Maybe I see it now.  What you see in the media, in your opinion, is pro-Islamic spin in the name of secularism.  

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Yoda-esque]

So, the real issue is that you feel the media defends Muslim perps but not Hindu perps.  It would be good to have some numbers to support that gut feeling.  
 
BTW, I don't have a narrative, have never had one.  And asking for stats is not "hiding," it is looking for proper context before jumping to conclusions about people's malintent.  
 
Assuming there is malintent from the media, what could the reason be?  Are they being controlled by the Muslim religious establishment?  Is it simply an anti-majority feeling?  
 
Added in edit:  Maybe I see it now.  What you see in the media, in your opinion, is pro-Islamic spin in the name of secularism.  
 

Please do one thing.

Search modi in google everyday and see how many articles come up in WaPo,bbc,guardian,atlantic,NYT.

That would answer your question.

[Yoda-esque]

Rubbish Kumar deathly silent on Bhainsa riots....

[PunterLog]

5 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

It would be good to have some numbers to support that gut feeling.  

 

Added in edit:  Maybe I see it now.  What you see in the media, in your opinion, is pro-Islamic spin in the name of secularism.  

 

I don't have numbers but can you explain what the logic is behind coverage like this? This isn't one example, you'll find the same sort of coverage in hundreds of cases.

 

The Hindu - This newspaper highlights the religion when the victim is Muslim but doesn't highlight the religion when the perpetrator is Muslim.

 

Hindustan Times - Again, highlights a Muslim boy being beaten but doesn't even write an article where a Muslim mob attacked an entire Dalit colony over an interfaith marriage.

 

Any moderately intelligent and unbiased human can see what's going on here.

[nikred]

I don't have numbers but can you explain what the logic is behind coverage like this? This isn't one example, you'll find the same sort of coverage in hundreds of cases.
 
The Hindu - This newspaper highlights the religion when the victim is Muslim but doesn't highlight the religion when the perpetrator is Muslim.
 
Hindustan Times - Again, highlights a Muslim boy being beaten but doesn't even write an article where a Muslim mob attacked an entire Dalit colony over an interfaith marriage.
 
Any moderately intelligent and unbiased human can see what's going on here.

This is almost like creating a dataset for future analysis where another "indiaspend" like organization will pull english articles with key words and come up with skewed graphics which shows high hindu oppression on minorities than the other way around.

I am surprised people don't see a problem with this when the whole lynchistan narrative is based on a big fat lie.

Sent from my SM-M315F using Tapatalk

[ravishingravi]

56 minutes ago, nikred said:

This is almost like creating a dataset for future analysis where another "indiaspend" like organization will pull english articles with key words and come up with skewed graphics which shows high hindu oppression on minorities than the other way around.

I am surprised people don't see a problem with this when the whole lynchistan narrative is based on a big fat lie.

Sent from my SM-M315F using Tapatalk
 

This is such an interesting perspective. I never looked at it that. 

[PunterLog]

1 hour ago, nikred said:

This is almost like creating a dataset for future analysis where another "indiaspend" like organization will pull english articles with key words and come up with skewed graphics which shows high hindu oppression on minorities than the other way around.

I am surprised people don't see a problem with this when the whole lynchistan narrative is based on a big fat lie.

Sent from my SM-M315F using Tapatalk
 

 

The entire left leaning English media is a cartel.

 

They do targetted coverage like this and International NGO's use them as sources to spread the fake narrative of India being hell for Muslims.

 

I'm telling you, if another partition ever happens, not a single leftist elite will be left alive in the aftermath.

Edited March 26, 2021 by PunterLog

[Alam_dar]

7 hours ago, PunterLog said:

 

 

The Hindu - This newspaper highlights the religion when the victim is Muslim but doesn't highlight the religion when the perpetrator is Muslim.

 

Hindustan Times - Again, highlights a Muslim boy being beaten but doesn't even write an article where a Muslim mob attacked an entire Dalit colony over an interfaith marriage.

 

Any moderately intelligent and unbiased human can see what's going on here.

 

 

Minorities always need some extra protection

 

Please try to understand this important point:

 

* If majority gets angered, then they could inflict heavy damage upon the minority. 

* But if minority gets angered, then they could do almost nothing against the majority. 

 

Due to this imbalance, it is always necessary to provide the minority some extra protection. 

 

Example: 

 

Pakistani gangs are involved in group rapes of young British girls in UK. 

Still UK press (and police) also tries to hide the identity to some extent, in order to avoid to enrage the majority against the Asians/Muslims/Foreigners. 

 

Therefore,  Indian Press is not alone, but all responsible societies indulge in this practice. 

 

 

Example:

 

 

This is One Way Traffic. 

Only Hindutva Extremists are in position of beating the Muslims and ask them to say Murdabad to Pakistan (i.e. blaming Indian Muslims to be traitor to India, and to be agents of Pakistan). 

The reverse is not true. 

 

Now Hindutva supporters will deny it and come up with some cases where Indian Muslims also indulged in crimes. But these tactics of Hindutva supporters is not going to help them while these are mostly "individual" crimes that occurred by individual Muslims.

Even if Indian Muslims as whole committed some crimes against Hindus, still their numbers are nothing as compared to the crimes by Hindutva supporters  ... i.e. Majority could inflict heavy damage upon the minority, while minority is almost never in position of inflicting damage to the majority. 

 

I have strong reservations when Majority starts claiming to be "MAZLOOM" (i.e. Oppressed). These were the same tactics which were used by Nazis against the Jewish minority. Such tactics always end up in GENOCIDE of the minorities. 

