We celebrate Ashwin for his home test dominance - but Rangana Herath for SL has been equally dominant ( if not better ) - Indian hype ?

[kohli]

9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Ashwin outperforming Herath in Sri Lanka and India both is not the only factor for him to be rated ahead of Herath. It is one of several other factors.

 

Ashwin also has an overall career better average and if you consider top 8 teams, Herath stats further go for the toss.

 

Herath is a SL great but Ashwin is a better bowler than him, has played more tougher games than him in his overall career and when you count his batting, he is a genuine ATG. 

Also herath away avg is 36

[ash]

Same reason why Lara, Sachin, Ponting etc are rated more than Chanderpaul, Kallis, Dravid etc. More than stats , the excitement the player brings defines his legacy. Watching Ashwin setup batsmen and bowl is a treat, I keep saying one more over , one more over and watch his entire spell. The Double bowled of Cook, Smith, Ollie Pope dismissalsare all similar to seeing a sachin straight drive or a Lara square cut. You don't get this from Herath or even Jaddu, Axar for that matter.

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

Your problem is you don’t see beyond raw numbers.

 

Yasir Shah has 5 man of the series award in a mere 45 test matches.  Kumble has only 4 in 132 test matches. That must make Yasir Shah a better bowler according to your logic.

 

For the millionth time Nobody is taking anything away from Ashwin who is an ATG bowler for us. 

 

I am just putting things in perspective - the truely great bowlers are frontline bowlers in all conditions across the world. 

 

Ashwin is NOT in that class - he can keep filling up his boots at home.

 

No spinner has been good in all conditions. Every spinner in history post 1970 has some holes in their stats.  You are basically making no point. Herath definitely is one of the match winner for SL.  You possibly bring up this comparison at the worst possible time. He literally saved a test with his batting in Australia only recently. He also bowled brilliantly in Australia. Had smith in all sorts of trouble in the first test. Now a man of the series to go with.  He is probably the guy most deserving the hype now after Rishab Pant. It is easy for noobs to start a good career. L Siva, Hirwani, Mendis all started well. Where did they go after that?  Herath doesn't even play IPL. Ashwin has been one of the most important IPL player.  People know his bowling inside out. He has to keep coming up with new ideas, new strategies to keep.  This is not the era where you mainly play Tests and ODIs.

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, ash said:

Same reason why Lara, Sachin, Ponting etc are rated more than Chanderpaul, Kallis, Dravid etc. More than stats , the excitement the player brings defines his legacy. Watching Ashwin setup batsmen and bowl is a treat, I keep saying one more over , one more over and watch his entire spell. The Double bowled of Cook, Smith, Ollie Pope dismissalsare all similar to seeing a sachin straight drive or a Lara square cut. You don't get this from Herath or even Jaddu, Axar for that matter.

Exactly.  Bowlers like Jaddu/Axar rely on natural variations pitch offers. Those two dismissals from ollie pope involved a lot of skill. The one dismissal that got Amla was called T20 ball of the history by Adam Gilchrist.   

 

[putrevus]

Herath is a pocket marvel. For guy his size, he literally carried a weak SL team on his back.He is the best left arm spinner in history for all his variations.

[zen]

14 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

Exactly !!!! You hit the nail on the head my friend. 

 

The moment a bowler  ( doesn't matter spinner / fast bowler/ medium pacer  ) etc...is seen as 2nd class bowler by his own captain in another country's soil - immediately i will apply many asterix to that bowlers greatness.

 

Did Australia ever treat Glenn Mcgrath as second class bowler in Asian conditions which favor spinners. Hell no. He has infact performed superbly in India as a frontline bowler even in Indian conditions.

 

Did Australia ever treat Shane Warne as a second class bowler in South African and NZ conditions  that are not friendly for spinner ?. Hell no.

Shane Warne's numbers on the seaming pitches in South Africa and NZ are better than most fast bowlers ( avg in early 20's ) 

 

This is called greatness.

 

Beyond the mindless brainless hyping where you fill in your shoes on home tracks and are a 2nd class bowler outside your home shores for most of your career.

 

Thats not greatness. 

 

And here we have people saying how great is he ...fastest 200 , 300, etc etc. 

 

Difference between people who understand cricket and who don't.

Forget about winning games, Ashwin’s bad bowling has cost Ind games overseas ... One e.g. is in the 3rd inning of the test in Eng (where Mooen out bowled him and Ind opened with him in that inning) - Scorecard

 

A failure in Sydney, where spinners do well - Scorecard ... Good to be replaced by Sundar at Gabba as had Ashwin played, Ind may not have won there 

 

At home, the recent Chennai 1st inning 1st has been discussed 

Edited March 9, 2021 by zen

[Vijy]

HTBs play an important role in cricket too. No need to overhype ashwin, but one can realistic about what he has achieved - one of our greatest matchwinners in home track conditions. has played a big role in our 25-2 dominance over the past few yrs. obviously with jaddu alongside him, who has been even better (with bat, ball and fielding). this is a good era to be a fan of HTB bowlers. sadly, we have lost our long tradition of HTB batsmen - sehwag, azhar, vishy, etc.

[Majestic]

20 hours ago, zen said:

Forget about winning games, Ashwin’s bad bowling has cost Ind games overseas ... One e.g. is in the 3rd inning of the test in Eng (where Mooen out bowled him and Ind opened with him in that inning) - Scorecard

 

A failure in Sydney, where spinners do well - Scorecard ... Good to be replaced by Sundar at Gabba as had Ashwin played, Ind may not have won there 

 

At home, the recent Chennai 1st inning 1st has been discussed 

He was good in Chennai 1st test unlike Shahbaz Nadeem who was leaking runs from other end. Took fifer in second inning.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Majestic