 

I have strong reservations when I see Muslims in Pakistan also present themselves as oppressed, and claiming that all others (Hindus and Jews and Western World) are involved in CONSPIRACIES against them. 

 

Right Wing Hindutva also have the same narrative i.e. Hindus as oppressed in India .... all Secularists (Left Wing) is doing CONSPIRACIES against the Hindus, thus they are the agents of the West/Muslims .... thus  whole Left is a traitor to India ... thus not only Indian Muslims, but also the Indian Left should be crushed. 

[PunterLog]

19 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

 

Minorities always need some extra protection

 

Please try to understand this important point:

 

* If majority gets angered, then they could inflict heavy damage upon the minority. 

* But if minority gets angered, then they could do almost nothing against the majority. 

 

Due to this imbalance, it is always necessary to provide the minority some extra protection. 

 

Example: 

 

Pakistani gangs are involved in group rapes of young British girls in UK. 

Still UK press (and police) also tries to hide the identity to some extent, in order to avoid to enrage the majority against the Asians/Muslims/Foreigners. 

 

Therefore,  Indian Press is not alone, but all responsible societies indulge in this practice. 

 

 

Example:

 

 

This is One Way Traffic. 

Only Hindutva Extremists are in position of beating the Muslims and ask them to say Murdabad to Pakistan (i.e. blaming Indian Muslims to be traitor to India, and to be agents of Pakistan). 

The reverse is not true. 

 

Now Hindutva supporters will deny it and come up with some cases where Indian Muslims also indulged in crimes. But these tactics of Hindutva supporters is not going to help them while these are mostly "individual" crimes that occurred by individual Muslims.

Even if Indian Muslims as whole committed some crimes against Hindus, still their numbers are nothing as compared to the crimes by Hindutva supporters  ... i.e. Majority could inflict heavy damage upon the minority, while minority is almost never in position of inflicting damage to the majority. 

 

I have strong reservations when Majority starts claiming to be "MAZLOOM" (i.e. Oppressed). These were the same tactics which were used by Nazis against the Jewish minority. Such tactics always end up in GENOCIDE of the minorities. 

 

I have strong reservations when I see Muslims in Pakistan also present themselves as oppressed, and claiming that all others (Hindus and Jews and Western World) are involved in CONSPIRACIES against them. 

 

Right Wing Hindutva also have the same narrative i.e. Hindus as oppressed in India .... all Secularists (Left Wing) is doing CONSPIRACIES against the Hindus, thus they are the agents of the West/Muslims .... thus  whole Left is a traitor to India ... thus not only Indian Muslims, but also the Indian Left should be crushed. 

 

I'll respond to this post tomorrow when I have some time. It'll take me too much time to respond to the many points you made.

 

In the mean time, can you name an Islamic country that follows these ideals of providing extra protection for minorities? If none of the Islamic countries provide extra protection for minorities, then they are absolute hypocrites to demand such protections when they live in a non-Islamic country.

[Alam_dar]

2 minutes ago, PunterLog said:

 

I'll respond to this post tomorrow when I have some time. It'll take me too much time to respond to the many points you made.

 

In the mean time, can you name an Islamic country that follows these ideals of providing extra protection for minorities? If none of the Islamic countries provide extra protection for minorities, then they are absolute hypocrites to demand such protections when they live in a non-Islamic country.

 

None of the Islamic countries provide such human rights protection to the minorities. Thus Islamic System should be abandoned in all the countries, and they should run under the Secular System, while it is only the Secular System which guarantees equal human rights for the minorities. 

 

I am absolutely against Islamic System in all the Islamic Countries. Islamic Sharia is the worst system in the present day world. Even democracy becomes evil under this Islamic System and thus democracy is being used by the Muslim majority to usurp the rights of the minorities (i.e. Islamic Iran is the prime example. along with Pakistan and all other Islamic countries). 

 

Problem is this the Indian Right wing try to defend their wrong-doings in name of Islamic System and Islamic countries. This behaviour is wrong while Islamic system is not the standard of the modern civilized society. You will always go downwards if you start comparing yourself to Islamic countries in order to claim your excellence. 

 

 

[PunterLog]

5 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

None of the Islamic countries provide such human rights protection to the minorities. Thus Islamic System should be abandoned in all the countries, and they should run under the Secular System, while it is only the Secular System which guarantees equal human rights for the minorities. 

 

I am absolutely against Islamic System in all the Islamic Countries. Islamic Sharia is the worst system in the present day world. Even democracy becomes evil under this Islamic System and thus democracy is being used by the Muslim majority to usurp the rights of the minorities (i.e. Islamic Iran is the prime example. along with Pakistan and all other Islamic countries). 

 

Problem is this the Indian Right wing try to defend their wrong-doings in name of Islamic System and Islamic countries. This behaviour is wrong while Islamic system is not the standard of the modern civilized society. You will always go downwards if you start comparing yourself to Islamic countries in order to claim your excellence. 

 

 

 

Ok, you aren't a hypocrite and you called a spade a spade when it comes to Islamic countries and their treatment of minorities.

 

There are many pockets in India where Muslims are a majority and their behavior is just as bad as in any Islamic country towards minorities. So, why shouldn't the majority do everything possible to stop that Islamic behavior from spreading to other parts?

 

What's the solution if the Hindu Right Wing believes that the Muslim population is incapable of being secular and hence the only choice is to crush them now or get crushed 3-4 generations down the line in the hands of Islamists?